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<bitblit1>
<aeth> "But now you win because now..." <- aeth: Ah, now that makes sense
<bitblit1>
random-nick: aeth Thanks. I totally agree. Will do that now.
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<loke_>
jackdaniel: are you around?
<loke_>
jackdaniel: I'm trying to get climaxima back up with the latest version of mcclim and maxima, and I suffered a regression at McCLIM commit: d04aef1a194ea2129e07d829b656d40d80f505a5
<loke_>
I need to understand what the change does in order to figure out how to solve the issue.
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<loke[m]>
There, got the matrix channel to work properly.
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<jackdaniel>
loke[m]: I willbe in 30m
<jackdaniel>
did you see my question on #clim re bidi?
<loke[m]>
jackdaniel: sorry, no. I've been busy with a million things for the last several months.
<jackdaniel>
it was a day or two ago
<loke[m]>
jackdaniel: It does ring a bell. It may have passed by my screen, but I didn't pay much attention. Sorry.
<loke[m]>
What was it about?
<jackdaniel>
the function you have ported seems to return strings in reverse order
<loke[m]>
Which one?
<jackdaniel>
btw bidi and vertical text are coming to mcclim soon(tm)
<loke[m]>
Oh, you mean the one that extracts rtl runs?
<jackdaniel>
in the system mcclim-bidi,the only exported function.
<jackdaniel>
yes
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<loke[m]>
I did not know it was broken. When I used it, it worked fine. But I may have used it backwards. :-)
<jackdaniel>
I've started using the computer now, so I'll see to the commit you've asked about. perhaps we should move to #clim
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<jackdaniel>
loke[m]: I've answered there
<loke[m]>
jackdaniel: I see.
<loke[m]>
That result looks good to me.
<loke[m]>
I presume your concern is that "daniel" comes last?
<jackdaniel>
yes, and note that the second argument is NIL, so it is computing the line that goes from left to right
<loke[m]>
Oh right. It appears it's always in rtl context.
<loke[m]>
Let me see.
<jackdaniel>
well, not really! if you pass the r2l-context then the output is different
<jackdaniel>
it looks to me as if the list simply needs nreverse
<jackdaniel>
but I've wanted to ask the person who may know the first thing about bidi :)
<loke[m]>
I'm testing with this: `(mcclim-bidi:directions "This is a test. في هذا اليوم. Another string." nil)`
<loke[m]>
If you change NIL to T, it returns the same thing.
<loke[m]>
Clearly a bug.
<jackdaniel>
with the string I've proposed I have different results
<loke[m]>
Yeah. But it does mean the issue is deeper than just reversing.
<loke[m]>
I'm looking at the code now.
<jackdaniel>
I see. Thanks for looking into it.
<jackdaniel>
I've figured out what we should do wrt vertical scripts mixed with bidi :)
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<loke[m]>
jackdaniel: there's something weird going on. I'm stepping through it.
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<loke[m]>
But I have to go to my kid's school for a bit. I'll continue after.
<jackdaniel>
OK, keep me posted :) thanks
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<loke[m]>
jackdaniel: OK, I was tricked by my test strings.
<loke[m]>
jackdaniel: You're definitely right. You can just `NREVERSE` the list `RESULT` at the end of `DIRECTIONS`
<loke[m]>
s/`/`./
<loke[m]>
(sorry for the markup, I forgot I'm using an IRC channel)
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<loke[m]>
There is room to optimise this code to use arrays instead of lists as well.
<loke[m]>
There are a set of functions which accept and returns lists of symbols, where the list is always the same size as the string. We can gain a lot of speed by changing it to an array and modifying it in place.
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<jackdaniel>
thanks for confirming this. for now I want to get the abstraction right
<jackdaniel>
because there are a few moving parts: there is a page direction, a line direction and finally the text direction that may vary within the line
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<jackdaniel>
page and line direction are the compositor things while the individual fragment of text direction should be handled by the renderer
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<jcowan>
It shows images of Arabic text in a Mongolian matrix where the Arabic text has been rotated either counter-clockwise (read down, like the Mongolian) or clockwise (read up).
<jcowan>
There is also a neat example of English text reading upwards at the left edge of a table, but with embedded Chinese that is read downwards (in the normal direction for Chinese), thus requiring the bidi algorithm even though both English and Chinese are LTR when horizontal.
<jcowan>
"There simply is no traditional Japanese method of setting Devanagari text."
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<pjb>
jcowan: magnific pdf there…
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<gendl__>
(this format statement is from cl-pdf by the way, I'm setting up regression pipeline testing which includes some PDF output and trying to get the same input to yield identical output on all three of these impls)
<gendl__>
it seems CCL is prepending an extra space of padding - it feels like internally it's treating the -0.0 as 0.0 and not counting the `-` as a character.
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<gendl__>
As far as I understand, the Allegro CL output is compliant - implementations are allowed for format `-0.0` as `0.0` -- Allegro does this, and prepends 5 spaces as does CCL, but in the case of Allegro the 5 spaces prepended appears correct because the `-` is not there.
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<semz>
~8f is explicitly supposed to always output 8 characters, so CCL is definitely wrong here
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<gendl__>
Are there any printer parameters or format directives to make it always include, or always suppress, the `-` ?
<semz>
(well, always*, since it can output more if it's impossible to fit the value in there. but this isn't the case here)
<gendl__>
In order to get my regression tests working with currently existing CCL (and with Allegro CL and SBCL, which both appear compliant but are giving different outputs) I think I will have to pre-process my test data to replace the `" -0.0"` or `" -0.0"` or `" 0.0"` with a normalized string e.g. `" 0.0"` (i.e. normalize on the Allegro version). So I'll need a regular expression which matches those three strings
<gendl__>
but is unlikely to match other strings in my output. ChatGPT suggests `^\s*[-0\.]+0$`
<gendl__>
i'll test that, but at first glance it looks like it will miss `" 0.0"` (maybe that doesnt' matter because i'm normalizing to that anyway)
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<semz>
~@f will always print the sign
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<gendl__>
semz: thanks, ah, I see it will print either `-` or `+`. Good to know. In this case, the format code in question is in the cl-pdf library, so I don't have direct control over that nor would I ask the cl-pdf maintainers to change anything just for this reason. But the regexp provided by chatGPT does match all 3 variants, so i'll just run the seed data and my test output through a replace-regexp, before comparing.
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<gendl__>
and the issue appears to be captured already in this CCL issue: https://github.com/Clozure/ccl/issues/406. CK-DE provided a long test case for formatting floats with ~f. SBCL and Lispworks appear compliant. I'll comment on that issue with Allegro output for the given test suite.
<ixelp>
Numerous incorrect printings of floating point numbers with FORMAT directive ~F · Issue #406 · Clozure/ccl · GitHub
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<jackdaniel>
jcowan: I have not seen this article, thanks!
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<jackdaniel>
regarding clockwise/counter-clockwise render I'm aware of that, that basically comes with the fact that vertical page may go left-to-right (lines), or right-to-left
<jackdaniel>
there is also that thing called "full width character" which is not rotated
<jcowan>
Mongolian however always goes left to right, and still Arabic can be embedded in it either way.
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<beach>
The dictionary entry for the declaration OPTIMIZE says that the consequences are unspecified if a quality appears more than once with different values. But what if such a quality appears once in each of two different consecutive declarations in the same form?
<beach>
Also, a (nother) WSCL issue: The dictionary entry for the declaration DECLARATION uses the term "declaration name", but I think it should be "declaration identifier". No?
<beach>
The dictionary entry for the declaration TYPE also uses "name of a declaration" and "declaration name".
<jcowan>
beach: I don't think consecutiveness matters, so presumably the later declaration wins; the effective scope of the earlier declaration just happens to be empty.
<Bike>
not sure i like the idea of saying declarations have any order whatsoever.
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<beach>
I tend to agree.
<jcowan>
So you are saying the scope of a global declaration is the whole program, or the current file, or what?
<beach>
I wasn't thinking of proclamations here, but declarations.
<beach>
It would make sense to respect the order of proclamations.
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<jcowan>
Proclamations are defined as global declarations, so by "declarations" here you mean local declarations?
<jcowan>
Unfortunately 3.3.4 is silent as to the scope of declarations that aren't bindings, unless I am misreading it.
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