<cpli>
_death "evokes a stronger sense of opportunity to re-factor" sounds to me that the code ought to be written differently in the first place
<jackdaniel>
there is some kind of a paradox with refactoring that sometimes the result looks better but works worse (or is harder to maintain)
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<cpli>
jackdaniel: that's not paradoxical, refactoring is nothing other than "changes to code in the pursuit of elegance whilst preserving behavior"
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<cpli>
in the end whether or not those changes are or are not achieving the set out goal depends on the changes and the person making those changes
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<jackdaniel>
I'd advise you to not make overconfident (and incorrect) claims, otherwise people will take you for an AI
<splittist>
"person" - how last year
<cpli>
jackdaniel: wait, what's blatantly incorrect here
<jackdaniel>
refactoring may have number of purposes, one of them is to make the program more performant
<jackdaniel>
or to make it easier to modify, remove bit rot and much much more
<cpli>
conflating "refactoring" with "optimization" makes "refactoring" ultimately meaningless
<jackdaniel>
saying that it is _nothing other_ than aesthetics excercise is blatantly incorrect (alothough sometimes aesthetics is the reason for doing that)
<cpli>
if you speak of "optimizations" then speak of "optimizations"
<jackdaniel>
see? again I'm not sure whether I'm arguing with AI or a person ;)
<cpli>
good lord, if i ask you to use concise language you accuse me of being an AI, genuinely?
<splittist>
let's retcon "elegance" to include "performance optimization" and celebrate our agreement
<jackdaniel>
I'm joking with the AI part, but read up on what refactoring is
<jackdaniel>
(instead of pushing harder with defense)
<hayley>
Elegance is subjective. Look ma, no branches.
<cpli>
^
<cpli>
that was ultimately my argument in the first place
<jackdaniel>
yup, this article is a good startd - have fun reading !
<cpli>
it's not paradoxical that with arbitrary subjective changes, refactors may make things "work worse (or harder to maintain)"
<jackdaniel>
yes, I concede that it is not bona fide paradox
<hayley>
I mean, bit-shuffling hacks can very well be elegant.
<cpli>
jackdaniel: false. it is a veridical paradox, if your assumption is that refactors ought to make code more readable
<jackdaniel>
I have not assumed that refactors ought to make code more readable
<cpli>
> there is some kind of a paradox with refactoring that sometimes the result looks better but works worse (or is harder to maintain)
<cpli>
wait, what were you even trying to say with this then?
<jackdaniel>
keywords: sometimes, but, or
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<jackdaniel>
let's put an end to it, I see that you are pissed by me calling you out and nothing good comes from that. and we both have better things to do
<cpli>
alright, sometimes things fall up or sideways, but only when standing upside down or laying on your side.
<Equill>
This isn't what I needed to hear. Waiting until next week to book, because then my wife and I will both have our new residence cards. At this rate, I may have to attend online :(
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<Equill>
splittist: you don't want to stay in a 12-bed dorm. It's Amsterdam, so you'll get a mix of students and pot-heads in there.
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<Equill>
Haarlem's nice, and not far away. Worth a try, though it may not be much cheaper than AMS itself.
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<splittist>
I have booked, but this discussion will be useful for others I'm sure. (Not in the 12-bed dorm with the botanical tourists, I assure you.)
<Equill>
"Botanical tourists" - that's a much more polite term. I'll remember that for future use.
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<LW>
hello, is anyone else using vim with vlime? The last quicklisp update broke it on my machine. Had to sync quicklisp back to a late 2022 snapshot. I thought maybe someone hat a similar experience and investigated it furhter?
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<waleee>
LW: there was also a port to a lua-extension on neovim, https://github.com/monkoose/nvlime , which I found in a old.reddit.com/r/common_lisp thread
<ixelp>
GitHub - monkoose/nvlime: A Common Lisp development environment for Neovim
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<LW>
waleee: Oh, cool thanks! I will look into it.
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