<jackdaniel>
I see that you've also implemented the 'minor shit' (220d582) congrats!
<hayley>
Lacking the "Updating: very very minorly" though.
<Shinmera>
Listen
<Equill>
However, I love the "Whoops" commit.
<jackdaniel>
squash it and name the commit "yolo"
<Equill>
Ooh, I need to do that at some point. I mean, squashing is a routine thing before merging, but sometimes it just ramifies a little too far for a coherent commit message.
<jackdaniel>
I think that the most important commit is "Make it work." (but "So many improvements and fixes my god" is a good contender)
<Equill>
Speaking of progress, I just finished overhauling the way relationships are defined. That's what I get for looking into alternative approaches after the fact.
<Shinmera>
Still no author notification from ELS. I can't say I'm not miffed about that. I'd like to know if I need to make a presentation already.
<beach>
Make the presentation anyway. You will likely need it at some point.
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<loke[m]>
Before COVID happened I had this idea to set up a small Lisp thing in Singapore.
<beach>
"thing"?
<Equill>
loke: what would the thing be doing?
<loke[m]>
beach: Yeah, don't know what to call it. You were suggesting a small conference, I was originally thinkin g more in terms of "meetup".
<loke[m]>
s/thinkin/thinking/, s/g//
<loke[m]>
But I guess it needs to be a conference if I want to be able to get people to come here from overseas.
<hayley>
Offline Lisp Meeting
<splittist>
SLUGCON - Singapore Lisp Users Group Convention
<splittist>
slugfest?
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<beach>
The use of "CON" in English-language meeting-related vocabulary is very unfortunate in French.
<beach>
Like "EuroCON", would mean a very stupid European.
<loke[m]>
MEET is better
<loke[m]>
What is the minimum number of participants for a Lisp mneet to be considered successful (where successful means "not a waste of time to attend")
<loke[m]>
s/mneet/meet/
<hayley>
The last meaning I heard (starts with c- in English) would fit with the Australian lexicon.
<jackdaniel>
lexicon - a very stupid lexi in french ,)
<splittist>
loke[m]: for local or folks flying in?
<splittist>
s/local/locals/
<loke[m]>
splittist: For folks flying in.
<splittist>
very impressionistically, a couple dozen?
<beach>
Yeah.
<jcowan>
loke[m]: Two
<beach>
loke[m]: But it is going to be tricky to get people to come, given the distances involved.
<loke[m]>
beach: Yeah. Sadly.
<beach>
loke[m]: Europe is very densely populated with lots of Lispers within a reasonable range. My experience from Australasia is that there are very few Lispers, so you would have to count on long-distance participants.
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<loke[m]>
Yes, that is indeed true.
<splittist>
EUR/USD 600 round trip from Tokyo (albeit 7 hrs each way)...
<loke[m]>
splittist: that's pretty cheap.
<splittist>
On a low cost airline (:
<loke[m]>
Which airlive?
<loke[m]>
Airline
<jackdaniel>
you are attached with a string to a plane
<jackdaniel>
that's why it is /air/ /line/
<beach>
Oh, and some people will no longer take a flight, so those are out.
<splittist>
loke[m]: Scoot. JAL closer to 1k
<loke[m]>
beach: Oh?
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<beach>
loke[m]: Yes, heisig for instance. Also Martin Simmons, but he hasn't been to ELS recently anyway.
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<splittist>
For all we know there are thousands of lispers in the Jakarta automotive industry where the whole supply chain is run on code ported from old Symbolics boxes.
<splittist>
People with niche travel preferences can take the Transiberian to Vladivostok and a tramp steamer down the coast.
<jcowan>
Or vice versa
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<loke[m]>
beach: Wouldn't you want to visit Singapore even without a conference? :-)
<Equill>
I'm holding out for the new wave of airships.
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<jcowan>
in the alternative, the new wave of goats
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<loke[m]>
splittist: really?
<mariari>
Australia is rather far from Asia sadly (where I live)
<Equill>
On a serious note, if I still lived in Sydney I'd definitely consider a trip to Singapore for that conference. From Madrid, though, I'd need a really compelling reason. As fun as it was to get chewed on by a flying fox last time, I don't currently have a business to charge it to.
<splittist>
loke[m]: no - I'm just saying we don't know who uses lisp where, how and why. There's no reason why everyone who uses it would be on irc. And back in the days of ILC there were all sorts of folks who turned out be using lisp.
<loke[m]>
Oh I see.
<loke[m]>
mariari: Where do you live?
<mariari>
I live in Taiwan
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<loke[m]>
Sounds nice. I've never been there.
<mariari>
it's quite a nice country
<loke[m]>
I'd like to go there for some mountain biking.
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<beach>
loke[m]: Good question. I haven't thought about it.
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<kagev>
well ... I guess I can search for that ansewr ...
<beach>
kagev: It used to be organized by ALU, the Association of Lisp Users. But I think that organization is dormant.
<beach>
I attended it in San Francisco and in Montreal. Perhaps in some other place as well, I can't remember.
<kagev>
I see ... found a site announcing it to be held in Kyoto Japan (back in 2012)
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<splittist>
kagev: what they said
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<NotThatRPG>
ILC was very fun: I went to it in Cambridge, MA and Reno, NV. There was one more after that, but none sinse
<NotThatRPG>
s/sinse/since/
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<NotThatRPG>
Shinmera: ping?
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<Shinmera>
?
<jackdaniel>
minion: what is ping-pong?
<minion>
maybe you need to ask my master, chandler - he knows a lot
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<NotThatRPG>
Shinmera: I've been finding some problems with repeatability in random-state...
<NotThatRPG>
Posted a PR and an issue. Wondering if you could have a peek; I have a proposed fix, but I'm not sure it's legit
<Shinmera>
You don't need to ping me for that stuff, I get emails and respond when I can.
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<NotThatRPG>
Shinmera: OK.
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<NotThatRPG>
One question, though: I have been running a relatively modest number of tests on each of the generators (which involves copying the generators for repeatability). I'm seeing SBCL give heap exhausted errors when I do this. Is there any reason this should be memory leaking?
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<NotThatRPG>
num-generators * 3 * 2 as far as I can tell
<NotThatRPG>
Do generators need to be explicitly deleted?
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<NotThatRPG>
Trying to test random-state, I go from Dynamic space usage is: 91,911,680 bytes. to Dynamic space usage is: 522,143,632 bytes. and error out.
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<Shinmera>
It doesn't do any CFFI, so, not to my knowledge.
<NotThatRPG>
It looks like the resources are being sucked up by KISS11. When I drop that from my test suite, the test-suite runs to completion (but repeatability tests all fail).
<NotThatRPG>
I'll verify and then update my notes.
<NotThatRPG>
Yes, it's KISS11
<Bike>
i just did a quick test locally, and it looks like some of the generators do copy enough - the dumb lcg and middle-square. mersenne 64 and 32 do seem to have a problem, though. are you seeing it fail on all generators?
<Bike>
squirrel and tt800 also seem ok, but not rc4
<NotThatRPG>
Bike: Now only MERSENNE-TWISTER (32 and 64) and RC4 are failing.
<NotThatRPG>
That's good -- I can replace my use of :MERSENNE-TWISTER for now.
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<NotThatRPG>
I will stick to SQUIRREL for now.
* NotThatRPG
wishes FIVEAM had an XFAIL...
<Bike>
it looks like the copy method on mersenne only does a shallow copy of the generator structure rather than actually copying the underlying arrays
<NotThatRPG>
Using CL:*RANDOM-STATE* caused errors for me in RANDOM-STATE on SBCL. I had to replace it with a new global as default value for RANDOM's GENERATOR argument
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<NotThatRPG>
I have a fork with these fixes and PR for upstream
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<NotThatRPG>
On SBCL, is it possible to extract the file causing the warning from a compiler warning? I'd really love to be able to quash style-warnings from a known-bad upstream library.
<NotThatRPG>
I have a case where I'm getting a compiler warning about a file with a compiler macro -- a call to the function was compiled before the call to the compiler macro. AFAICT there is no algorithm for me to find the call that should be moved or marked as notinline. So I would like to just shush this *specific* warning
<edwlan[m]>
One other option is to bind muffle-warnings to a handler that matches a satisfied type
<edwlan[m]>
Which looks at the message
<edwlan[m]>
You could probably also use a satisfies-type that checks the compile file pathname special variable
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<NotThatRPG>
edwlan[m]: Ah! compile-file pathname is what I want. Thank you so much!
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