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<random-jellyfish>
"The function COMMON-LISP-USER::MACROEXPAND-ALL is undefined." in SBCL
<random-jellyfish>
slime shows it in autocomplete
<random-jellyfish>
why can't I use it?
<beach>
Did you try (apropos "macroexpand-all")?
<beach>
The output shows where it is fbound.
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<random-jellyfish>
sb-cltl2:macroexpand-all seems to work, thanks
<beach>
Sure.
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<selwynning>
hello everyone
<selwynning>
i am preparing an els submission and wondered if anyone has advice to increase the chances of it being successful
<beach>
It has to be original to start with.
<beach>
Then, since it is an academic conference, you have to compare what you did to what was done before.
<beach>
Your work should have some advantage of similar works in the past.
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<beach>
selwynning: Does that make sense? What is your paper about?
<selwynning>
it will be an experience report concerning the use of common lisp in quantum computing
<beach>
I see.
<selwynning>
thanks for the comments. it is certainly original but unlike most previous submissions i would say
<beach>
selwynning: When I have submitted papers in the past, I always posted them here so that I could get feedback from the community.
<selwynning>
right
<beach>
You have to compare your work not only to previous ELS submissions, but to work in the past that appeared elsewhere.
<beach>
Like in this case, perhaps you need to compare the use of Common Lisp in quantum computing to the use of other languages in the same domain.
<beach>
I mention that as an example, not because I know the domain. So I could be wrong.
<selwynning>
i do make that comparison, though i am not aware of equivalent case studies in other languages
<random-jellyfish>
ELS = European Lisp Symposium?
<selwynning>
so i don't cite relevant literature in that instance
<beach>
selwynning: I see.
<beach>
random-jellyfish: Yes, the only active Lisp conference at the moment.
<selwynning>
it is admittedly a weak part of the paper, though i don't see a way to remedy the situation
<selwynning>
scientists often don't talk about the tools that they use
<random-jellyfish>
I don't think I'll finish my hdl simulator in time to submit it
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<random-jellyfish>
maybe next year
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<an_origamian[m]>
What language does the HDL simulator use? Not Verilog or VHDL?
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<random-jellyfish>
I'm taking concepts from the SystemVerilog standard
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<random-jellyfish>
and I plan to add DSLs that mimic both SystemVerilog and VHDL...but this later on
<random-jellyfish>
at first it will be a Common Lisp library
<random-jellyfish>
then I'll add macros to create the DSLs
<random-jellyfish>
right now it simulates time correctly
<random-jellyfish>
I'll soon add signals and events
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<random-jellyfish>
I also have a SystemVerilog parser written in ANTLR4, I plan to use that to translate legacy code to Lisp
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<random-jellyfish>
is it possible to use Common Lisp's conditions to create a custom debugger for a DSL?
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<beach>
I guess that depends on the features you would like in the debugger.
<random-jellyfish>
for example: I'm using cl-generators to mimic coroutines, and when I use step to step over the code inside a coroutine the macro gets expanded and the code becomes unreadable
<beach>
STEP is a very primitive tool.
<random-jellyfish>
I'd like to somehow implement my own step function that knows where it is inside the coroutine
<random-jellyfish>
beach what alternatives are there?
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<beach>
As I have pointed out several times, the tools at our disposal in the free-software Common Lisp domain are very primitive, so there may not be an alternative for you.
<random-jellyfish>
oh I see what you mean
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<beach>
But for a DSL you can do what you want. You can generate code that contains support for a custom debugger. But you haven't told us what features you imagined.
<beach>
As I recall (from my paper on debugging), LispWorks implements breakpoints by signaling conditions.
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<beach>
So if you generate code that does the signaling, you can write a custom debugger that handles those conditions.
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<random-jellyfish>
sounds encouraging
<an_origamian[m]>
Is the idea here to treat the macro that creates the coroutine as a built in keyword with first class debugger support? So when you step into it you wouldn't see the expansion, you would see one of the coroutines execute?
<random-jellyfish>
an_origamian[m] that kind of describes what I had in mind
<beach>
random-jellyfish: In the backtrace inspector that I use for SICL, I never show the code that was executed as the compiler compiled it. I always show the source code in the original text form. And I plan to do the same in the debugger.
<beach>
Then the problem disappears for the "application programmer", i.e., the one who is just a user of custom macros, and who doesn't need to know what they expand to.
<random-jellyfish>
beach that's exactly what I plan to do
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<random-jellyfish>
can you point me to where in the sicl source code you do the part with the backtrace inspector?
<beach>
Sounds good to me.
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<beach>
Sure, but you won't be able to use it very easily. Hold on...
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<beach>
It's in Code/Boot/Backtrace-inspector/
<beach>
It's a CLIM program.
<beach>
The backtrace being inspected is specific to SICL.
<beach>
I made a video about it some time ago. Let me see if it is still around...
<beach>
There you can also see how I can use Clouseau in combination with the backtrace inspector, and you can see how I can invoke the backtrace inspector when the host (i.e., SBCL) Common Lisp system caught the error rather than SICL.
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<beach>
With McCLIM, it is fairly straightforward to write such an application.
<gridbugsmasher42>
I love Common Lisp's looping constructs
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<beach>
Great!
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<beach>
gridbugsmasher42: Are you new here? I don't recognize your nick.
<gridbugsmasher42>
Yeah, I'm a new user
<beach>
Welcome!
<gridbugsmasher42>
Thanks
<beach>
gridbugsmasher42: If you are also new to Common Lisp, you may want to visit #clschool. This channel is not really or newbie questions, although they are tolerated to some extent.
<gridbugsmasher42>
beach: Appreciate it, I am not an absolute beginner but I am pretty new to Common Lisp. Came to it after I got tired of trying to write portable Scheme, decided I needed something with more power.
<beach>
I see. Sounds like what I did a few decades ago.
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<bjorkintosh>
gridbugsmasher42, did you try racket or some other scheme? merely curious.
<beach>
I thought the idea was to write portable code, and not for a particular implementation. No?
<Equill>
That was educational. Spent a few days getting started with Rust, with the idea that I'd write ops tools in that language, to make it easier to hand over to other people if/when the day comes. It does look like it's everything people say it is, but I need to speak fluent Spanish more urgently, so... CL for ops it is. This should be fun.
<bjorkintosh>
Equill, hire a spanish translator!
<bjorkintosh>
es mucho mas facile.
<Equill>
bjorkintosh: Puedo hacerlo, pero *vivo* en Madrid. Tengo que hablar espanol.
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<Equill>
I've lived here for over two years now. I might be a recluse, but it's just plain embarrassing to still not be fluent.
<bjorkintosh>
reckless.
<Equill>
Moving before being fluent, you mean?
<bjorkintosh>
nah. just teasing.
<bjorkintosh>
immersion is far better.
<Equill>
That it is.
<Equill>
And getting back to topic, now I'm re-immersing myself in CL.
<beach>
Good plan.
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<pticochon>
hi
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<White_Flame>
hi
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<NotThatRPG>
hi
<an_origamian[m]>
hi
<NotThatRPG>
Any FiveAM users still on?
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* jackdaniel
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<Josh_2>
yitzi: I just used that little bit of code you wrote with #'reduce to access nested hash tables :P
<Josh_2>
Refactored a bit of code to use it
<yitzi>
cool
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<jcowan>
Immersion is good, but triple immersion, so they say, is better!
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