jackdaniel changed the topic of #commonlisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | Wiki: <https://www.cliki.net> | IRC Logs: <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/libera/%23commonlisp> | Cookbook: <https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook> | Pastebin: <https://plaster.tymoon.eu/>
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<jamesmartinez> paulapatience: :(
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<ixelp> GitHub - fukamachi/sxql: An SQL generator for Common Lisp.
<josrr> prxq: something like (:is-null :age)
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<beach> Shinmera: How complete is Alloy?
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* jackdaniel /counts/ on the answer "3", eventually "42" although it is a bit cliche
<beach> Are you using "eventually" the way the entire world (except English) uses it?
<jackdaniel> no, in this case it was another silly joke; when you train neural networks answers are nudged towards the "optimal" answer :)
<beach> I see.
<beach> Just checking.
<jackdaniel> 42 is a fancy number mentioned in a sci-fi book that is an answer to everything
<beach> I seem to remember that, yes.
<Shinmera> beach: it is used for all the UI in Kandria and its editing tools.
<beach> Shinmera: Yes, I can imagine that. But the needs of Kandria might be a bit special compared to a desktop GUI library.
<Shinmera> Then I don't know how to answer your question because in my mind there's an infinity of widgets and things and tools to add to a GUI toolkit, and as such it's never complete.
<beach> Sure. Thanks.
<Shinmera> It has all the basic stuff like text input, combo boxes, toolbars, switches, scroll views, etc.
<beach> OK. Got it!
<Shinmera> notably font rendering is all pure CL
<Shinmera> and it supports mixed fonts and font fallbacks.
<jackdaniel> does it support bi-directional text?
<Shinmera> though it does not yet support many unicode features like bidi, combined diectretics (esp emoji), vertical text layouting, etc.
<Shinmera> I did write the uax-9 library to support bidi in the future, but have not integrated it yet as there's currently no need.
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<bitblit1> Coolz
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<pve> Good morning! Is it reasonable to provide default initargs to make-instance that may be "overridden", like in this situation, where I want to inherit properties from a parent object:
<pve> an alternative would be to set the properties using accessors, but I can't really tell which is preferable
<prxq> why don't you put the defaults in the initarg declaration?
<prxq> I mean initform...
<prxq> That's what they are for :-)
<prxq> you can simply override them with the appropriate initarg.
<pve> prxq: because I would like the parent should determine the defaults, not the class
<pve> s/should/to
<prxq> normally one would put the initforms in the parent, then...
<pve> i mean the parent object
<pve> not parent class
<prxq> ah so only the values provided as initargs in the spawn-foo function should overwrite. Then yeah I guess you can do it this way.
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<pranavats> Also, initforms are different from default-initargs. initforms are default values for slots, default-initargs are default values for initargs. The latter is assigned before initforms.
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<pranavats> This article explains the differences between the two: https://courses.cs.northwestern.edu/325/readings/clos.php
<pranavats> See the section titled ":initform versus :default-initargs"
<pranavats> What's a parent object?
<pve> pranavats: in my example, it's another instance of the class foo
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<pranavats> pve: what happens if a slot is unbound in the parent instance?
<pve> pranavats: an error would be signalled
<pranavats> Is that something you'd want to handle in spawn-foo?
<pve> no
<pranavats> Okay
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<bitblit1> Hello everyone! Is there a cross platform way to get command line arguments (any libraries) or is it better I just manually do #+clisp ext:args or whatever
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<Bike> uiop:command-line-arguments i think
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<bitblit1> Oh Thanks Bike
<bitblit1> I have seen many programs in common lisp which don't update in real time. Whereas programs like McCLIM and CEPL update as you recompile your code. Is there any reason for this. I don't understand how you make code update on the fly in common lisp.
<Bike> many programs like what?
<beach> You run your application in one thread and the compiler in a different thread.
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<pjb> bitblit1: you need to structure your program to be able to update on the fly. This is automatic for notinline functions, but for the other functions, you need to ensure that the main loop is replaced by the new version, so that new code is taken into account.
<pjb> bitblit1: that said, the main loop doesn't need to change often, so just having it refer notinline functions (eg. functions compiled in a different compilation-unit), would be enough in most cases.
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<pjb> That's what a REPL is and does.
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* ober wonders if anyone deploys images still.
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<bitblit1> pjb: beach Thanks a bunch! Will try to implement that.
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<bitblit1> Are global variables dicouraged in comparison to passing something like XDisplay to everrrrry function?
<bitblit1> Or is it like upto convenience to not overuse them
<bitblit1> Thinking about it common lisp symbols and packages mostly solve the issues with global vars no?
<random-nick> don't they do it using dynamically binding special variables?
<random-nick> as opposed to changing their global value
<random-nick> and sometimes a keyword argument is used with a default value looking up a special variable
<random-nick> that's kind of similar to how streams can be passed to standard functions via arguments or via special variables
<random-nick> if you don't like special variables and don't like passing everything via arguments, you can try somehow hiding passing via arguments using macros, but that can be tricky and hard to read to everyone unfamiliar with your technique
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<aeth> to me, it doesn't seem like a big deal to pass something to every function
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<aeth> in part because while it seems like every function at first, it quickly turns out not to be (and if it still is, then your functions are probably too big)
<aeth> But now you win because now you have functions where it can be accessed and functions where it can't, while a special or global is potentially accessed in that whole call stack.
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