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<cpli>
how would you expand a loop into a progn?
<cpli>
(DEFMACRO MARCO (&REST ARGS) `(PROGN ,@(LOOP FOR ARG IN ARGS COLLECT (MAKE-FORM ARG))))
<cpli>
doesn't quite work
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<cpli>
oh
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<contrapunctus>
cpli: why are you reading kmonad configurations, instead of letting the configuration be Common Lisp code? That would be vastly more powerful 🤔️
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<cpli>
...
<cpli>
contrapunctus: i already have the common lisp code..
<cpli>
it would just be fun if it wasn't only "vastly more powerful"
<cpli>
but people could start using it, without having to change, but the package that's installed and the binary that's executed.
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<Josh_2>
:trumpet:
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<soundmodel>
any tips about a list of arguments to convert Pythonists to CL?
<soundmodel>
assuming that CL and Python are exclusive
<Josh_2>
Show them some code?
<soundmodel>
but then they say "hey no libraries"
<soundmodel>
or they say "hey this does the same thing, just syntactic nuance"
<Josh_2>
:shrug:
<Josh_2>
Just show them code
<soundmodel>
"no big deal, both are scripting languages and get the job done"
<Josh_2>
CL isn't a scripting language
<soundmodel>
I thought it is its main market, because it's a high-level and dynamic language originally
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<soundmodel>
or maybe half of what Java does and half of what Python does
<Josh_2>
CL isnt a scripting language, in fact its a right faff to make it work (nicely) as one
<soundmodel>
so you mean another Lisp is of the scripting type?
<soundmodel>
although I am not sure about where you draw the line between scripting and something else
<soundmodel>
maybe that a scripting DSL has less constructs
<Josh_2>
Well CL is normally compiled
<soundmodel>
yes, but I don't understand why a scripting language must be interpreted
<soundmodel>
heck, even Java is used as a scripting language in some tools
<Josh_2>
I think writing "scripts" is antithetical to the intended purpose of CL
<Josh_2>
CL is a large but elegant system for solving large and complicated problems
<soundmodel>
so is there some other Lisp for this use case then?
<Josh_2>
Probably Guile or another scheme
<soundmodel>
so why aren't these the same language
<phoe>
because lisp history is complicated and people behind Guile wanted a different set of ideas and tradeoffs than the one offered by CL
<phoe>
in particular, Guile is a dialect of Scheme
<soundmodel>
I originally was wishing to find more uniformity in Lisps compared to C-languages
<Josh_2>
If you want an argument for CL then you can point out that it is an image based language, the entire language is available at runtime
<soundmodel>
because I'm not finding that JavaScript is a dialect of C or something
<Josh_2>
well they have () :joy:
<Josh_2>
But even some lisps like clojure ruin this by introducing [] :sob:
<phoe>
soundmodel: uniformity in C languages? you mean C, C++, D, Rust, Zig, Pony, Crystal, Nim, and so on?
<soundmodel>
Java too
<soundmodel>
but to me they don't have much in common
<phoe>
oh so we add managed languages to the mix too
<Josh_2>
Lisps treat code as data etc
<soundmodel>
so I thought that Lisps were more "family-like"
<soundmodel>
I originally wanted languages that are easy to link together
<soundmodel>
i.e. embedded to each other etc.
<phoe>
lisps are different just like everything else out there
<phoe>
even parentheses are optional, as Dylan sort of proves
<Josh_2>
^
<phoe>
though that's already a #lisp discussion since it's not about just CL anymore
<soundmodel>
but I mean, if I associate CL with Java
<soundmodel>
then now I a wondering what's the C of CL and what's the JS of CL
<Josh_2>
CL is the C of CL
<phoe>
it's CL and CL, respectively
<soundmodel>
or what is the Python of CL
<Josh_2>
CL is the python is CL :joy:
<phoe>
CL is able to swallow a lot of other languages' job because of its ability to write domain-specific sublanguages in CL and then write domain-specific code in these DSLs
<soundmodel>
but this is said to be true for C++ also
<phoe>
...except it has a decent macro system instead of C++ templates
<phoe>
and decent error messages that don't fill up your screen with sharp brackets and class names
<phoe>
and, yeah, it's interactive unlike C++
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<Josh_2>
What sort of performance impact is there to calling sort on an already sorted list?
<Josh_2>
I gotta maintain the order of a sequence while adding and removing elements
<Josh_2>
The sequence will never be greater than 260 (or so) so guess it doesn't really matter :shrug:
<Alfr>
Josh_2, you may want to look at MERGE.
<Josh_2>
Spot on
<Josh_2>
Thanks :)
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<boogsbunny>
How do I use template literals in Parenscript? I'd like to store a variable foo that holds `bar`
<pjb>
(setf foo 'bar) ; or do I fail to understand what you want?
<boogsbunny>
the value needs to be wrapped in backtick characters
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<boogsbunny>
foo = `bar`
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<pjb>
boogsbunny: this doesn't mean anything.
<pjb>
boogsbunny: in Common Lisp, "backtick" is a character bound to a reader macro, that reads a certain syntax and returns an expression that builds a S-expressions following that template.
<Bike>
a "template literal" is a javscript thing.
<pjb>
In that case, you need to identify what lisp form parenscript transcribes into `bar` and use that.
<pjb>
It's possible that it doesn't exist, parenscript doesn't try to provide a lisp form for each javascript syntax.
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<pjb>
boogsbunny: in the worst case, you can use js: (ps:js "foo = `bar`") to insert inline javascript.
<boogsbunny>
yeah, I'm writing JavaScript using Parenscript for that purpose. I'm not sure how to accomplish that in Parenscript or Common Lisp yet which is why I'm asking around here. For example, (setf foo (format nil "`~a`" "bar")) here wraps it in backticks but it's a string
<boogsbunny>
mhmm, isn't that macro deprecated?
<pjb>
well, as the name indicates, they're template LITERALS, not template expressions, so you cannot build them at run-time.
<edwlan[m]>
template literals are irrelevant in parenscript because they’re part of the syntax of JavaScript that parenscript hides from you
<pjb>
(in javascript).
<pjb>
But you could write a macro to compute the string at lisp macroexpand-time, and expand into the ps:js form.
<pjb>
But note that you still need to know "bar" at compilation-time (macroexpansion-time).
<pjb>
I guess you could use: (setf foo (ps:js "`bar`"))
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<kagev>
parenscript is meant to be used with ES5 ... there are other libraries that build on parenscript for ES6+ features, though
<kagev>
I would just embrace parenscript as a subset of CL and use it as a Lisp and let parenscript worry about getting your code into JS
<kagev>
for putting strings together I would lean toward doing it the CL way as much as possible and forget about using a template literal
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<prxq>
how do i print a symbol including the package name? like (<magic> 'symbol) => "PACKAGE::SYMBOL"
<boogsbunny>
ah, I didn't realize that template literals are part of ES6. Thanks for all the advice!
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<prxq>
got this but it feels hacky, (defun symbol-full-name (symbol) (let ((*package* (find-package :keyword))) (write-to-string symbol)))
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<kagev>
prxq: maybe something like this: (format t "~a ~a~%" (package-name (symbol-package 'my-var)) 'my-var)
<prxq>
kagev: that's explicit. thank you.
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<kagev>
prxq: not sure if it's the *best* way, but it's *a* way :D
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<pjb>
prxq: this doesn't work: (symbol-full-name :foo)