jackdaniel changed the topic of #commonlisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | Wiki: <https://www.cliki.net> | IRC Logs: <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/libera/%23commonlisp> | Cookbook: <https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook> | Pastebin: <https://plaster.tymoon.eu/> | News: ELS'22 this Monday (2022-03-21), see https://european-lisp-symposium.org
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<hashfuncb81> dbotton: do you have any experience (or did you draw any inspiration) with these applications? and do you think CLOG is a better alternative? if so, why? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24839341 https://retool.com/
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<dbotton> First I heard of it
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<dbotton> CLOG is always a better alternative, it is Common Lisp, it is free as in beer and it can already do what retool does.
<dbotton> and it did all that in 8 months, imagine it in a year ;)
<dbotton> It is technically year and a half but took a few months brake)
<hashfuncb81> ok thanks. my current aim is to invest alot of time in the tech; i just want to make sure that we're all going down the right path
<dbotton> It does have a nicer interface at the moment but an uglier language JS :)
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<dbotton> I wish him well and see already is doing well
<dbotton> That means the opportunity is ripe
<dbotton> This is an area that for many years has been neglected
<dbotton> Left too 2nd rate tools pasted on top of office suites etc
<dbotton> An important point is the shift back from web documents to app interfaces
<dbotton> Retool misses out on that point a bit
<dbotton> Take a look at Builder Tutorial 4 - https://github.com/rabbibotton/clos-contact
<dbotton> That app took me not much longer that his demo, and that was with me writing the tutorial as I went
<dbotton> and is more functional.
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<dbotton> and before the recent speedups and alignment tools in the latest builder.
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<dbotton> Honestly hashfuncb81 though I am not really competing, CLOG is in Common Lisp and that just makes it unfair for everything else.
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<hashfuncb81> dbotton: i truly believe i'll be using the for years to come. i think it'd be very interesting to see your CLOG-BUILDER/programming workflow when making https://github.com/rabbibotton/clos-contact in video format
<dbotton> The tutorial follows it well
<dbotton> My focus is on getting the tool and loose documentation done first.
<dbotton> Then I'll try to work on more formal docs and videos etc
<dbotton> My development is literally squeezed between patients, teaching, children (I have a _very_ large family thank God) and my own studies.
<dbotton> So hard to take a stretch of time to create view (especially with kids and wife yelling in background :)
<dbotton> video
<dbotton> but will work on it
<dbotton> Consider though starting a discussion on git hub, it also helps me to look back at things, and this room is more for Common Lisp :)
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<hashfuncb81> dbotton: i understand, and if there's anything else i can do to help, please let me know
<dbotton> there is always much to do :) answer questions, tickets, make sample apps, extend the framework, create custom controls (tutorial coming this week on Lisp based controls), bind existing Java Script controls, etc
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<pjb> dbotton: you need a man's lair!
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<phantomics> Does anyone know the current status of sb-simd? I see it's been archived, is the project now abandoned?
<hayley> sb-simd is an official SBCL contrib now.
<phantomics> Cool, is it considered viable for production code at this point?
<hayley> Yes.
<phantomics> Great news
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<pve> Hi! Thinking about tests and predicates got me wondering if it would be useful to have a library that defined a set of higher-order functions, each returning a predicate corresponding to some function in CL. For instance "(member-is '(a b c))" would be equivalent to "(lambda (item) (member item '(a b c)))". Or would it be a waste of time since alexandria:curry already exists and kind of does the job?
<beach> pve: Why is TYPEP not sufficient?
<scymtym> for TYPEP specifically, alexandria has ALEXANDRIA:OF-TYPE with (funcall (alexandria:of-type T) x) == (typep x T)
<pve> beach: It's certainly sufficient. But would you ever consider using (type-is 'number), that returns a predicate?
<scymtym> which can be handy for things like (find-if (of-type T) s)
<pve> oh I didn't know about of-type, that's cool
<hayley> Hm, does (find 'number '("blah" 1 foo) :key #'typep) go the right way around? I think SUBTYPEP did go the right way around for something.
<hayley> Er, :test.
<beach> pve: I don't seem to have had the need for such a thing before.
<hayley> And it does not.
<pve> beach: alright :)
<pjb> pve: there are an infinite number of functions. It's not too useful to generate "random" families of them.
<pjb> pve: this is why we invented lambda, anonymous functions.
<pve> pjb: sure, although I meant specifically curried versions of standard functions, like eq, member, typep.. but I can see how it might be limiting
<beach> pve: There are type specifiers EQL, MEMBER, etc. But, sure, the use case scymtym described could be simplified compared to using TYPEP.
<pve> beach: hm, are we talking about the same thing? I'm not sure how type specifiers relate to this..
<beach> pve: Right, I see your proposal is more general. I was merely pointing out that you can create a type specifier that would work for things like MEMBER and possibly get the benefits of compile-time type inference.
<pve> beach: ok gotcha
<beach> (typep x '(member a b c))
<beach> ... modulo my having forgotten the syntax, of course.
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<contrapunctus> I have a `(loop with var = (- form1 form2) ...)` , form2 is on its own line, and Emacs is strangely insistent about indenting form2 with an extra space. 🤔️
<contrapunctus> (As opposed to lining up with form1.)
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<dlowe> emacs really wants every loop clause to be on its own line
<contrapunctus> Ah, haha.
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<Gnuxie> contrapunctus: yes the extra space is there bc if you imagine you had the line break at = it would put an extra space to show it is a part of the with above
<contrapunctus> I see...
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<pjb> contrapunctus: slime indents it correctly.
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<dbotton> pjb what I need is a way to freeze time and keep working :)
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<NotThatRPG> Any interest any time in putting together an ILC or similar get-together that might be combined with some sort of hackathon? Seems like there are a lot of libraries and implementations that could use a little love. Has ELS ever had an associated hacking meeting?
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<pjb> dbotton: that'd be nice, but we'd grow old fast.
<NotThatRPG> (Hm. Looks like the topic could use a little love, too! Last time I checked, "this Monday" wasn't March 21st)
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<nij-> I'm trying to invoke an sbcl in a docker image, but ran into the error:
<nij-> fatal error encountered in SBCL pid 7 tid 7: core was built for runtime "travis-job-..travis-2020-02-03.." but this is "..-root-2022-03-..". What is this, and how should I start fixing it?
<Catie> vw
<Catie> Sorry, wrong window had keyboard focus
<Nilby> nij: You can fix it simply by running "sbcl --core 'a good core file' …" but it's probably better to figure out why you are running a mismatched image and core. The default place it put the core is /usr/local/lib/sbcl/sbcl.core, but of course that depends where it was installed.
<Nilby> nij: Another way is to dump an image which contains the core, and then you'll never lose it.
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<nij-> Oh, I did run `sbcl --core some-special-core --load <..>` just to see how that affects.. previous tries elsewhere didn't give me this trouble so I thought it was not a problem. Sorry for not having brought it up.
<nij-> So I guess the lesson is that I cannot use any core I want for a fixed sbcl? What are the cores that can be used then?
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<Alfr> nij-, those you dumped using the same sbcl.
<Alfr> nij-, (and other people using that sbcl).
<Alfr> nij-, note that the same version won't do, it must be the same build.
<nij-> Hmm.. I see. I used roswell to build that core, and used the sbcl under `~/.roswell`.. I wonder which step was wrong..
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<nij-> Alfr What is a "build"?
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<Alfr> nij-, building sbcl from source.
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