<Nilby>
Not that a few hardware hacks wouldn't make things slightly, faster or easier. But all of a shell, terminal emulator, command line programs, window manager, part of a web browser, etc. being in CL and seem fast enough. Also a kernel with Mezzano. Currently, memory usage is the main issue I have, which is quite solvable. And immediatately solvable with $$$ for propriety implementations.
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<dbotton>
Has anyone worked with swank? Any ideas about how to get a string in to a "raw-form"?
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<dbotton>
figured I'd share CLOG's event code editor (uses ace), now very comfortable to write code in it.
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<ogamita>
sm2n: the format of files is implementation dependent. Only clisp optimizes bit files, but with a header, so some overhead: https://termbin.com/e03l
<ogamita>
sm2n: when you run on a posix platform, the only "standard" file format is the sequence of octet (provided by posix file I/O operations). So your only hope, if you want to read or write files that you can use across implementations and across platforms, is to use that.
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<hayley>
I forgot when I mentioned it was fairly easy to provoke worst-case behaviour in the CCL hash tables.
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<lottaquestions>
beach: This is offtopic: who would be the best person to ask questions about tooling for scheme, specifically mit-scheme? I am reading a number of scheme books, not to learn the language but to glean the ideas out of them, and I am really getting frustrated about not having tooling like slime for CL
<lottaquestions>
beach: For example in slime, I can macroexpand, go to definition etc
<beach>
lottaquestions: I am not the right person for that. I gave up Scheme a few decades ago. But I am sure others who hang out here, or in #lisp, would know.
<beach>
Sorry.
<morganw>
I think Geiser is meant to be the closest to Slime/Sly, but for features like restarts I think they will be implementation specific (I think only MIT Scheme has something similar to a restart)
<contrapunctus>
lottaquestions: try #scheme
<lottaquestions>
beach: Thanks. I am not really keen on the language, it is just that some ideas are trapped in books that use scheme to convey the ideas.
<beach>
I see.
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<lottaquestions>
contrapunctus: Will try there. Was trying here first, because chances are people on #scheme would not know what slime is or the power it confers on a user
<beach>
lottaquestions: So do I understand your question right that you are aware of some tools that are described in the Scheme literature and that you would like to adapt to Common Lisp?
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<lottaquestions>
beach: No, I am currently reading "Software Design for Flexibility", by Chris Hanson and Gerald Jay Sussman and would like to fully understand the ideas in the book. To my knowledge no one has a similar text for Common Lisp. But to understand the content of the book, I have to look at the accompanying code which is in scheme
<beach>
Got it.
<lottaquestions>
beach: The code for the book is non-trivial, but having proper tooling for a language can help with understanding programs written in the language. My opinion, is that CL has better documentation for its tools
<beach>
I understand.
<hexology>
lottaquestions: there is a #scheme channel
<lottaquestions>
Already posted there, hopefully someone will respond :-)
<Bike>
for what it's worth, i read that book and the scheme was simple enough that i didn't have much trouble following along. but i didn't work any of the examples
<Bike>
(and a lot of it was written in a pretty non-CL way, e.g. the scheme idiom of using closures as objects)
<hexology>
lottaquestions: if you use neovim, i've had a decent experience using Conjure for interactive repl stuff. not quite as feature-ful as vlime (which itself is not as feature-ful as slime), but you can still have a nice interactive experience
<hexology>
i think common lisp support for conjure has been wip for a little while. it would be nice, a lot simpler for quick things compared to vlime
<hexology>
i also use parinfer for anything lispy
<lottaquestions>
Bike: I am working through some of the exercises, and in cases where I get completly lost, I am looking at the authors' solutions. I felt that I was getting lost without attempting the exercises as their writing style is mostly of "left as an exercise to the reader" kind
<Bike>
ah, yeah.
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<pjb>
lottaquestions: do you know edwin? emacs-like distributed with mit-scheme written in scheme. You can C-x C-e in it like in emacs, but for scheme expressions.
<pjb>
lottaquestions: also, schemers who want IDE features will use Racket.
<contrapunctus>
SBCL on Linux, right after start, takes up ~90M RSS. After loading McCLIM, this becomes ~130M. Is there any way to take up less RAM?
<jdz>
contrapunctus: What about after (sb-ext:gc :full t)?
<jdz>
contrapunctus: But anyway, that's pretty much expected.
<jdz>
I've heard it's still an order or two fewer than an Electron app.
<contrapunctus>
jdz: Huh...77M.
<hexology>
yeah electron apps can be in the few hundred mb range. i always understood memory usage to be the primary downside of lisp
<hexology>
and memory is relatively cheap nowadays
<White_Flame>
is it really that different from any other runtime with embedded compiler, like java?
<hexology>
i'm not sure and i was just about to say: what would be more interesting would be to trace out memory size over the lifetime of a proram
<rogersm>
"I've heard it's still an order or two fewer than an Electron app." he he
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<lottaquestions>
pjb: Thanks. Will check out Edwin and DrRacket
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<Fade>
wasn't edwin a screen editor that shipped with DOS?
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<Fade>
might be difficult to search out.
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<nij->
While compiling sbcl (from roswell), I got the error https://bpa.st/X2BA , but it doesn't seem to affect the end result. Should I be worried? Or it's just doing some check of sbcl itself during compilation?
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<hashfunc1ed7>
dbotton: what's the best way of going about editing stuff in the DEFAULT-THEME? for example, i'd like to totally remove everything above the menu bar; just having the menu bar connected to the top of the screen
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<dbotton>
I would make sure to go through tutorials 30 to 32, then take a look at the function default-theme in clog-web-themes.lisp - you can then copy and rename that function to your project, playing as you would like using your hand rolled theme.
<dbotton>
You can also look at demo 4 that does not use clog-web that does not use the "instant website" stuff
<hashfunc1ed7>
ok thanks for the feedback
<dbotton>
There are <hashfunc1ed7> so many ways to make a "website", even just adding boot.js to regular html files and attaching to to the id's of controls you want to control from server side, etc etc
<hashfunc1ed7>
so true. i'm just not all that experienced with html/css/js at the moment; so it's going to be a little journey for me on how to craft what i envision
<dbotton>
What you may want to try is designing it all in the CLOG builder visually and using lisp start to finish.
<dbotton>
You publish your app (start with the clog-web template in builder) and add your panels to a webpage etc.
<dbotton>
Go through thought the tutorials start to end. Good Luck :) and post as a discussion on the github page so you can go back to things. irc is great but that will help you more and there are already a few good Lispers there using CLOG and help also.
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<hashfunc1ed7>
dbotton: ok, i finished all of the tutorials last night; trying to comprehend as much as possible & ok i will try using the clog builder. i guess the only thing that's been preventing me from using the clog builder has been that i'm not quite understanding the differences between CLOG-GUI and CLOG-WEB? which one should i use in which situation(s) (or use both?)? i'm aiming to build a webapp (website) where the layout bounds ar
<hashfunc1ed7>
static for the main application (no scrolling up or down and whatnot); so would CLOG-GUI be the best for that? Or CLOG-WEB since it's going to be on the web? or both?
<dbotton>
CLOG-GUI is if you like the desktop theme and window, otherwise CLOG-WEB works well
<dbotton>
as for static see the code in demo 4 or tutorial 27 - the panelbox layout is your friend
<hashfunc1ed7>
i don't understand what the difference between "the desktop theme and window" is and CLOG-WEB? both tutorial 22 and tutorial 32 look almost exactly the same expect one uses CLOG-GUI and the other CLOG-WEB
<hashfunc1ed7>
i unable to compare and contract the two abstractions
<hashfunc1ed7>
i'm*
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<hashfunc1ed7>
dbotton: thanks for pointing me to the panelbox. that's gold for me
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