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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<lisp123>
Morning Beach
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<contrapunctus>
I was wondering if there's a way to comment out s-expressions (rather than lines of text) in Common Lisp (there's a SRFI for it in Scheme), and I just encountered #+nil in some code. Clever.
<beach>
And wrong.
<beach>
The right way is #+(or) or #-(and).
<contrapunctus>
beach: interesting...why's that?
<beach>
#+nil means that if :NIL is a member of *FEATURES* then the code is enabled.
<beach>
#+(or) is a feature expression that is always false.
<contrapunctus>
Ah, right. I think I might make a cl-cookbook entry for this.
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<White_Flame>
I also sometimes just quote a form in a code body, if it's not the last one
<White_Flame>
easy, but doesn't get the syntax highlighting that #+ or #- does
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<lisp123>
is it possible for two calls to get-universal-time to give the same value?
<lisp123>
Anybody have a helper to ensure its unique?
<jackdaniel>
it is not possible because the universal time steps by a second
<jackdaniel>
unless you put apart both calls by at least a second they won't have an unique value
<jackdaniel>
thanks, I'm contemplating a nature of time
<lisp123>
whats that?
<jackdaniel>
I'm joking. I'm exploring the idea of modeling motion with transfromation matrices
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<lisp123>
Nice. I never studied physics but I'm sure those who did would love that idea
<jackdaniel>
and the first version used a linear transformation with t axis - since it is linear then it is possible to cast the "point time" to "observer time" and I had so much fun with thinking about that part that it is inappropriate
<lisp123>
time for dinner - bye!
<jackdaniel>
see you \o
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<pjb>
lisp123: you may want (com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.time:get-real-time)
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<Guest74>
dude fix your site or host your software elsewhere, it's probably not doing you any good broken.
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<yitzi>
Guest74: Who are you talking to?
<Guest74>
the guy who's been giving out dead links for days.
<rotateq>
I don't see any such links.
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<yitzi>
Guest74: If the person you are directing the message to is online or known to use something like irccloud or matrix I suggest prefacing your comment with their handle so they know you are talking to them. Or use `::notify` to tell them the next time they log on.
<char[m]>
"prog2 evaluates first-form, then second-form, and then forms, yielding as its only value the primary value yielded by first-form."
<mfiano>
Known bug
<mfiano>
See the errata
<rotateq>
char[m]: yes we had that some months ago that it is not correct
<beach>
But we won't wait until it's complete to release a first version.
<beach>
char[m]: But scymtym is working on a new transformed dpANS, and one output format is HTML. It will have annotations that indicate errors.
<char[m]>
That is more what I was looking for 😁
<beach>
It will also fix the (few) errors resulting from the transformation of the dpANS into the Common Lisp HyperSpec.
<beach>
The same work will be the basis for annotating the standard with WSCL issues.
<beach>
Personally, I am much more interested in the output format that feeds the CLIM-based viewer.
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<rotateq>
beach: Let me guess, *not* XML. :)
<beach>
I think that's a safe bet.
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<yitzi>
So clearly JSON? How about YAML? ;)
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<beach>
Clearly.
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<semz>
char[m]: The prog2 error is only an error in the spec, not the actual standard.
<beach>
semz: Er, what?
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<semz>
beach: The standard (or at least the draft I have here) has the correct definition of prog2. It's only the hyperspec that is wrong.
<semz>
Which is actually pretty bizarre. How did that error even get in there?
<beach>
Are you sure about that?
<semz>
...no I'm not. Bah, I read the wrong line.
<semz>
Sorry for the noise.
<beach>
Oh, OK.
<pjb>
semz: copy-and-paste editing.
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<char[m]>
Bike: for sandalphon.lambda-list is it intentional that nothing is exported?
<Bike>
no. and i haven't touched that system in quite a while. i'd recommend using another lambda list parser, like the oens in alexandria or concrete-syntax-tree.
<Colleen>
Bike: karlosz said 16 hours, 24 minutes ago: if you want inspiration for source form instrumentation, sb-cover does that (you get coverage information for every source form)
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<Guest74>
huh, I don't have sb-cover. wonder what else I missed in my build.
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<char[m]>
Bike: Alexandria doesn't work for extended-lambda-lists. I'm trying cst
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<scymtym>
Guest74: did you try (require :sb-cover)? sb-cover is a "contributed module" in SBCL which is always installed (i think) but not loaded by default
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<Guest74>
scymtym: thanks, that worked. Was thinking I might have missed something when compiling it.
<scymtym>
Guest74: sure
<scymtym>
Guest74: consider the corresponding SLIME contrib, in particular M-x slime-sprof-report once you have collected a profile. (i would additionally recommend https://github.com/scymtym/clim.flamegraph/tree/future but the SBCL side has been changing lately, so it might not work)
<Guest74>
i'll have to look up that slime contrib, dont see it anywhere.
<Guest74>
If I look at your code I'm liable to just use it.
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<scymtym>
maybe you need M-x slime-enable-contrib slime-sprof, not sure
<scymtym>
i don't understand the part about looking at the code
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<Guest74>
nice to know about that fn. Doesn't find it though.
<Guest74>
as for the code, writing visualizations is probably the best part.
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<char[m]>
for cst:cst:parse-destructuring-lambda-list, is there a way to just get the names of the parameters?
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<Bike>
you'd have to iterate through and collect them, i guess
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<jeosol>
Good morning guys
<jeosol>
calling on asdf and system dependency expert to help me resolve some loading issues.
<char[m]>
I was afraid you would say that. I guess it is not the common use case.
<jeosol>
I think I messed up my code while in a haste to get things working. I want to see if I check my procedure again with you guys.
<jeosol>
I have a large application and load times are killing me and working with docker is a pain to update the images. But I will leave docker out of the conversation for now.
<jeosol>
Let's say I have three systems: A, B, C with C depend on B, and B depend A. The way I write my code, when I want to test thing with B, I do a ql of B and the B.asd has a dependency on A. Similarly, C.asd has B as a dependency.
<jeosol>
I tried to speed things up by dumping intermediate core files (relevant for docker side mostly), for example, I will dump an image with B loaded, and then when I start C, I point sbcl to start with that core file with B's image. But it appears, it still loads everything again, A, B, again
<jeosol>
So it seems I am not doing something correctly and may need to reword the asd file. Basically, when I start sbcl and pointing to the corefile with B loaded, I would like it to just add whatever is in C system.
<jeosol>
and use the rest of the info for B and A already in the loaded image
<jeosol>
loaded image -> core file when starting SBCL
<jeosol>
reword -> rework
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<random-nick>
it might be the case that something is refreshing the modification times
<random-nick>
that makes asdf reload things
<jeosol>
random-nick: thanks for that info
<jeosol>
I will have to look into that
<random-nick>
also, it's pretty weird to have huge load times unless you have really huge amounts of (generated) code
<random-nick>
unless of course you have a lot of code and everything is getting recompiled every time due to missing fasls or something refreshing modification times
<random-nick>
but I guess a docker container wouldn't have any fasls
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<jeosol>
random-nick: Yeah, it's a huge amount of code, very large code base
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<jeosol>
several thousand lines
<jeosol>
I need to go back and investigate the system asd files and now things are getting load
<jeosol>
For now, I am not focusing on docker yet, because I see the same behaviour when building on my local linux box
<etimmons>
How do you dump the image? If it's using UIOP functionality, I think ASDF itself might be purposefully forgetting timestamps. (I know ASDF resets a lot of its config on dump, just can't remember for sure if that's part of it)
<jeosol>
eric: thanks for that.
<etimmons>
Look into marking a system as preloaded. I think there's some stuff in the manual about that
<jeosol>
You are familiar with my project, i believe. This large recompilation is not making a lot of sense, hence my thinking I messed things up
<jeosol>
let me check the code for saving the image
<random-nick>
apparently mcclim has 110k lines of code in 488 files, but it still loads (from fasls) in less than 10 seconds
<random-nick>
on my machine of course
<random-nick>
if you figure out the recompilation issue then it might be fast enough to load from fasls instead of dumping cores
<jeosol>
random-nick: thank for that benchmark, mine takes a much longer that, but 260kloc, minutes on local machine, longer on docker
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<jeosol>
this is proof, I have something off completely
<jeosol>
etimmons: I am using sb-ext:save-lisp-and-die
<jeosol>
etimmons: marking system as preloaded? And by manual you mean asdf manual:
<char[m]>
Bike: after playing with it a bit, doing what I want is extremely trivial. Very well designed. All the inheritence is just perfect.
<etimmons>
save lisp and die does not trigger ASDF's cleanup code, so it's likely something else. And yes, marking a system as preloaded
<jeosol>
etimmons: so using save lisp and die is better, or I should be using something else
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<jeosol>
I suspect it is related to how I set up the asd files - I am afraid as things got larger, my discipline of setting up the dependencies with care reduced
<etimmons>
It all depends on what you want. save-lisp-and-die is probably the best thing if you're going to run the image on the same computer that dumped it.
<jeosol>
etimmons: haha, thanks for that, that bit me a few times trying to run a image on another machine
<etimmons>
Dumping through UIOP's functions will set things up so that ASDF will more likely work in a different environment
<jeosol>
For the docker side of things, I redo everything there, I was hoping, I could ideally prebuild a core and take it there, but that doesn't work. For the docker and the systems described earlier,I use multi-stage builds:
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<jeosol>
So for C-> B -> A -> SBCL (image). I build gradually, using previous core files up to B (takes longer to build). Things are a bit stable at B. It's the C system I modify and work on mostly. So Ideally, I want to update C's docker image using B as the base docker image
<jeosol>
etimmons: I didn't know that, I had always thought it is not possible to build a core and use an another machine
<etimmons>
There are definitely constraints. But it's possible
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<jeosol>
For the C-> B-> A -> SBCL image, I start sbcl with a core file from previous step, then dump another image and use that to start sbcl for the next step and so forth
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<etimmons>
That seems reasonable.
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<jeosol>
But with random-nick mcclim benchmark above, I think I may need to investigate how I set up the dependencies
<random-nick>
asdf seems to remember that mcclim is loaded both when using SB-EXT:SAVE-LISP-AND-DIE and UIOP/IMAGE:DUMP-IMAGE
<random-nick>
so the problem seems even stranger
<jeosol>
thanks for discussing this with me etimmons and random-nick, got some pointers
<jeosol>
so uiop/image:dump-image is better?
<jeosol>
that's what I expected, to remember that I have some things loaded already
<jeosol>
random-nick: the 10s benchmark above is starting from sbcl, no intermediate core files?
<random-nick>
yes, but with all fasl files
<etimmons>
Something is definitely strange if the fasls are being recompiled instead of just loaded
<random-nick>
I just checked by saving the image (with uiop) and touching all the mcclim asd files and some lisp files
<etimmons>
Touching the .asd file will certainly cause the entire system to be recompiled
<random-nick>
well, unless the touched .asd contains a system without components
<random-nick>
for example touching mcclim.asd won't recompile any lisp code because it's all in the dependencies of that system (which are defined in other .asd files)
<jeosol>
random-nick: thank you for doing that test
<jeosol>
So, expectedly on the same machine, if you start a system, it should load fast as long it using the fasl files
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