sorear changed the topic of #riscv to: RISC-V instruction set architecture | https://riscv.org | Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/riscv
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<jedix> geertu: I'm surprised I've not totally hosed nommu tbh
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<jedix> ..well, again
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<sorear> palmer: I got around to reading the patch. It's a very good step forward and I can't see anything wrong with it, I'm merely unsatisfied that we won't be able to fully test it before releasing
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<sorear> anything ABI-related in a merge window makes me very twitchy, if you get anything wrong our grandchildren will be dealing with it
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<muurkha> hopefully
<muurkha> maybe the ABI folks will take the YOLO approach the CPython maintainers have adopted
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<conchuod> sorear: merge window is closed as of Sunday gone
<conchuod> Unless you mean some different..
<sorear> thank you for the information and I'm definitely going to use "Sunday gone" in the future but in this case it would take a miracle for the patch to reach my usual standards of testedness by *next* merge window either, before the end of the year would be a huge achievement
<jrtc27> if you invent ABI and circumvent the psABI TG then there are zero guarantees a future standard won't break whatever you're doing
<sorear> the phrase "rock and a hard place" was invented to describe situations where the psABI TG and "don't break userspace" contradict each other
<jrtc27> we have custom space for non-standard extensions
<jrtc27> you could use that
<jrtc27> and never be standard
<jrtc27> (I use you to mean one, of course)
<sorear> the new ABI in the patch we're discussing consists of the use of a1/a2/a3 at the ELF entry point and the behavior of ptrace(PTRACE_GETFDPIC) on riscv64, I don't see how either of those maps to the concept of custom space
<jrtc27> I don't care about that kind of OS ABI
<jrtc27> but what about all the relocations and code models?
<sorear> n/a, binfmt_elf_fdpic doesn't apply relocations so they can be defined later
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<jrtc27> what about identification?
<arnd> I just saw that the arm elf-fdpic format comes with detailed documentation at https://github.com/mickael-guene/fdpic_doc
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<arnd> a lot of that probably also applies to riscv, but it does seem necessary for someone to go through and actually document that
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<arnd> I found similar documents for fr-v and sh, both from around 2008, but google doesn't immediately find the corresponding documents for xtensa and m68k
<arnd> gerg added kernel support for m68k fdpic last year, while jcmvbkbc did the same for xtensa slightly later
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<palmer> sorear: which patch?
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<palmer> drewfustini: did you post anywhere on LKML about that camera firmware? that makes the t-head V stuff a bit higher priority
<drewfustini> Not yet, the public annoucement of the board is today so was going to start chasing things on mailing lists now
<drewfustini> we had to go with yocto based install using the thead sdk for the shipping board but would like to improve on it post launch
<palmer> ya, that makes sense. No rush or anything, I think a lot of us had just been assuming there's nothing in userspace that actually depends on the T-Head V
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<sorear> do we have anything that talks about where to draw the line between "just a couple drive-by comments" and "you should add a r-b"? I've been erring on the side of not giving out r-bs because I'm not a maintainer and not very experienced with the kernel processes
<conchuod> You're free to leave whatever comments you like & then never leave an R-b if they are addressed /shrug
<drewfustini> fyi - new BeagleV Ahead board launching today with TH1520 https://beagleboard.org/beaglev-ahead
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<palmer> sorear: or give a R-b, it's never wrong to do so
<geertu> drewfustini: Digi-Key purchase link says 404
<palmer> you don't need to be a maintainer or long-term contributor or whatever, everyone has to start somewhere ;)
<geertu> But let's not ruin our enthousiasm. Hurray!!
<drewfustini> geertu: does this work? https://www.digikey.com/short/430m22hr
<palmer> looks like also the "latest bootable images" doesn't have the Ahead yet?
<drewfustini> ah, interesting, I think it is because digikey.com vs. digikey.be... I will ask our digikey person
<drewfustini> > looks like also the "latest bootable images" doesn't have the Ahead yet?
<drewfustini> thanks, yes, I think our updating the website for the new board was as atomic as i had expected
<geertu> So only on digikey.com, not yet on digikey.be
<palmer> drewfustini: ya, no problem -- there's always broken stuff on launch ;)
<conchuod> unrelated geertu - but I sat on that DT warning for months because I was told it was related to the non-coherent DMA stuff
<conchuod> and on that note, arnd: are you going to send a v2 of your cross arch dma series?
<arnd> conchuod: yes, I definitely plan to, just have a few other series that I need to get out first
<conchuod> 👍
<palmer> thanks, I feel kind of bad for Prabhakar -- he's been at this for a while now...
<conchuod> Yah, I do too!
<arnd> I think prabhakar's series can go in before mine after his latest rebase, right?
<conchuod> AFAIK, his last version is also on top of your work.
<drewfustini> geertu: I'm told it may take a little time for the Digikey cache servers to update worldwide.
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<geertu> conchuod: It is related to the non-coherent DMA stuff ;-) When the non-coherent DMA stuff is in, Ethernet can be enabled on RZ/Five, and the issue will go away ;-)
<conchuod> Right, but removing the W=1 complaint did not depend on it which is what I was lead to believe ;)
<conchuod> Granted, I probably asked "will this warning go away when the non-coherent stuff is merged" and not "can you make this go away without the non-coherent stuff" ;)
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<sorear> does anyone here actually have a RZ/Five? is the issue with the non-PIC load address actually real? the documentation of what's a configuration option and what isn't is confusing to the point I don't believe the analyses that have been posted
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<geertu> sorear: I have
<geertu> However, I don't do much with it beyond booting kernels until they say "unable to mount root".
<geertu> The board came with userland that was built with a modified compiler to work around the load address issue.
<drewfustini> geertu: RS is doing better so far https://befr.rs-online.com/web/p/single-board-computers/2686957
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<geertu> drewfustini: Thx, confirmed
<geertu> sorear: OpenEmbedded nodistro.0
<sorear> arnd: i firmly expect that when a fdpic abi exists it will be merged into riscv-elf-psabi-doc. my personal use cases for nommu linux (certain kinds of research hardware, certain emulation and cryptographic applications) mostly have enough memory that using normal elf executables is the reasonable approach; i'm unsure of whether it's worth spending the time to define a true abi for fdpic executables at this time
<sorear> geertu: modified by the board vendor? presumably they are aware of what is and isn't an issue, then
<geertu> sorear: I got the board straight from Renesas.
<geertu> Unfortunately the mount command in the userspace does not supports NFS, so I cannot mount a Debian nfs, and chroot into that to try...
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<arnd> sorear: I'm not sure what you mean with "normal elf executable". The default CONFIG_BINFMT_ELF loader depends on CONFIG_MMU, while CONFIG_BINFMT_ELF_FDPIC can work with or without MMU (at least on arm)
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<sorear> geertu: no ability to write to the sd card on another device, use the usb host interface, or curl a tarball?
<sorear> arnd: is_constdisp(header) = 1, i.e. everything right now because we haven't allocated an e_flags or EI_OSABI for non-constdisp
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<conchuod> Esmil: just a reminder in case you have a half written email with me in the to: line ;)
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<drewfustini> palmer: the images link should be https://www.beagleboard.org/distros but more importantly this is all the repos for BeagleV Ahead https://git.beagleboard.org/beaglev-ahead
<drewfustini> I've been using this: https://git.beagleboard.org/beaglev-ahead/xuantie-ubuntu and slowly trying to remove the thead vector stuff.
<palmer> thanks
<drewfustini> We were were going to ship this Ubuntu build on the board but could not get the CSI libraries to work in vanilla Ubuntu so quickly switch to Yocto-based image where all the libraries are the thead sdk versions. https://git.beagleboard.org/beaglev-ahead/xuantie-yocto
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<sorear> (ifunc relocation order)
<jrtc27> huh?
<jrtc27> freebsd does all relocations before ifuncs
<jrtc27> (well, non-ifunc)
<jrtc27> even with eager binding
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<jrtc27> also the __riscv_hwprobe_weak check is pretty crap
<jrtc27> there's no guarantee the relocation for that GOT entry won't be resolved before errno
<jrtc27> plus that's not how weak symbols work
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<jrtc27> it's legitimate for the static linker to resolve them
<sorear> it
<sorear> __riscv_hwprobe_weak is a glibc-internal implementation detail and they can do to themselves whatever they feel like
<sorear> but __riscv_hwprobe_early is being positioned as an application API...?
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