klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<kazinsal> zoinks it's hot out
<kazinsal> air conditioning is struggling to keep up
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<heat> i really don't want to write a gc :(
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<geist> kazinsal: yah no kidding, looks like it's a bit hotter up there
<kazinsal> yeah
<kazinsal> topped out at 93 F today with a feels like of 99
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<bslsk05> ​www.theregister.com: Lead developer of original X rival NeWS looks at why it died • The Register
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<nikolapdp> did NickServ just completely die
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<GeDaMo> It just responded to me
<nikolapdp> yeah it took a while but it responded to me too
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<heat> xterm cross compile looks fucked
<heat> it picks up on host dependencies...
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<Ermine> why would you cross compile xterm
<heat> onyx
<heat> meanwhile i tried running the GNU hello configure script on onyx and i think i'm leaking anonymous memory
<heat> it might be time for the ultimate linux vm larp, clean that shit all up
<Ermine> it's X application, since when do we have X11 there
<Ermine> xterm is
<heat> i have X11 ports locally
<nikolapdp> oh did you get drm working
<Ermine> WOAH
<heat> no, this one's running on fbdev still
<nikolapdp> ah
<Ermine> seems like there's no MINIMAL terminals which aren't naziware and don't require opengl
<heat> xterm doesn't require opengl
<Ermine> besides xterm
<nikolapdp> it's also not minial exactly
<nikolapdp> is it
<heat> xterm is more minimal than konsole or gnome terminal or whatever
<nikolapdp> that is true
<Ermine> xterm makes my eyes weep
<GeDaMo> Are there terminal emulators that only use the framebuffer?
<Ermine> seems like no
<nikolapdp> i am sure there are some
<bslsk05> ​wiki.archlinux.org: KMSCON - ArchWiki
<Ermine> > KMS
<Ermine> it's linux thing
<Ermine> ah, it's not a requirement actually
<Ermine> neither it's x11
<heat> developed by the most mentally sane linux developer
<bslsk05> ​aligrudi/fbpad - A small Linux framebuffer virtual terminal (14 forks/104 stargazers)
<Ermine> then it became systemd-consoled
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<GeDaMo> "I found a bunch of framebuffer terminal emulators, including fbcon, fbterm, bterm, yaft, and fbpad." https://bylr.info/articles/2022/10/29/til-textual-fb-term/
<bslsk05> ​bylr.info: TIL: running Textual on a framebuffer terminal emulator for Linux | bylr.info
<heat> i can only use terminal emulators with glass effect support
<nikolapdp> that disqualifies xterm though
<heat> i know
<heat> i only use BLOATED software like konsole and systemd
<heat> and glibc
<GeDaMo> And onyx? :P
<heat> somewhat
<heat> actually did some memory tuning a month ago or so, made it use significantly less memory at boot
<heat> it was all about tuning slab sizes and making sure i dont e.g touch a 4M-sized kmalloc cache for a one time boot alloc
<heat> it still takes some good memory at boot but the system's large anyway
<Ermine> konsole is fine imo
<Ermine> it comes with some kind of ssh manager but I didn't figure it out yet
<heat> boot to shell takes 20M on my end
<Ermine> -12MB
<Ermine> Great job
<Ermine> enough to fit into my old dir-300 router which only has 32MB of ram
<GeDaMo> For a second I thought that 20M meant minutes :|
<heat> hah no it's mostly instantaneous
<nikolapdp> i managed to boot artix with the default kernel to only use about 40mb of ram with a full x session
<nikolapdp> the kernels have ballooned since though
<nikolapdp> so not sure if that's possible now
<Ermine> take 2.4 kernel and you'll be ok
<heat> except with openrc, openrc with no interesting networking services actively slows down the boot process for 2-3s
<nikolapdp> heat, i'd be worried if it wasn't instant
<nikolapdp> Ermine it was in the 4.x series
<Ermine> vendor's patch for that dir-300 kernel is 30KLOC
<heat> nikolapdp, booting tends to be !instant
<nikolapdp> depending on what you do i guess
<nikolapdp> i assume you aren't enumerating all of physical memory at boot
<heat> sure i am?
<nikolapdp> you aren't doing the deferred thing that linux does
<heat> i'm not
<Ermine> who doesn't enumerate physical memory
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<heat> the deferred linux struct page init thing isn't done by default AFAIK
<nikolapdp> right, don't know that part
<nikolapdp> i guess it's almost instant if you don't need to enumerate terrabytes of ram
<heat> and/or you don't have hard realtime requirements
<Ermine> on systems with such amounts of ram you don't care about os boot times
<heat> you defo do
<Ermine> since POST is already slow af
<heat> there was a fun slideshow somewhere of intel doing micro-optimization for a SoC that was going into a car
<heat> basically they needed boot to be like 1-2s max
<nikolapdp> do SoCs have terrabytes of ram
<heat> no
<nikolapdp> i assume that's what Ermine was referring to
<heat> a lot of it was mem init deferral, async driver probing, i915 quirks
<Ermine> i think those hp servers reached bootloader in 2 or 3 minutes
<netbsduser> apple apparently rejected making boot times fast, in favour of making good use of standby and suspend to disk
<mjg> dude
<Ermine> and that was 64Gb of RAM
<mjg> freebsd was majorly sped up in terms boot
<heat> PESSIMAL MAN IS HERE
<heat> teach me senpai
<mjg> most of it was literally "prod this device, now fucking sleep for a literal second"
<mjg> or rather busy wait
<mjg> tons of legacy shit which either did not need to be there or could have been deferred
<GeDaMo> I remember a trick, possibly on old Macs where they would show a saved image of the desktop while booting before the system was ready for the user
<heat> linux doesn't do async driver init by default for garbage compat reasons
<heat> you need to opt in
<nikolapdp> GARBAG
<Ermine> how much time can linux save if it did async init and deferred struct page init?
<GeDaMo> optimal in, pessimal out
<heat> there it is
<heat> from 3s to 300ms
<bslsk05> ​lpc.events <no title>
<Ermine> noice
<mjg> GeDaMo: now that does not surprise me tho
<mjg> there is a classic: progress bar goes forward while nothing is happening
<mjg> gmail does it for example
<mjg> try it out -- cut your net connection and refresh
<GeDaMo> Knowing that the system is still working is nice :P
<mjg> some ui folk elsewhere told me it's all about "user experience"
<nikolapdp> gmail dropped the html only ui
<nikolapdp> sadge
<mjg> i feel it
<Ermine> nikolapdp: use mail clients
<nikolapdp> yeah i do, i just didn't for gmail because i don't need it that often
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<Ermine> arch fonts config is not great
<nikolapdp> is it
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<heat> i dont get how im leaking the fucking memory :(
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<heat> i found out how i was leaking most of the memory, though there's still a big leak somewhere
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<mjg> no leaks in rust
<mjg> wait
<heat> no leaks in C++ too, but i'm an idiot that thinks he's writing C
<heat> SUPER OPTIMIZED RADIX TREE WHERE THINGS ARE UNSIGNED LONGS isn't too compatible with RAII or anything similar
<mjg> can you please not talk about "super optimized" and onyx
<heat> cry
<heat> i'm faster than your favourite BSDs
<mjg> i am doing it, yes
<mjg> maybe in a speedrun to crash
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<mjg> unless you think obsd is my fav
<heat> i'm faster than net
<mjg> that is expected
<mjg> it's not hard to be faster than free either for the most part
<mjg> fucken damage all over
<mjg> but then again, one pokes at linux...
<mjg> does gcc run under onyx?
<mjg> i happen to have a nasty bench
<heat> yes
<bslsk05> ​dpaste.com <no title>
<mjg> plop a hello world into /tmp/src.c
<heat> i'm debugging a configure script going poopy and leaking memory all over
<mjg> q is how f45t and does it crash if you -j 8
<mjg> or whatever coren you got
<mjg> threaden
<heat> why is that nasty?
<mjg> it wont crash onyx?
<heat> it looks like a normal, eh, uh, configure script
<mjg> run it in parallel
<mjg> 's my thing here
<heat> i'll consider it mon
<heat> i'm dealing with a more important thing here
<mjg> twas a side remark
<heat> i suspect i'm only leaking actual anon memory here, not MAP_PRIVATE anon
<heat> if i create a new branch called vm2 will oracle sue me
<mjg> ask jls for permission
<kazinsal> they'll extrajudicially sentence you to orbital bombardment, but instead of tungsten rods they just drop a lawyer on your house
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<heat> mjg, ironically i'm waiting for that mofer's book before COPYING LITERALLY ALL IDEAS
<mjg> lol
<mjg> n/c
<mjg> does he know you refer to him as 'mofer'
<mjg> :X
<mjg> kind of rude innit
<heat> you are right i did overstep my boundaries
<heat> mofer is for mjg and ermine only
<mjg> indeed, unbecoming for that network
<mjg> it is not for mjguzik thouhg
<heat> OH i've been speaking with a mjguzik fella sometimes
<heat> kinda weird he has the same name as you
<heat> but he does not say mofer so i'm sure it isn't you
<mjg> sounds like dude has a broomstick up his ass
<kof673> so....ye olde winelf toolchain and loader works, notwithstanding a "proc" "prog" typo in an elf struct lol > wine ~/gelfload_mingw32/bin/gelfload-i386.exe obj_winelf_gcc_4_4_2/tmaloc.elf so...yeah....
<bslsk05> ​gist.github.com: gist:33c658fc1ac03da3ba0aa51ca1724483 · GitHub
<gog> hi
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