<Ermine>
in this message you sound like a maintainer
<Ermine>
seems like CSM slowly becomes a thing of past
<nikolapdp>
not reall
<nikolapdp>
qemu just supports bios boot natively
<nikolapdp>
no need for csm
<heat>
csm is a thing of the past in real hw
<nikolapdp>
well my brand new motherboard has it
<nikolapdp>
so not really
<Ermine>
my pc has csm, but it's from 2012
<nikolapdp>
and my laptop has it and it's from a couple of years ago
<nikolapdp>
csm is not going anywhere
<nikolapdp>
at least not quickly
<Ermine>
my laptop doesn't have csm
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<nikolapdp>
> at least not quickly
<geist>
heat_: you got bumped?
<klys_>
and it does work fine, in fact.
<geist>
hmm, whats the most recent machine i've looked at? last i checked they all stil have CSM
<geist>
i assume it's just a basic package that comes with AWARD or whatnot bios
<geist>
the vendor just checks the box and builds it, puts it behind a checkbox in the bios page
<nikolapdp>
as i said not going anywhere yet
<heat_>
geist, bumped?
<geist>
oh you left as heat and came back as heat_
<heat_>
hi, different heat surely
<heat_>
no i have not been bumped by a lack of CSM, but the message coming from intel (and amd I believe, to a lesser extent, mostly because they're less open) is that CSM is gone from intel sillicon packages
<heat_>
it might be AMI or insyde or whatever maintaining their separate CSM awfulness
heat_ is now known as heat
<Ermine>
why all people having audio issues on alpine appear at nights?..
<heat>
survivorship bias
<nikolapdp>
le
<nikolapdp>
lel
<heat>
people having audio issues on alpine during the day had the energy to switch to onyx instead
<nikolapdp>
doubt that
<Ermine>
no doubt
<Ermine>
no audio - no issues
<heat>
amen
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<bslsk05>
'Sun Ray Thin Clients Pt.3: Using Windows' by clabretro (00:31:15)
<mjg>
watch out with the channel
<Ermine>
noice
<nikolapdp>
that's a fun channel
<nikolapdp>
discoverd it myself like a couple of days ago
<mjg>
ye
<mjg>
it suddenly started getting promoted
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<mjg>
that basement is a legit reason to own a ahouse
<mjg>
:d
<nikolapdp>
kek
<nikolapdp>
just stuff your servers there and problem solved
<Ermine>
Good that I didn't remove that arch linux from hdd
<nikolapdp>
are you switching to fedora or something
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<Ermine>
i used fedora on my ssd, but I didn't remove old arch linux which i was using before bying an ssd
<heat>
ARCH LINUX
<heat>
which you use(d), btw
<nikolapdp>
you mean which you use
<heat>
no.
<heat>
i use, btw
<heat>
ermine used, btw
<zid>
what
<heat>
and is now using, btw
<nikolapdp>
zid it's an arch thing, you wouldn't get it
<mjg>
what do you say when you don't use
<zid>
k
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<heat>
i use debian 🤓
<heat>
although if you're a nixos user you already told everyone you use nixos
<nikolapdp>
or you're about to now that you've mentioned it
<mjg>
i know one nixos user and indeed i know it's nixos because i was told
<mjg>
i don't know about the otehrs tho
<mjg>
is that like being a vegan
<heat>
yes
<heat>
you know, having a backup root inode sounds like a solid idea
<nikolapdp>
does ext4 have a backup root inode
<heat>
no
<heat>
let me write that down mon
<mjg>
iscalling someone 'mon' friendly
<heat>
mon is whatever you want it to be
<heat>
it's that good
<mjg>
noice mon
<heat>
it's like buddy
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<Ermine>
there should be difference between 'mon' and 'mofo'
<mjg>
my headcannon is mon is more formal
<mjg>
you know, instead of saying "good day sir" you can "sup mon"
<mjg>
great on funerals 'n shit
<Ermine>
and is "sup mon" more formal?
<nikolapdp>
lol
<mjg>
per my explanation above it's an equivalent of "good day sir"
<heat>
where does mofer fit in
<mjg>
mofer is just a differnet way of saying mofo
<mjg>
perhaps a dimunitive form?
<nikolapdp>
doesn't sound diminutive
<mjg>
well now that i wrote ite
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<mjg>
Ermine is a mofo and heat is mofer
<mjg>
there is something here innit
<heat>
yessir
<Ermine>
mon
<mjg>
mon? yes, that's me
<nikolapdp>
yesmon
<mjg>
dawg
<heat>
mjg, mofer great lockref writeup
<heat>
here's an idea:
<heat>
what if instead of blindly spinning for the lock, at some random point in the retry loop (half? 3/4?) you either try to grab the lock too, or queue yourself into the qspinlock
<mjg>
that does not work
<mjg>
per my explanation doing even one spin already reduces perf at high enough core count
<mjg>
and more importantly when lockref code decides to start taking locks
<mjg>
you may land in a spot where unrelated acquires are gone
<mjg>
and it's only lockref get/put which see the lock is taken and keep taking it after some spins
<mjg>
which defeats the point of the patch
<mjg>
the good news is that lockref as a facility looks trivially avoidable to begin with
<heat>
yeah but wouldn't this smooth out the sharp decline if retry is high enough but not enough to grab the ref?
<mjg>
read the email again mofo, shit goes haywire real fast
<mjg>
text search for '700' to get one example
<mjg>
the thing to do is to not land in the problematic scenario to begin with, which *can* be done
<mjg>
what happens is the dentry lock is taken for tons of ref-unrelated stuff
<mjg>
and with lockref is synchronized with ref by design
<mjg>
this can be decoupled with minor hackery, the entire problem scenario is avoided and perf goes up as one can lock xadd to unlock
<mjg>
instead of cmpxchg in a loop
<mjg>
that and of course full-scale rcu lookup in the fast path, including for terminal entry
<heat>
i know it goes haywire mon
<heat>
i read it
<mjg>
which avoids ref changes tobegin with (not applicable for open though)
<mjg>
the point i'm making there is that whatever fuckspin policy you implement, you are the mercy of threads taking the spinlock
<heat>
i'm just askin if switching halfway to "take ref or get the lock, whatever" is an approach you can switch to
<heat>
like halfway there
<mjg>
if your policy gave up at any point, the entire time was *lost*
<mjg>
as in perf went down
<mjg>
if you spin long enough(tm) to see a free lock you get a win
<mjg>
except there is a corner case where the lock can be continouosly taken
<mjg>
anything past the initial lock access is a perf loss if the lock is always taken
<mjg>
or if it is taken long enough for your policy to give up
<mjg>
so even if you massage it enough to win in some ubench, there will be another ubench where it's not enough
<mjg>
and the entire thing just fundamentally suffers the problem of having to deal with an always acquired lock
<mjg>
which as i explained can be turned into a non-issue by decoupling the refcount from the lock
<mjg>
reasonably easily doable thanks to rcu, the transition to 0 part is even already done
<mjg>
i am going to hack it up after i'm done with some dayjob
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<mjg>
the only difficulty here may be a social one as the linux folk seem to like lockref
<mjg>
it was created specifically for dentries
<mjg>
btw, speaking of real workloads i supposedly never looked at, there is a funny minor perf problem when doing -j 104 package building
<mjg>
i spotted the sucker on freebsd but linux has an equivalent problem
<mjg>
all that stuff loves to '> /dev/null'
<nikolar>
is /dev/null the bottlneck??
<mjg>
opening it is
<nikolapdp>
huh
<mjg>
and not a bottleneck, merely something which does show up on a profile
<mjg>
there are bigger things there
<mjg>
but you get small periods where you have 70-80 threads all deciding to > /dev/null
<mjg>
at the same time
<mjg>
opening the same file for writing at the same time from multiple threads was never considered a real thing from perf standpoint
<heat>
/dev/null is funny
<nikolapdp>
well how often does it happen
<nikolapdp>
unless it's /dev/null
<mjg>
and in the entirety of the build process this is the sole problem
<mjg>
s/problem/case of the above/
<mjg>
i think some one lul build system had a shared log or something, but that was much smaller scale
<mjg>
point tho, who would have guessed opening /dev/null would be a problem
<nikolapdp>
i wouldn't
<mjg>
it is further lulled on linux since they have a GLOBAL FUCKING LOCK guarding all device opens
<mjg>
spin_lock(&cdev_lock);
<mjg>
:d
<mjg>
again not something you normally see
<mjg>
it takes rather adversarial behavior from userspace to show up
<mjg>
and building 30k+ packages, most of which have "lul why would this be a problem, only happens once" slowdowns
<mjg>
note once /dev/null's pop up they tend to be appended to every compiler/whatever teh fuck invocation
<heat>
are you playing around with your 2 sockets system again
<mjg>
so you get a constant stream of these fucks
<mjg>
i have systems ranging from 40 to 104 threads which are freebsd only
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<mjg>
i'm not a dick so i don't linux on them
<heat>
use the bhyve
<mjg>
i do linux at a system at dayjob, but that one is limited
<heat>
say you're testing it :P
<mjg>
i said i'm not a dig
<mjg>
dick even
<mjg>
these are good guys hosting the stuff, i'm not going to add power consumption to do linux
<mjg>
for big linux i'm pestering an ec2 affiliate
<mjg>
i get for example that 192-way amd sucker
<mjg>
or whatever else they offer
<mjg>
this is why i love linux:
<mjg>
chrdev_open
<mjg>
cd_forget
<mjg>
cdev_purge
<mjg>
at least they consistently suffix on this one
<bslsk05>
portal.cfarm.net: The cfarm compile farm project
<heat>
ask for access
<mjg>
what for
<heat>
your linux work
<heat>
they have a bunch of big ass machines
<mjg>
dude
<mjg>
i'm confident this is not suitable for benchmarking
<mjg>
i get bare metal instances on ec2
<mjg>
specifically so that they are not fucked with by other people
<heat>
better than nothing
<heat>
you could try out your code in a 24 core 192 thread ppc machine
<mjg>
i already have better than nothing and more importantly have repeatble results
<nikolapdp>
what is that exactly
<nikolapdp>
can you just request access and that's it?
<mjg>
not "welp someone else was buildin'"
<zid>
If you are working on a piece of free software (GCC or any other GPL, BSD, MIT, ...) and need ssh access to the farm for compilation, debug and test on various architectures you may apply for a cfarm compile farm account.
<heat>
nikolapdp, if you're going to use it for FOSS and you already have a track record yeah
<zid>
I can't use it
<nikolapdp>
huh net
<nikolapdp>
neat
<nikolapdp>
and you can use them as build machines or something?
<heat>
"compilation, debug and test on various architectures"
<nikolapdp>
it just sounds bit too good to be true
<mjg>
heh The R740 is a donation from de.NBI Cloud Bielefeld, while the T8-1 is a permanent loan from Oracle Corporation.
<mjg>
nikolapdp: i don't see why
<zid>
you have to apply, and they can ban you after
<heat>
OH THEY HAVE A SOLARIS HOST WOOOOOOOOO
<zid>
idk why that's too good to be true
<zid>
godbolt also free and they don't even have a vetted signup
<nikolapdp>
yeah how does godbolt pay their servers
<zid>
it's ran off something else
<zid>
I forget what
<zid>
they also have patreon
<heat>
they also have aix hosts
<mjg>
lol
<mjg>
ye just found it
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<mjg>
ngl i would request an account just to mess with it
<zid>
btw the godbolt guy worked on croc for psx, great game
<zid>
I didn't even know it had a PC port until I looked him up and he was the guy that did it
<geist>
yeah it was basically the first thing i wrote for newos
<nikolapdp>
i checked
<nikolapdp>
i have static
<nikolapdp>
in the code
<Ermine>
heat: debugfs may be the case when specifying man section is useful, since there's another debugfs
<heat>
my problem is that writing a procfs is kind of tricky but probably the best course of action
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<geist>
nikolapdp: huh weird. yeah mine throws up with not understood. but i have a slightly later version of the compiler (because of patches)
<geist>
so maybe they made it a little stricter
<nikolapdp>
yeah possibly
<nikolapdp>
merged :)
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<nortti>
honestly a bit surprised to hear the compiler's getting worked on. I guess the changes are much smaller than that, but I'd've expected the first improvement to be support for ANSI function declarations
<geist>
well i remember when i was applying some of the patches there were a few compiler fixes here and there
<nikolapdp>
i have no clue how to check for swap though
<nikolapdp>
ps is supposed to put the process command into parens if it's swapped
<nikolapdp>
but i just get empty parens so seems like corruption of some kind
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<geist>
time to start applying patches!
<nikolapdp>
heh
<nikolapdp>
i have no clue if i have set up the swap correctly at all
<heat>
use a lot of memory and see what happens
<zid>
grab a top binary?
<nikolapdp>
i doubt it would work
<heat>
for i in `seq 1 50`; do sleep 10 &; done
<nikolapdp>
but maybe
<geist>
i can send it to you if you want
<GeDaMo>
Is there some equivalent of 'free'?
<geist>
here lemme get it somewhere
<zid>
steal geist's, figure out why it doesn't work, sounds like a fun project tbh
<nikolapdp>
heh
<nikolapdp>
the closest to free i know of is vmstat
<zid>
brbcat
<nikolapdp>
but it's not particularly useful
<nikolapdp>
geist do you have an ftp server :)
<geist>
i usually just ftp into and out of it, on my local network
<nikolapdp>
heh that would work too
<nikolapdp>
would be funnier if i could ftp directly from you though :P
<zid>
hot pdp on pdp action in your area
<nikolapdp>
kek
<geist>
heh, uucb or gtfo
<geist>
uucp even
<nikolapdp>
yeah no clue how to set that one up lol
<geist>
oh actually that patch seems to do something about static variables in the compiler too
<nikolapdp>
well just the manual steps will take a while
<nikolapdp>
ignoring the compilation
<nikolapdp>
and there are hundreds of them
<nikolapdp>
heh
<nikolapdp>
on an unrelated note, has anyone here used distcc
<geist>
a long time ago
<nikolapdp>
my understanding is that i can use whatever host i want, as long as the target triplet is the same
<geist>
was pretty neat, but you had to be careful to have the exact ssame vrsion of stuff
<nikolapdp>
yeah that's not an issue
<geist>
triplet and really the compiler version too, but i think it doesn't depend on anything but the compiler (ie, no local headers)
<nikolapdp>
just the host arch is what i am interested
<nikolapdp>
from what i understood, the machine that's initiaing the compilation is expanding all the preprosessor stuff locally and sending pure c to other machiens
<nikolapdp>
so headers shouldn't be a factor no?
<geistpdp>
C
<geistpdp>
hmm, thinks it's already here
<heat>
you've just sent a little bit of garbage
<nikolapdp>
oi
<geistpdp>
oh i guess i hadn't really disconnected
<nikolapdp>
no there's two of them
<nikolapdp>
s/no/now
<nikolapdp>
what happened then
<geistpdp>
actually the most annoying problem is it doesn't screen wrap on this terminal
<geistpdp>
so it cuts off the right size of the text
<nikolapdp>
oh that sucks
<nikolapdp>
i didn't encouter that
<nikolapdp>
that would need patching i guess
<heat>
uh i think the terminal you had can enable line wrapping
<geistpdp>
dunno why, it ust actually turn wrap off somehow, i didn't know terminals could be put in no wrap mode
<heat>
yeah they can, even xterm can
<nikolapdp>
another reason i am not encountering that is that i am piping it into tail
<nikolapdp>
erm tee
<nikolapdp>
so maybe that helps?
<heat>
the actual terminal is the problem
<heat>
not 2.11
<nikolapdp>
well i am saying what i am doing
<geist>
yah i had it in 132 column mode last night, but it turned off the term and now it's back in 80
<geist>
but yeah probably need to tweak the sic code to not somehow get it in nowrap mode
<geist>
i'm guessing it does some termios stuff to disable all cooking or something
<nikolapdp>
you could just try piping it through cat
<nikolapdp>
i ak curious if that would work
<heat>
sic doesn't do anything
<geist>
well, i assumed that wrap mode was on by default, and it somehow turned it off
<heat>
i think the DEC reset sequence puts it in 80 column nowrap
<nikolapdp>
possibly
<geist>
i guess eash enough to figure out just cat something with a long ass line and see what it does
<geist>
you're probalby right
<heat>
the reason why i know these things are even a thing is that vttest actually tests for these old ass obscure features
<heat>
you know there's a DEC private sequence that fills your screen with E's?
<geist>
i also need to figure out how to mabually switch the term into 132. i dont like to leave it on all the time, but when power cycle it loses the state, etc
<nikolapdp>
why with Es
<heat>
it was a test sequence
<nikolapdp>
testing what exactly
<heat>
the terminal?
<nikolapdp>
you couldn't just dump text, you needed special sequence?
<geist>
hex 45, decimal 69
<geist>
hehe ehehehe e 69
<zid>
cat program_terminal.txt
<heat>
whoever designed it is probably dead anyway
<heat>
so we'll never know
<nikolapdp>
maybe not
<zid>
fill it with sexy ansi escapes for any software settings you want
<nikolapdp>
hehe funny number
<geist>
i do remember figuring out one way on a whiteboard at work that there are particular bytes that help a uart resynchronize at n81
<geist>
if you have characters back to back and it gets out of whack it may take a while to re-discover the start bit
<geist>
but there are particular characters that cannot be interpreted any other way
<geist>
and i fyou spam a few of those it'll make sure the receiver resyncs
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<geist>
though really 0xff ought to do it
<zid>
I wonder if I can just send ansi vt stuff over irc to nic's basic bitch irc client and get it to do silly things
<geist>
since that'll just drop the line for 9 bit times i think
<nikolar>
You could
<geist>
oh no 0xff doesn't work if the chars are back to back
<nikolar>
Especially because the emulator isn't interpreting most of the sequences
<geist>
yo need something like 0xfe so that it at least rises at the end
<nikolar>
Interesting
<zid>
oh right you're not emulating a real terminal
<zid>
just have a virtual one
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<nikolar>
Basically it's passing through most sequences to my terminal emulator from what I can tell
<nikolar>
Which is tmux
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<heat>
of course
<heat>
those old unices do not have a virtual terminal or anything of sorts
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<nikolar>
Yeah but the emulator might
<geist>
heat: well, they do have ptys of some sort, which has to emulate some amount of it
<geist>
at least 2.11BSD. i dunno when ptys came into existance in unix timeline
<geist>
may have been a BSD thing
<geist>
though i guess the pty is mosty just doing buffering and ctrl-c and whatnot
<heat>
ptys do not interpret sequences
<nikolar>
And backspace
<geist>
more like smackblace amirite?
<heat>
a tty is just a magic pipe, a pty is a magic pipe to some other fd you control
<heat>
*until you have to deal with tabs and backspace oh god oh god what the fuck is this
<Ermine>
btw maybe I should install arch instead of fedora given the opportunity
<geist>
it's a magic pipe full of some good shit
<geist>
blaze up!
<heat>
no geist, ttys are definitely not full of good shit
<nikolar>
Yeah backspace is the annoying one
<heat>
no one knows how to delete a tab properly
<geist>
though i haven't done it in a while i guess if you're utf8 compliant you havve to backspace over multi byte words?
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<heat>
utf-8 is not the problem
<geist>
sure, but wouldn't you need to do that anyway?
<heat>
do what?
<geist>
like how is it defined to deal with utf-8 in the reverse direction?
<heat>
it deletes whole codepoints
<geist>
well, if you are 8 bytes in, and the last char was a two byte sequence, and you backspace, seems like you'd remove back a whole 2 bytes
<heat>
yes
<geist>
point being that most code doesn't need to deal with utf-8 explicit, but that's a case where actually you do need to know about it
<Ermine>
I guess you need a function which could tell you how many bytes you need to remove under given encoding
<heat>
assuming a tty erases bytes by doing "\b \b"
<heat>
how many "\b \b" do you need to echo when erasing a tab
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<geist>
oh i was mostly thinking about a pty, as it's caching up a line
<geist>
and it's just a sequence of bytes at that point, hasn't been rendered yet
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<heat>
basically what i'm trying to get at is that the tty layer is an awful translation layer thingy that does not have all the information it would need to do its job
<bslsk05>
'Sun Ray Thin Clients Pt.3: Using Windows' by clabretro (00:31:15)
<mjg>
geist: no joke recommendation
<mjg>
i'm bingin'
<geist>
yep. i watch his stuff sometimes
<heat>
and it also can't do stuff like VT escape esquences because it has no idea if the thing connected to the other end is a vt
<mjg>
i only recently found out about the guy
<geist>
i've seen probably 20 or so of his vids. pretty good, though he bumbles around a lot
<mjg>
i never seen him linked here either
<geist>
like, i'm yelling at the screen no yo ujust need to do that
<geist>
but he plays with a lot of cisco gear which is interesting if nothing else
<mjg>
i die a little everytime someone boots a linux on a sun box
<mjg>
have some decency
<geist>
i do remember drinking that thin client koolaid back in the 90s. we had a bunch of X terms at school and they were generally more powerful than the corresponding win95 boxes, because ifnothing else there was a beefy server box behind it
<nikolar>
Did you get that access
<geist>
i think those days are clearly gone, since you need a supercomputer to run a web browser nowadyas, and need the horsepower local
<geist>
but the notion of a thin little fanless box that could run on the beefy box was pretty neat
<mjg>
even then the portable devices are too good now
<mjg>
if they insisneted they could make a phone-sized thin client box
<mjg>
you come over somewhere and bam
<mjg>
with all compute locally
<mjg>
kind of like a lighter laptop
<mjg>
except i don't know who would want that and forego a laptop
<heat>
dave miller gets off on people booting linux on sun boxes
<nikolar>
Yeah touchscreens are probably the worst input devices ever
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<mjg>
don't touch screen
<mjg>
i am saying you would use the phone-sized thing instead of the card
<mjg>
you would get a full blown monitor, keyboard 'n shit
<mjg>
like a docking station, except with a phone-like device
<Ermine>
microsoft had the same thing for windows 10 mobile for like 2 years before dex, but it didn't help win10 mobile to take off
<nikolar>
win10 mobile was crap regardless of how you use it
<Ermine>
It was somewhat cool
<nikolar>
Sure
<nikolar>
But crap overall
<Ermine>
no
<mjg>
heat: im gonna claim i thought about it first
<mjg>
how is that doing anyway
<heat>
you used to be able to run linux on dex apparently
<heat>
but then they realized their users kiss women
<mjg>
so it's solaris now?
<nikolar>
Run Linux on dex?
<nikolar>
What do you mean
<heat>
"Samsung also announced "Linux on Galaxy" (since renamed to "Linux on DeX") which allows use of a compatible Linux distribution rather than the default Android OS giving full personal computer capabilities"
<mjg>
huh
<mjg>
this reminded me of people hacking playstation to boot linux
<heat>
it wasn't a hack
<Ermine>
linux on playstation was official
<mjg>
there was totally a hack
<mjg>
there was ps3 or 4 when it was not
<heat>
ps2 and ps3 were official sony things
<nikolar>
On PS2
<nikolar>
It was officel
<mjg>
it was defo banned
<heat>
ps4 was running FREEBSD!!!!!!
<heat>
see, freebsd users!
<mjg>
i don't remember which one
<mjg>
heat: did you know freebsd pushes 1/3rd of the internet traffic
<mjg>
trust me, i'm a fanboy
<Ermine>
netflix! whatsapp!
<heat>
mjg: did you know freebsd pushes 4/5ths of the internet traffic
<nikolar>
Is this 1/3rd of the internet traffic in the room with us now
<mjg>
Ermine: whatsapp is on linux now
<Ermine>
oof
<mjg>
Ermine: since fb bayout
<mjg>
buyout
<mjg>
nikolar: it already left to the next hop
<heat>
whatsapp should also be able to enjoy buggy zswap
<nikolar>
Lel
<Ermine>
that buyout happened a long before I've read about whatsapp in fbsd docs
<mjg>
there were freebsd users which did nto undersatnd why netflix client does not work there
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<nikolar>
drm stuff?
<mjg>
i don't know why specifically either, i am just sayin there is no symmetry here
<mjg>
one can't be expected
<nikolar>
True
<mjg>
fuckin Shitnite gamesevers are probably all linux
<mjg>
does the game work on anything but windows
<mjg>
wait i was supposed to be more positive
<nikolar>
Macos maybe?
<Ermine>
same goes for mihoyo games
<nikolar>
And android even
<mjg>
i don't know if phoens count in this context
<mjg>
besides phone gaming not real gaming cmv
<nikolar>
I agree
<nikolar>
But you asked where it ran
<heat>
fortnite has a phone version i think
<heat>
pubg had one
<mjg>
oy let me complain mon
<nikolar>
Why had?
<nikolar>
Pretty sure they still have
<mjg>
genuine question: do any of you overwatch?
<nikolar>
No
<mjg>
is the game dead now? (even 2)
<nikolar>
No clue
<Ermine>
pubg has a phone version
<Ermine>
fortnite doesn't
<heat>
i used to csgo
<nikolar>
Is there an iOS version ermine?
<heat>
but now i can't run it :(
<Ermine>
nikolar: why are you asking me?
<mjg>
heat: arch btw?
<heat>
arch what
<Ermine>
I believe that heat has windows
<heat>
i dual boot
<mjg>
so what happened
<mjg>
actually why tf do you dual boot anyway
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<mjg>
for osdev?
<heat>
games and Important Stuff
<heat>
like videocalls
<mjg>
i mean why not stick to windows as base
<mjg>
and linux in a vm
<heat>
lol
<mjg>
what
<Ermine>
`kek
<mjg>
if i was gamin' and shit and needed windows, that's what i would be doing
<mjg>
lol @ dual boot
<Ermine>
kek @ vm
<Ermine>
linux graphics don't work very good in vms
<Ermine>
except probably vmware workstation
<heat>
yeah vms have a miserable desktop experience generally
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<mjg>
you sure mofos
<heat>
unless you, idk, gpu passthrough
<mjg>
have you tried virtualbox guest additions?
<heat>
yes
<Ermine>
ofc
<mjg>
i have not tried that with linux, but with windows it was great
<Ermine>
just in case, I maintain those in Alpine
<mjg>
went on a fuckin' limb here and assumed it woudl carry over
<mjg>
bummer
<heat>
i mean with windows too
<heat>
it is complete ass
<mjg>
weird
<heat>
latency-ridden experience
<Ermine>
windows is quite useable actually
<mjg>
so why not wsl or whatever the fuck
<heat>
i switched over before wsl
<mjg>
you like arch on bare metal?
<Ermine>
wsl is basically a vm
<heat>
yes i do actually
<mjg>
he could terminal 'n shit in wsl
<mjg>
have the browser on windows
<mjg>
but you do you
<mjg>
just sayin dual booting is a misreable experience
<heat>
i prefer to do most of my things on linux
<geist>
to be precise, WSL2 is a VM
<Ermine>
I even can play games on winXP in vmware
<geist>
WSL1 was a syscall emulation of linux. different set of expectations
<geist>
WSL2 is quite solid
<heat>
mjg, why miserable?
<heat>
i have 0 dual booting issues
<geist>
OTOH i dual boot just fine. it's great
<heat>
i've dual booted for like 9 years now
<mjg>
rly?
<geist>
yeah been dual booting for.... i dunno 25 years?
<nikolar>
Yeah I had 0 dual booting issues while I was going that too
<Ermine>
what's miserable about dual booting?
<mjg>
i come over to my workstation, plop, unsuspends... and it's all set
<nikolar>
*doing
<mjg>
i am talking convenience
<geist>
my main gaming/workstation machine i've always dual booted since like college
<heat>
the only difference is that i have a grub menu when i turn my machine on
<geist>
well sometimes convenience is just not a big deal
<mjg>
got all my terminals, browsers, vpn etc.
<mjg>
well you do you mate
<geist>
like, i dont have a barista that makes me coffee at home, but i dont really care that much
<Ermine>
And then you suffer in vm
<nikolar>
Yeah screw windblows
<heat>
ughh i hate microcrapper winfuck
<mjg>
you ok heat
<heat>
yes
<Ermine>
MICROSHILL WINCRAP
<mjg>
i used to hate on microsoft in high school
<geist>
but, honestly the convenience went up a lot when i can just run chrome in either environment, so i basically switch to the other boot every few days because of some thing i want to do
<mjg>
admittedly it was great
<geist>
but both windows and linux remember my windows layout and whatnot
<geist>
so it's mostly just a mode switch between playing games and hackin codez
<Ermine>
In high school I was MS lover
<geist>
and all told the switch is like a 2 minutes
<Ermine>
So I even got Lumia
<heat>
geist, i think firefox is extra saucey when it comes to tab sync
* mjg
is embarassed for Ermine
<heat>
hey
<heat>
i'm still a MS lover for money
<heat>
pay me $$ and i'll start speaking PVOID mon
<mjg>
whore
<mjg>
if you watches sopranos i would call you a whoooa
<Ermine>
I've got 1TB of onedrive storage back then
<mjg>
go watch that show mon
<geist>
and the rest of the time i'm on mac. like i am right now, so it's a mode switch all the time for me, not a prob since like 75% of my time is typing into basically the same web browser
<Ermine>
and even made an attempt to switch to IE from Chrome
<levitating>
heat were you that person running microsoft accounting software in dosbox
<levitating>
or was that someone else
<heat>
not me
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<mjg>
geist: sounds like you have grown used to multiple setups
<geist>
indeed
<mjg>
geist: i have grown used to one
<geist>
that being said by far the biggest one that's different is mac, but for the workloads i do on it, which is mostly run chrome, it's fine
<heat>
i agree with geist
<heat>
like, chrome is chrome
<heat>
the keyboard works the same, the mouse works the same
<heat>
then the tasks i do in windows are completely different from linux
<geist>
oh yah and chromebooks, i use those too for work and i have a derpy one on the coffee table
<geist>
same thing, just chrome no biggie
<geist>
right, that's the key, if you boot into the OS to do different tasks, it's already kind a context switch anyway
<nikolar>
heat that's where you're wrong
<Ermine>
Yay, homedir is saved
<nikolar>
The keyboard doesn't work the same on a mac
<mjg>
i code on windows and game on linux
<mjg>
great stuff
<heat>
i know that's why i had a miserable experience with mac
<nikolar>
Maybe because I'm on a non us keyboard
<nikolar>
But still
<geist>
well that's where i enjoy mac better, it has a much more logical key structure
<heat>
geist, did you ever run fuchsia on your (i assume) pixelbook?
<geist>
notably with the addition on the command key
<geist>
heat: yep.
<heat>
heh nice
<geist>
we had the armadillo thing and it actually ran pretty nicely
<netbsduser>
it's a shame the applers don't write books
<nikolar>
I didn't find much logic in the mac key bindings
<geist>
that's why i have a pixelbook, its googles, technically
<Ermine>
Now I wonder if I can salvage my lxc containers
<netbsduser>
i would like to read an XNU book
<heat>
geist, still dogfooding?
<geist>
no
<heat>
:(
<geist>
i have chromeos on it now
<geist>
and use it for work as a lightweight laptop to carry around
<Ermine>
how much lightweight?
<nikolar>
I got a pinebook
<nikolar>
Waiting for it to arrive
<geist>
oh i dunno. it's a uh.
<Ermine>
nikolar: nice
<heat>
Ermine, you can salvage anything that's not in the first block groups
<geist>
amazon says 2.45 lbs, so like uh 1.5kg?
<heat>
note that this doesn't exactly mean your files are 100% intact, but it's a lot likelier they are (unless you had disk space trouble)
<geist>
er wait, 2.2, just a smidge over 1kg
<Ermine>
ah, not so lightweight
<geist>
well, vs the 15" macbook pro i am typing on here, which i dont particularly like to carry around
<geist>
looks like that weighs about 2.45kb
<Ermine>
heat: I think it's the manageable amount of damage
<geist>
kg even
<Ermine>
I didn't expect to recover that much anyway
<nikolar>
I am going to run some softwarez on it
<heat>
Ermine, how did you find your /home?
<heat>
did you craft a dir entry then find over the partition?
<geist>
but re: dual booting, one last thing i'd like to say is i spend about 80% of the time in linux. i basically reboot to play games, and then leave it there until the next time i want to hack on something seriously
<Ermine>
I looked for dir inodes belonging to me
<geist>
then i switch back to linux and leave it there
<heat>
oh that's a PITA no?
<geist>
FSes with fixed location inodes FTW
<geist>
that's the biggest advantage, each to recover a pretty corrupted dir structure
<mjg>
huh
<heat>
my idea was like: say you have file abcdef (something unique-ish), find the dir entry over the partition, go offset -> block -> inode, then go back up or down as needed to find your ~
<mjg>
the true answer is to make backups, sorry
<mjg>
(which btw zfs makes very easy)
<nikolar>
I game on Linux
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<heat>
Ermine, btw if you're savvy enough you can pipe some commands down debugfs's throat and get a damage report on your ~ files
<geist>
for a while i did too, but honestly like the context switch. just enough of a barrier to rebooting to keep me from getting distracted when a compile is taking too long or i hit a hard programming problem
<geist>
so i kinda have a no-gaming-on-linux rule
<mjg>
:D
<mjg>
i have to confess something
<mjg>
10 years ago i dual booted my laptop to windows to play some quek
<mjg>
at some point i could not be fucked to boot back to linux to work
<mjg>
so i kept playing
<mjg>
:d
<geist>
it's a gateway drug, games
<mjg>
was MIA for 2 days as far as my boss knew
<geist>
rots your brain, etc
<mjg>
's what you love about them innit
<mjg>
my best "experience" here was playing some quek on freebsd, maybe 20 years ago
<Ermine>
heat: no, I don't think I will
<mjg>
i was running wmii
<mjg>
middle of the summer
<heat>
i find osdev to be more addicting than games
<mjg>
i look at the clockm maybe 4 pm
<mjg>
i play some games
<mjg>
i look at the clock, 4 pm
<mjg>
i play some more games
<mjg>
turns out the statusbar broke and i played till like 8 pm
<mjg>
:d
<Ermine>
Things are looking good
<nikolar>
I mean I don't play much
<nikolar>
Mostly on my deck
<nikolar>
Basically one game :P
<Ermine>
So far I don't know better ways to detect dirs other than statting each inode
<geist>
oh i tend to work on very long epic rpgs or story driven games., working on one at a time like watching some new shot
<geist>
show. *still* working on the last FF7 remake
<geist>
i'm like 60 hours in dunno where the end is
<mjg>
ooh mon
<geist>
then i'll probalby finish up horizon zero dawn 2 and then back to zelda from last year
<mjg>
i randomly ran into a guy playing fallout 2
<mjg>
replaying with random builds and whatnot
<mjg>
i am so happy i did not pick that up
<geist>
yah i stay away from builder games like factorio or whatnot too. i can dump way too much time into that
<mjg>
you can mess with the game on repeat, you can easily lose a month
<geist>
i like to experience a story, sort of like reading a great book, or a good movie
<geist>
and then be done with it so i can move on
<mjg>
:)
<mjg>
call me lame all you want, i don't play games anymore but do sometimes watch a playrhtough
<mjg>
no commentary
<geist>
exploration games too
<mjg>
i really dont' want to actively put effort int oa fuckin game
<geist>
oh 100% i've been watching Arcas speed run NES games of my youth a lot too
<geist>
just sort of on in the background
<mjg>
ye, people podcast 'n stuff, i watch a video game
<mjg>
story-driven
<mjg>
(assuming i don't podcast myself >)
<geist>
yah. i'vefound watching someone play a final fantasy or whatnot game is about as good as doing it yourself
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<geist>
i dont quite get that kick with exploratino games like zelda or whatnot
<mjg>
that sounds like blasphemy tbh
<mjg>
make sure to not mention it to actual gamers
<geist>
but for something that's story driven it's not *too* different
<geist>
OTOH i long since figured out that i cannot multitask. of if i do i am really not that productive
<geist>
like on the surface level of productivity, only useful for things with a lot of waiting
<geist>
but no ability to deeply think if i'm even remotely multitasking
<mjg>
stuff in the background is great if you bisect or do some other luller
<geist>
right
<mjg>
save the brainpower to problems which need invesstigating
<geist>
i can still listen to music but i have to turn off all chats, notifications and whatnot to deeply think about anything
<mjg>
i don't music in the background
<mjg>
it's a habit which adds nothing imo and should not be hard to break
<mjg>
and i am saying this is a person who was walking everyone with a mp3 player for years
<mjg>
one day it broke and bam, turns out i don't give af
* mjg
recommends trying out
<geist>
i h onestly dont like walking around listening to music, but i've found that you at least need to have headphones on if you're walking around the city streets
<geist>
or you get panhandled
<geist>
headphones send the sign that you're not interested
<geist>
otherwise i dont particularly like to reduce my hearing, if nothing else for safety purposes
<mjg>
rarely happens to me, maybe il ook poor
<heat>
i exclusively go out listening to music
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<zid>
geist showing off his executive function, smh
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<geist>
wat
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<zid>
which bit
<klys_>
0x00000000
<zid>
That's none bits!
<klys_>
perror( "memory" );
<Ermine>
so... how can I translate offset to a block
<klys_>
offset / sizeof( struct block )
<nikolar>
Kek
<zid>
I've been playing kingdom hearts, does that count as having executive function do you think nikolar
<nikolar>
Are you executing some functions
<zid>
no?
<nikolar>
Then no
<zid>
I'm not sure that's what that means
<klys_>
if executing functions means I have to make a sandwich
<nikolar>
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<zid>
I'd execute loads of functions if it completed my chores
<zid>
and appeared sandwiches
<klys_>
of course sliced ham is p.expensive compared to polish sausages
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