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<zid>
serbia just disappeared from the internet ^
<kazinsal>
clownstrike strikes again
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<mjg>
what not?
<mjg>
what now?
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<kazinsal>
I love that their official line is that "you're still protected" and that it'll "automatically fix itself" if you reboot between 3 and 15 times on average hoping that the network stack is online long enough before it BSODs that the fixed file gets pulled down
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<nikolar>
zid: probably a netsplit
<zid>
nope
<zid>
serbia's internet blipped
<kazinsal>
bgp is like, hard, man
<zid>
is it monday now btw
<kazinsal>
nope
<kazinsal>
clownstrike has not let you teleport 24 hours into the future
<kazinsal>
or 48 or whatever
<kazinsal>
I've lost track of time
<kazinsal>
too much time lost to clownstrike
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<froggey>
oh, isn't windows great
<mjg>
this is not a windows problem per se though
<kazinsal>
this isn't windows' fault
<mjg>
this is a massive fuckup by a lol vendor
<kazinsal>
this is dumbshit AV companies not fuzzing their shit
<mjg>
the same thing could have happened in linux
<kazinsal>
and executing arbitrary sequences as bytecode
<mjg>
someone claims the affected file is all 0s
<kazinsal>
it is, yeah
<mjg>
so it's not necessarily that they did not test their code
<kazinsal>
a valid 64-byte channel file header followed by 40K of garbage
<kazinsal>
all zeroes
<mjg>
but something got fucked during deployment
<GeDaMo>
There was a post on Hacker News saying that they has a similar Croudstrike problem with their Linux machines a few months ago
<mjg>
basically the yhave a deffective deployment practice
<bslsk05>
news.ycombinator.com: Crowdstrike did this to our production linux fleet back on April 19th, and I've ... | Hacker News
<froggey>
wow, did someone install windows defender in the channel. better than croudstrike i guess
<kazinsal>
someone pushed dev to prod without testing and it rolled out to a few tens of millions of machines and kacked em\
<kazinsal>
I am hoping that this breaks clownstrike so we can go back to defender endpoint on everything
<mjg>
i am sayin' proper procedure would sign the driver, then do the testing 'n shit
<kazinsal>
the core driver was signed
<mjg>
then if if the corrupt thingy got out, it would not load cause it would not match the checksum
<kazinsal>
the problem is the core driver is also a bytecode VM
<kazinsal>
and the dipshits at clownstrike didn't put in any safeguards for malformed bytecode files or fuzz their VM or anything
<mjg>
let me restate
<mjg>
sign+checksum -> testing -> publish -> things land
<mjg>
suppose someone fucked up publishing
<froggey>
the problem is that shitass windows drivers have been around for longer than kazinsal has been alive and windows still constantly eats shit because of them
<mjg>
the landed driver would simplyfail to load due to bad checksum
<zid>
it's cool they have an eBPF version
<mjg>
et voila, no bsod
<mjg>
merely disabled
<froggey>
like at some point it's an institutional issue with windows
<mjg>
still a problem of course, but not a mind-boggling breakge
<kazinsal>
I have dealt with shit-ass windows drivers for as far as I can remember right up until now running the server infrastructure for a major public university in western canada thank you very much
<GeDaMo>
Does Windows have an equivalent of eBPF?
<zid>
not that I know of
<mjg>
they have dtrace
<kazinsal>
GeDaMo: technically, yes. there is an eBPF implementation for windows
<mjg>
not quite an equivalent, but it may be depending on your needs
<mjg>
you are trying to dodge the driver with it?
<mjg>
oh heh nice
<kazinsal>
but apart from that it's signed drivers running ultralight kernel thread based processes in ELAM mode
<mjg>
TIL
<mjg>
i think part of security model would be thate bpf can't fuck with not loading drivers tho
<kazinsal>
in base Windows Server etc. there isn't a direct mechanism like eBPF
<kazinsal>
but it's definitely doable
<kazinsal>
I haven't looked into the details of how the eBPF engine for NT works but I suspect it uses ELAM
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<kazinsal>
actually it looks like it just uses a shim attached to a standard core kernel driver
<kazinsal>
which intercepts tcpip.sys and ndis.sys
<GeDaMo>
I wonder how long before Crowdstrike changes their name :P
<kazinsal>
probably after they get sued into bankruptcy
<kazinsal>
for breaking dozens of major airlines and a distressing number of emergency services across north america
<zid>
They already got named clownstroke a while back
<zid>
maybe they could use that officially
<mjg>
will that do anything tho
<mjg>
normally all this shit ships with NO WARRANTY FOR ANY PURPOSE
<kazinsal>
they'll need to declare bankruptcy, divest, probably feed their CEO into a woodchipper
<kazinsal>
their CEO is the same guy who was McAfee's CTO that time they bricked hundreds of thousands of XP machines in like 2010
<mjg>
the ceo will land with millions of dollars with their exit package
<mjg>
and you can bet he made off with millions after that incident
<froggey>
and he can do it all again in a few years
<GeDaMo>
They'll try to kill him by dumping a lot of money on him :|
<kazinsal>
he quit and started clownstrike lol
<mjg>
what happened in the mcafee case
<kazinsal>
I just hope the guy who hit the button to cause all this has faked his death and moved to belize
<bslsk05>
www.zdnet.com: Defective McAfee update causes worldwide meltdown of XP PCs | ZDNET
<mjg>
i mean tech standpoint
<kazinsal>
I hear back jungle drug labs are profitable there
<kazinsal>
isn't that mr john whalefucker mcafee
<mjg>
> The problem is a false positive which identifies a regular Windows binary, "svchost.exe", as "W32/Wecorl.a", a virus.
<mjg>
lol
<froggey>
classic
<mjg>
genius
<mjg>
probably someone inverted an if statement
<kazinsal>
reminds me of that other C-something security vendor a while back that managed to brick by bootlooping in lsass
<froggey>
windows strikes again, "oh yes lets let random third party vendors delete critical parts of our os"
<kazinsal>
imagine if you could sudo curl random shit into bash
<mjg>
so to be clear, there is no emergency plan how to get out of a botched update?
<mjg>
i thought windows had something with system snapshots 'n shit
<mjg>
since windows 98 or so
<kazinsal>
yeah you can do that
<kazinsal>
it works fine
<mjg>
or maybe 2000
<kazinsal>
or you can manually remove the bad bytecode archive
<froggey>
oh yes, deliberately and manually granting something admin access is definitely the same as an automatic background update
<kazinsal>
the thing that was a nightmare was on a) servers and b) bitlockered
<kazinsal>
servers need a bit of extra massaging
<kazinsal>
bitlockered endpoints need an on site thing because it's a fully encrypted volume set
<GeDaMo>
Can you not do something through that Intel Minix thing?
<kazinsal>
not realistically
<kazinsal>
maybe with enough time and effort put into it but like, you're now at the point of trying to use the AMT to intercept a very specific point in time
<kazinsal>
because you need the bitlockered volume to have its decryption applied and the key in memory, then need to be able to use that key to progressively decrypt, parse, update, and re-encrypt the volume
<kazinsal>
you're stealing the shirt off newton's back faster than the speed of light and selling it back to einstein for a markup
<kof673>
so...the cat is alive?
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<kazinsal>
on top of that the AMT can't actually see into the OS-level state of things out of the box. it's like a layer running approximately equivalent to SMM
<ToadRageThe5th1>
this is probably going to be more useful than literally anything else on the internet about OSDev
<gog>
debatable
<ToadRageThe5th1>
Well, it would depend on the day
<gog>
most days are me being offtopic
<gog>
i'm considering working on things today but my job is rather demoralizing and makes me want to never program again
<ToadRageThe5th1>
I don't have a job
<karenthedorf>
This place and the (unrelated) osdev discord.
<karenthedorf>
Are both the best and worst sources of advice, depending who's active
<ToadRageThe5th1>
There is a Discord for that? I should join it.
<Ermine>
I'm also mostly off-topic here
<GeDaMo>
I'm mainly here to heckle :P
<ToadRageThe5th1>
That's unfortunate
<gog>
but if you have questions we usually stop with nonsense to answer
<Mutabah>
People here _can_ be on-topic, when called for
<ToadRageThe5th1>
So it's your average niche online community
<gog>
yes
<ToadRageThe5th1>
I think I have been writing the worlds literal worst makefile
<ToadRageThe5th1>
at least it's direct
<karenthedorf>
There's a such thing as a good makefile?
<ToadRageThe5th1>
lmao fair point
<ToadRageThe5th1>
I've seen the Linux makefile, it's a hot convoluted mess
<karenthedorf>
Linux basically make it's own build system language on top of Make.
* Matt|home
googles what to do on the weekend
<ToadRageThe5th1>
I feel like that's just what happens when you include enough makefiles into the main one
<gog>
cakefiles
<gog>
files that deliver cake to my face
<ToadRageThe5th1>
mmmmm
<ToadRageThe5th1>
yummy
* Ermine
delivers cheese to gog instead
<karenthedorf>
Recursive Make Considered Harmful
<zid>
If you have basic questions about amd64 then I can misremember the intel sdm for you!
<zid>
karenthedorf: you were the ioapic person right?
<karenthedorf>
zid: I feel like that's a very common skill in this channel. I to can misremember the SDM for people.
<zid>
was definitely a k*
<Ermine>
i can misremember sdm too!
<karenthedorf>
Yes, I'm the person trying to get serial port interrupts working before I have a working PMM/VMM
<zid>
did you fiddle all the bits yet?
<zid>
we figured out which bits to fiddle but you hadn't written them in yet
<zid>
for an updated info pic / info irq / whatever
<karenthedorf>
I haven't had a chance to fiddle with the ioapic yet. It's still all masked off
<zid>
fair enough
* gog
is fascinated
<karenthedorf>
I've disabled the legacy PIC and fiddled with the lAPIC a bit. But that's not enough to get things from outside yet.
<zid>
I just used the pic interrupts because I was lazy, enough to get my ethernet sending frames
<karenthedorf>
That would probabally be simpler to setup actually.
<zid>
and that's where I left it last time I cared
<karenthedorf>
I mean, even simpler is to sit in a polling loop :D
<zid>
finding the right mixture of executive function and inspiration is hard
<zid>
I sorely lack the former
<zid>
and the latter is only sporadic
<gog>
i've given up and found a retailer that has the exact chassis my laptop has and paid £120 for it
<karenthedorf>
Our executive is split down the middle.
<zid>
gog: You hold down a job, can I borrow some of yours
<zid>
executive function that is, n ot some of your job
<karenthedorf>
And Rhiannon's half of our brain has seizures.
<zid>
your job sounds like a pain
<gog>
my executive function only operates for pay
<gog>
or worry that my wife is mad at me
<zid>
I can't even get mine to work for pay, that's a far future
<ToadRageThe5th1>
My makefile is trying to compile target "all" :'(
<zid>
I think what I need is a dominatrix, but who tells me to write code and stuff
<zid>
ToadRageThe5th1: is the first rule called 'all'
<karenthedorf>
zid Mine would work for pay, except trying to find a job that doesn't involve us commuting by car (see above comment about seizures) is turning out to be a bitch.
<ToadRageThe5th1>
yess
<zid>
I may have figured out why it's doing that then
<karenthedorf>
The first rule in a makefile is the 'default' rule if you don't specify one
<ToadRageThe5th1>
yes
<zid>
zomg spoilers
<ToadRageThe5th1>
but it is trying to compile the target, instead of running the rule
<ToadRageThe5th1>
as it is supposed to do
* karenthedorf
wonders if they should make the first rule 'run' instead of all. Since the most common make command they run is `make run` which builds all then starts up qemu.
<gog>
post your makefile
<karenthedorf>
Oh, .PHONY is your friend then?
<ToadRageThe5th1>
I am just trying to test the build before I run on qemu, one step at a time
<zid>
yea you're not supposed to have rules that.. "run"
<zid>
you're supposed to have a dependency tree of files
<zid>
but you can sort of make fake files with .phony yea
<zid>
Good news, my mind just wandered and I thought of a bad joke I want to ask a real little person, "What kind of dwarf are you, achondroplasia or blacksmith?"
<zid>
please don't let me outside
<gog>
there's no worry of that between june and september
<gog>
you will crisp
<zid>
It's mild today but humid as fuck
<zid>
lots of cloud cover
<ToadRageThe5th1>
Sounds like our days here in maine for the past month
<gog>
it's sunny here and hot af in my house. i want to open the windows but i don't want to let the cat out
<ToadRageThe5th1>
Mildly annoying
<zid>
I'm told the days in maine are mainly on the plain
<karenthedorf>
It is cloudy here in the middle of the UK. After the last two days of melting.
<zid>
I've not seen my cat all day actually
<zid>
it is isn't it
<karenthedorf>
Why do we build houses super-mega insulated with large windows, central heating, and no AC.
<zid>
I'm in the east not the middle though
<zid>
I'm so east that people from derby are horrendously northern to me
<ToadRageThe5th1>
Yeah, Maine (summer) days are lovely at a gorgeous 60 degrees on average or smth
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<Matt|home>
yeah im actually a little annoyed/pissed off. it's really hot out but im bored being stuck inside staring at a screen all day. guess i'll use this as an excuse to finish the next part of my C++ project
<ToadRageThe5th1>
Ew, C++
<ToadRageThe5th1>
no judgement towards you
<Matt|home>
hush u
* Matt|home
refrains from screaming a never-ending rant
<zid>
Lots of judgement from me to anyone who uses C++ recreationally
<Matt|home>
ur opinion doesn't count :p
<zid>
If they use it professionally I treat it more like an abusive hostage situation
<karenthedorf>
c++ for osdev? What are you, a Windows kernel dev?
<Matt|home>
i never said i was doing kernel dev right now
<Matt|home>
but yes i recently switched back to windows and ironically it was the best thing i've ever done for my career
<Matt|home>
my kernel is written in C
* Matt|home
lights a bowl and passes it around
<ToadRageThe5th1>
I'm writing my kernel in C aswell
<Matt|home>
this is totally off-topic, but if anyone's free to pm can i get some advice on a very generic/boring program im writing? im not sure how to proceed
<Matt|home>
hm actually, i think i found out what im supposed to do :D i dunno if it's the correct one, but i chose it so it's obviously the right one
<zid>
me: muggy outside today gog: if all the mugs are outside on the lawn again I will fuck you up me: *flees*
* karenthedorf
returns to their lapic init code. Deletes everything and starts again in xapic2 mode
<ToadRageThe5th1>
Maybe I should have actually done a lot more practice coding before I started coding an OS
<ToadRageThe5th1>
oh well
<zid>
practice is for the weak
<ToadRageThe5th1>
guess I'll die
<zid>
What real men do is DRAFTS
<ToadRageThe5th1>
I'm probably doing the best kind of practice I can
<zid>
"Oh no, this is supposed to be like this, it's just a rough first draft"
<gog>
breki is loafing
<zid>
It's like factorio "no, this is just the starter base"
<zid>
no matter how large it is
<gog>
loaf alert
<gog>
all bases are starter bases
<gog>
you will never finish your base
<karenthedorf>
Hmm, overlap between osdev, factorio, and executive dysfunction is a circle I feel.
<ToadRageThe5th1>
*ADHD
<zid>
I make limited-scope prototypes.
<zid>
aka int main(void) { /* TODO */ return 0; }
* Matt|home
packs another bowl and passes it around
<ToadRageThe5th1>
My ADHD brain can't think of ideas
<zid>
does your linker script have that 'include me after the default linker script' line?
<zid>
did you not freestanding?
<ToadRageThe5th1>
no CPUID for you
<ToadRageThe5th1>
I am using GCC freestanding option
<ToadRageThe5th1>
-ffreestanding
<zid>
karenthedorf: good news, it was feature requested in 2021
<zid>
ToadRageThe5th1: show full command with output?
<zid>
bad news: nobody gives a shit
<karenthedorf>
zid: I was basically trying to stick only to things in x86s for my kernel. But apparently that's too new for hippy software like qemu.
<ToadRageThe5th1>
hang on, the makefile also isn't finished, but I am pretty sure that that is not the current problem
<zid>
x2apic is weird, it's like.. too much? Unless you're on a multi-socket numa system with 128 NICs or whatever
<ToadRageThe5th1>
It won't let me run rules from all
<karenthedorf>
I wrote the implementation of umip in qemu last time I did some osdev, but a whole new apic mode seems a bit more effort than just nobbling 3 instructions
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<Matt|home>
hm. i might have to ask my sister about this later
<Matt|home>
alright im done, im too baked for this and this is turning out completely insane lol. let's see what my line count is..
<Matt|home>
from 100 to 118, i got 18 lines in luls
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<kof673>
> They stopped caring about literacy I know that much, their scores tanked this generation yes and no. the theory is alexa or similar will answer all the "facts" and you can just do "behaviorism" "performance" "outcomes" i.e. flexibility
<kof673>
also, parents have nothing to do with this, this is business/schooling/goldman sachs says it is the future/etc.
<kof673>
it is considered "progress" anyways :D
<kof673>
it is optimizing for business use/careers
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<Ermine>
Matt|home: next time you remove some other 18 lines, and suddenly you're super productive
<Matt|home>
hm?
<Matt|home>
rofl
<Matt|home>
nah i know what im doing
<Matt|home>
it's a bad idea though
<gcoakes>
Could someone help me understand the difference between device tree "/reserved-memory/*" nodes and the Memory Reservation Block? I've read through the specification sections on both of them, but I still can't parse out what the differences are or why one is used over the other.
<Ermine>
Matt|home: the reference to 'my most productive day consisted of removing 1000 lines of code'
<Matt|home>
lol..
<Matt|home>
not with my code babe :p
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<nikolapdp>
pdp's back
<guideX>
it kind of seems like the usb keyboard in my os isn't working for some reason
<guideX>
ugh, I've been at that for like the past week trying to figure it out
<guideX>
I hope everyone else is as slow as I am figuring this stuff out xD
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<nikolar>
heh simh died
<nikolar>
sim_timer_activate_after(DZ-XMT, -4294402661 usecs) - surprising negative usec value
<nikolar>
negative usec value - aborting from sim_timer.c:2937
<kof673>
that sucks, you'll have to switch to pdp10 and test my code
<kof673>
no other possibility
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<nikolapdp>
restart fixes everything as per usual
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<geist>
guideX: did it used to? are you accessing it via usb or via ps2?
<guideX>
I am accessing it via usb, I could've sworn it worked last weekend, I will go through older versions to check
<guideX>
I wanted to get my console working when I realized: there's no keyboard xD
<guideX>
you can only click things
<guideX>
maybe I should forget the idea of keyboard input, and make the user click absolutely everything xD j/k
<bslsk05>
simh/simh - The Computer History Simulation Project (302 forks/1639 stargazers/NOASSERTION)
<geist>
okay, might take a look at it in a bit. my neck is killing me right now, a classic pinched nerve that makes my left arm hurt/numb
<geist>
not the first time, but the worst thing i can do is sit around and type on a computer
<nikolar>
ah that sucks
<geist>
so going to take a nice long hike
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<nikolar>
nah no problems
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<geist>
yep. if you're young make sure you dont fuck up your neck or spine, it'll haunt you forever
<nikolar>
i thought that you could take a look because you're the only other simh user i know :P
<geist>
keep good posture!
<geist>
well, honeslty id ont use it that much anymore because, uh, i have real hardware now :)
<nikolar>
heh that's the goal
<geist>
ttyl
<nikolar>
wonder how they'll patch bsd to work after 2038
<nikolar>
bbye
<heat>
can the 2.11BSD cc work with 64-bit ints?
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<heat>
a short term solution would be to make time_t unsigned. seriously i never really got why time_t is signed
<nikolar>
heat: not sure, longs are 32
<kof673>
i do not know, but wth is this about? > https://people.freebsd.org/~ariff/zresampler/src/quad.h > * This library can provide 128-bit arithmetic on a machine with 128-bit quads and 64-bit longs, for instance, or 96-bit arithmetic on machines with 48-bit longs.
<kof673>
what are these...other machines with 48-bit long ? :D
<Mondenkind>
why are signed and unsigned quad the same type
<kof673>
no idea, i just remember freebsd has quad stuff, no idea how far back that goes
<nikolar>
Lol does it just shell out to the builtins
<kof673>
IIRC c89 does not guarantee "long long" so maybe it once did more than just shell out
<netbsduser>
porting 2.11bsd sounds like a fun venture
<heat>
"fun"
<heat>
porting something more modern (4.3BSD?) sounds actually fun
<netbsduser>
4.3bsd vm is slightly annoying
<netbsduser>
i think on foreign arches they simulated vax style page tables but that's just some apocryphal thing i once heard so it might be a total lie
<heat>
4.4 it is then
<netbsduser>
with 2.11bsd what i think would be interesting would be modernising it
<netbsduser>
i like ships of theseus
<nikolar>
Have your ship of Theseused something already
<mcrod>
hi
<nikolar>
hello
<mcrod>
hi nikolar
<nikolar>
what's up mcrod
<mcrod>
boredom
<nikolar>
lol
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<heat>
mcrod, kernal
<mjg>
watch some russian movies
<mcrod>
heat kernel
<heat>
kernal*
<heat>
common typo
<mjg>
i am lied to
<mcrod>
freebsd!
<mjg>
looking at illumos pipe code
<mjg>
they have a flag FIFOFAST
<mjg>
but it is not :(
<mjg>
they even have a func named fifo_stayfast_enter
<heat>
fifo_stayhard_enter
<mjg>
i verifed with dtrace it returns 1 aka things worked out
<mjg>
but it is not fast :[
<mjg>
i'm gonna submit a patch fifo_stayslow_enter
<mjg>
rename it
<mjg>
* The implementation makes aggressive use of kmem object caching for
<mjg>
* maximum performance.
<mjg>
:d
<mjg>
something went haywire did not it
<heat>
mjg what do you think about my PIPEN
<mjg>
i did not take a serious look
<heat>
i do think they're actually okayen *but* i think pipe poll can be done locklessly
<mjg>
i'm considering writing a funny blogpost with an overfiew
<mjg>
overview even
<mjg>
there are some vile corner cases to consider here
<heat>
blogpost? you have a blog now?
<mjg>
no
<mjg>
but i might get one
<heat>
pessimalcores.net
<mjg>
i was thinking poorformance.io
<heat>
sunmicroshitstems.net
<mjg>
anyway i wanted to check if they happen to be doing something clever
<mjg>
and they don't
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<nikolar>
ok, thread sanitizer is kind of clever :)
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<chiselfuse>
what architecture does most of the cloud run?
<heat>
x86_64
<nikolar>
And it's not even close
<heat>
SPARC64 WILL RISE AGAIN!
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<nikolar>
SPARC
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<heat>
i'm relicensing my kernel to gpl i think
<heat>
mit was the worst choice for something i deeply care about
<Ermine>
did someone take your code into proprietary project?
<heat>
i don't know and i can't know given it's all MIT and no one has to tell you a thing :)
<chiselfuse>
i heard from a couple people i know who worked for big companies that gpl deters completely
<mjg>
must be why linux is dead
<chiselfuse>
how is it dead
<heat>
everyone's on microkernels now
<chiselfuse>
heat: question is, can you gpl it after having mit'd it? you can only gpl new code you're adding to it, right?
<kof673>
if heat wrote all the code, he can do whatever licensing he wants :D
<heat>
i'm the sole copyright holder for 99.9% of my code (basically everything Ermine hasn't written)
<heat>
even without that, i'm pretty sure i could GPL the MIT code, I'd just need to keep the original MIT copyright
<heat>
MIT gives you the power to sublicense (e.g into proprietary)
<nikolar>
GPL FTW
<chiselfuse>
but i'm thinking that if it's already been released under mit, then you can't just add restrictions afterwards. people who continue to close-source the code that originally had no restrictions can't suddenly be restricted to release it
<chiselfuse>
so i think you can only gpl additions onwards
<carrar>
Clearly the answer is here is you need to write a new OS from scratch :)
<heat>
>people who continue to close-source the code that originally had no restrictions can't suddenly be restricted to release it
<heat>
correct
<heat>
if you relicense something, old releases are still under the old license
<heat>
eg macOS old ass bash is still under GPLv2 instead of v3
<Ermine>
and suddenly #osdev turns into #civillaw
<kof673>
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.en.html#InternalDistribution whether that is "proprietary" or not is another story, but also don't have to tell you a thing :D > i don't know and i can't know given it's all MIT and no one has to tell you a thing
<chiselfuse>
heat: anyways, can you give me examples of microkernels and where people are starting to replace linux with them? for example, all distros i know still use linux and i've only seen linux distros used in the cloud etc
<bslsk05>
www.gnu.org: Frequently Asked Questions about the GNU Licenses - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation
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<heat>
software copyright is actually pretty relevant to programmers
<heat>
because we all ANAL
<heat>
but need to act like pretend lawyers
<chiselfuse>
what does ANAL mean in this context?
<kof673>
am/are not a lawyer
<heat>
it means whatever you want it to mean
<kof673>
see also: > Publicanus: A person in ancient Rome who collected taxes
<chiselfuse>
heat: can you reply about the microkernels? i want to know
<heat>
it was a joke, no one's replacing anything with microkernels and linux isn't dead
<heat>
re: >gpl deters completely
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<Ermine>
the thing is that you need to describe all subtleties of gpl to the court
<kof673>
and, not arguing the "internal distribution" either way, just ...it seems organizations/companies get treated as if they were an "individual" and hence, can "share amongst themself", without "distributing"
<heat>
now, it is true that commonly corps avoid GPL. which is actually Not A Bad Thing if it means they won't steal code
<kof673>
so probably has to be that way, without a restriction on what constitutes an "individual"
<chiselfuse>
some other guy i knew insisted gpl does nothing to corpos who can just take code and is unlikely to get dragged to court even if discovered as an argument to make me not use gpl. i think he was just lying because he worked for a corpo and wanted to spread misinfo
<kof673>
so i have not heard of such a license
<Ermine>
MCST people figured out that they can ignore gpl if they're state-sponsored
<heat>
MCST?
<Ermine>
company which makes Elbrusen
<heat>
>Moscow Center of SPARC Technologies
<heat>
SPARC HAHAHA HAHAH AHAHA HAH HA HAHA HA
<heat>
anyway yes that's a problem
<Ermine>
They indeed released some sparc processors, but that was long time ago
<heat>
see: chinese android vendors giving you a copy of the source code if you visit their offices in fuckoff, mainland china
<Ermine>
yeah
<Ermine>
Suing companies for violating gpl is extremely hard
<chiselfuse>
but you can always tweet about it
<Ermine>
that's free. Lawyers cost $$$
<heat>
yes suing is hard but don't forget the power of deterrence
<heat>
(particularly in the west)
<chiselfuse>
jokes aside i wonder how effective it is to bad reputation them on reddit etc
<Ermine>
> in the west
<chiselfuse>
maybe a few people get fired at least
<heat>
mon the CCP could release the windows xp source leak and nothing would happen to them
<heat>
'tis life
<heat>
putin could spit the dvd encryption key in a press conference
<CompanionCube>
isn't that broken already
<chiselfuse>
how different are other ISAs like arm and aarch64 once you study amd64 thoroughly?
<Ermine>
also, there are ru vendors that will literally ask you to fuck off when asked for sources
<CompanionCube>
one of the memorable things about elbrus is a russian bank testing it and calling it unusable
<heat>
should've used sparc!
<heat>
chiselfuse, uhhh... somewhat
<kof673>
"ask you to" ah, the counter offer j/k
<kof673>
all according to "law" j/k
<heat>
chiselfuse, say, aarch64 and riscv64 and x86_64 all bottom out to more or less the same thing, but in different ways
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<heat>
but if you know one of those ISAs, your knowledge will more or less easily transpose onto the others
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<Ermine>
CompanionCube: yeah, after that shitstorms ensued in elbrus communities
<chiselfuse>
heat: even the system-level architecture or just userspace instructions etc?
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<chiselfuse>
about similarities
<heat>
all of it
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<heat>
e.g all of those MMUs are very similar but slightly different
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<chiselfuse>
so aarch64 also has like 5 level paging and weird deprecated segment stuff?
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<heat>
riscv64 and aarch64 trap handling is similar, exceptions between the three are similar
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<heat>
no.
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<Ermine>
nobody has segmentation
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<chiselfuse>
weee splitting
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<heat>
aarch64 has 3-level paging, 4-level paging and i believe 5-level
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<heat>
nope, this is irccloud fucking off
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<Ermine>
No, there are people who i believe to not use irccloud
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<heat>
maybe a node just died
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<chiselfuse>
it's the matrix making you dream that irccloud went down, there are inconsistencies when you zoom into details
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<heat>
matrix makes me multiply it and i soon find out i don't know how to do that
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<heat>
fucken dot product
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<chiselfuse>
maybe operands are of wrong dimensions
<chiselfuse>
supposed to be in dimesions of `axb bxa` or something