klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
<Matt|home> o\
<mjg> gog: oy
<mjg> how old of a laptop
<gog> 2 years
<nikolapdp> which laptop is it anyway
<mjg> whose
<bslsk05> ​pcsupport.lenovo.com: laptops and netbooks :: gaming series :: ideapad gaming 3 15arh05 :: 82ey :: 82ey000vmx :: pf32yqwm Lenovo PC Support - Lenovo Support IS
<nikolapdp> kind of similar to mine, except mine doesn't have a dedicated gpu
<gog> the keyboard has this fucky weirdness about it which it hasn't been exhibiting for the last few days
<gog> idk what it's about
<gog> but the s key was hit or miss for awhile, then it was sending multiples, now it's fine
<nikolapdp> odd
<gog> yes
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<nikolapdp> and that's what happened when it was new
<nikolapdp> ?
<zid> My keyboard likes to randomly insert a different character sometimes
<nikolapdp> are you sure it's not your parkinsons'
<zid> 1/10000 chance that you get a 9 instead of a u or something
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<heat> mjg, those readlinks, are they disambiguating -l switches from obj files?
<heat> and if so, why readlink and not access or stat
<adder> how am I supposed to stay safe when my security guard keeps falling asleep https://arcticadder.net/acab1312/photo.jpeg
<nikolapdp> i don't think your link works
<nikolapdp> kek
<Mutabah> `photo.jpeg: ISO Media, HEIF Image HEVC Main or Main Still Picture Profile`
<nikolapdp> well firefox didn't like it
<Mutabah> Yep, but nomacs liked it - d'aww
<adder> fakin epl
<nikolapdp> epl?
<adder> apple
<nikolapdp> of course
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<Mondenkind> wait a minute are you allowed to do non-lock-free c11 atomics in signal handlers
<Mondenkind> i never even thought about this
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<mjg> Mondenkind: ?
<mjg> how tf would that work
<Mondenkind> i mean i can imagine bad ways of making it work
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* vdamewood sniffs gog
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<nikolar> Are there systems with cache line sizes >16 in common use
<Mondenkind> >16 what
<nikolar> Erm bytes, my bad
<Mondenkind> yes
<nikolar> Do you know any
<Mondenkind> i'm typing on one right now
<Mondenkind> and i expect you are too
<Mondenkind> usually like 64b
<nikolar> Are there any with like 256 or 512
<Mondenkind> i don't think so
<nikolar> I've read somewhere that there are but it sounds like a bit much
<zid> I imagine that'd work great on supercomputery vliwy stuff
<zid> like, you wouldn't care if it was 512B if you're exclusively running avx-512 streamy stuff
<nikolar> Guess so
<nikolar> But I doubt that server processors have that much
<nikolar> Like it's the same microarch
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<geist> nikolar: pretty much all are like 32 or 64
<geist> i've seen 128 byte cache lines (thunder x1 cpus) but i think the standard is 64 for the most part
<geist> i've also seen on i thinnk some of the x86 cpus having an L2 or L3 cache hae double the cache line size as the L1
<geist> which makes sense, caches farther out could easily deal with that
<Mondenkind> i've not seen that, more usually 'adjacent line prefetch'
<geist> yeah i forget which one i saw it on
<Mondenkind> so if you fetch a 64b cache line its buddy comes along for the ride into l2/l3 (and not into l1) but then it can get kicked out separately later
<Mondenkind> i think apple cpus do that though with the two line sizes
<geist> possibly yeah
<geist> also there's a trend of these distant whole-memory caches
<Mondenkind> huh?
<geist> different names for it, but kinda like a cache at the DRAM controller, so that it's totally invisible to everything
<geist> i dunno what the correct compsci name is, but i've seen it on a lot of the newer high end ARM socs, including the apple M1+
<geist> it's kinda like a L4, but basically completely invisible to anything, including DMA, so you can logically think of it as a cache on the DRAM controller
<Mondenkind> hrm. makes sense i guess?
<geist> SLC (system level cache) i've seen thrown around
<mjg> is there a context to that 16 byte question tho
<geist> yah especially for SOCs where the gpu and cpu and all these devices are sharing the same memory
<mjg> pretty weird as is
<Mondenkind> i wonder if it's for power more than speed
<geist> very possibly
<Mondenkind> no that doesn't make sense
<geist> apple cpus do it, i've seen it on samsung and qualcomm and google's smartphone cpu
<geist> seems to just be the defacto solution for high end smartphone/tablet class ARM socs now
<geist> anyway in that case the cache line could also be whatever size it wants to be for implementation purposes
<geist> since for the most part you'd probably only need to flush or invalidate it around power events
<Ermine> tlp somewhy switched me from intel_pstate to intel_cpufreq
<Ermine> ... bacause i chose passive opmode
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<nikolar> mjg basically what's the required aligned to avoid false sharing
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<mjg> depends, by default you roll with 64 within structs
<mjg> and 128 for globals
<nikolar> That's it yeah
<bslsk05> ​www.phoronix.com: Linux Looking To Make 5-Level Paging Support Unconditional For x86_64 Kernel Builds - Phoronix
<zid> I appreciate that approach in general, but it seems a little.. overkill?
<zid> it's not like removing the option removes any code
<zid> just stops pml4 only builds existing
<zid> you still need the pml4 only codepath, you still need the pml5 codepath, you still need a bunch of runtime checks for which to use
<nikolar> Does that mean that all kernels will work with both?
<nikolar> Yeah
<geist> for what it's worth most modern arches at least either have it hard coded or a way to query it
<Ermine> I guess less #ifdef CONFIG_ clutter
<mjg> i'm guessing that's mostly to reduce maintenance burden
<mjg> not for any gainz for anyone
<geist> yeah it's not that they're forcing 5 level, just make it so that it can choose to use it by default
<geist> i'm guessing there's probably a command line switch to force it back to 4 even if the hardware supports 5
<geist> in case there's some slight performance delta, etc
<geist> stupid intel for not just making it per aspace, like ARM
<geist> even FRED doesn't fix that
<mjg> there very well may be dragons in the silicon
<geist> oh almost certainly. the downsides of having so much legacy, there are probably whole blocks of verilog they dont want to change, etc
<geist> so there would be a very strong reason to not futz with it
<geist> practically speaking
<mjg> ye
<mjg> realistically the 5th level iso for such a miniscule amount of people
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<mjg> it does not make a difference
<geist> would be interesting to see what the performance delta may be for an additional PTE level. depends on TLB miss hit rate and how well the PT walker cache works
<geist> which is mostly invisible on both intel and amd, though clearly present
<geist> also obviously depends on the clustering of the test cases, etc
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<geist> would have to be a Real World test
<mjg> fuck that, just declare there is no difference
<mjg> it's i/o bound to the network
<geist> i assume you jest, considering how much your'e about benchmarks
<mjg> dude my rants about geezers which take shit out of their asses take second place after rants about solaris
<mjg> which btw is also turbo geezered
<geist> okay,so it was sarcasm
<mjg> i'm also more about profiling than benchmarks,
<geist> can't tell with you
<mjg> :sadface:
<geist> tis why i try to make it obvious or put a sarcasm tag or whatnot. lots of it gets lost in IRC and translation
<geist> i guess discord you'd put a gif afterwards that uses up half the page with some cute thing
<zid> my kingdom hearts crashed :(
<geist> eep
<mjg> :shieeet:
<geist> i reinstalled my main home server with proxmox yesterday and re-set up a large VM that acts like the old box's native OS
<geist> working pretty well, i gotta admit it's a pretty slick system for free
<Ermine> I stumble upon proxmox when googling for lxc stuff pretty often
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<geistpdp> nice, still connected
<geist> yeah it has support for lxc
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<geistpdp> time to shut the pdp down, let it rest a bit
<geistpdp> /me waves
<geistpdp> (interesting, it doesn't do /me)
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<nikolapdp> bye
<geist> but shows you how stable it is on real hardware
<geist> ran for a few days with no trouble
<geist> it's loud though, sometimes it get son your nerves, wanted to shut it down to get my hearing back
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<nikolapdp> nice to see it working
<nikolapdp> did you sort out the line wrap issue
<mjg> e10k in the basement when
<geist> surprisngly it doesn't burn that much power, only about 80W
<geist> but i bet a solid 20 of it goes into the old style AC fans
<nikolapdp> heh neat
<nikolapdp> i really want to get one, at least one of the small ones but they are basically unobtainable over here
<nortti> geist: how reasonable would it be to mod it to use 12V fans?
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<geist> oh it'd probably be fine, but actually it is shoving a lot of air through it, so i think you'd need some fairly beefy fans to get the same effect
<geist> part of the noise is just the amount of air it's moving, it's a rack mounted thing ultimately, though it's shoving the air through sideways FWIW
<geist> i took it apart at some point and re greezed their bearings but i didn't take any pics
<geist> the power supply is a monster and the fans are part of that assembly
<zid> geist your accent is showing
<geist> oh yeah?
<zid> regreased :p
<nikolar> lel
<geist> ah. nah i just didn't bother trying to spell it right
<zid> right but you only spell it with a z if you have that accent that says it with a z, surely
<geist> but yeah. you're right. honestly 'grease' as a word looks a bit off for me
<geist> oh i definitely do
<zid> so your accent was infact, showing
<geist> that's probably why it looks off to me, since i say 'gree-z'
<zid> I have the opposite with 'houses'
<geist> yah i'd say 'how-zez'
<zid> I say houzes and greased, I've seen americans who say houses and greazezd
<zid> I should find one and duel him to the death
<geist> i think that's a bit different from the local seattle proper accent which would be more of a proper houses saying
<geist> i bet the s -> z thing is the overall summary and some southern thing
<geist> just took the spark plug out of my vespa trying to find a reacplement online
<geist> geez there's like 15 different variants
<geist> no standard it seems for spark plugs
<zid> Just look up what the oem gave for the specific model of vespa you have?
<zid> as long as it has the right thread pattern and spark gap etc it'll be fine though
<geist> yah i have a champion RG6YC in it, which i can always order
<geist> though it's basically the cheapest thing on the market
<geist> looks like a NGK CR8EIB is a solid replacement and higher quality
<zid> what have you been doing to it such that you've been eating spark plugs though
<geist> honestly nothing, but it's got like 6k miles and 15 years on it, so i think it's time
<geist> i dot think it's fouled, but it's not running well lately, been missing somewhat and whatnot
<geist> so i pulled it out. it doesn't seem to have a lot of carbon buildup, but figured what the hey
<zid> you can just scrape the fouling off
<zid> as long as the electrode isn't super worn down
<zid> is it a 2 stroke?
<zid> I imagine those foul a lot quicker
<zid> oh that's fiiine
<geist> frankly it's a bitch to get it out of the scooter
<geist> you think?
<zid> but if it's out now, might as well change it?
<zid> stops you having to do it again
<geist> basically
<geist> that was my idea, if i can get a new one in the next day or two may as well just replace it
<zid> It's the same with engine gaskets and stuff
<zid> they're cheap and consumable, so if you ever have the engine apart
<zid> you might as well replace everything
<geist> the plug is a PITA to get to too, you need small hands and lots of blind reaching into the bike cavity to get it
<zid> did you not have a good socket for it?
<geist> thankfulyl they included a tool with the bike, no way to get a socket anywhere near it
<geist> no way a socket works. but they included a little socket like thing with some holes that you can stick a screw driver in to turn it a quarter
<bslsk05> ​'Vespa LX Spark Plug Replacement Tutorial | Mitch's Scooter Stuff' by Mitch's Scooter Stuff (00:04:29)
<zid> yea you'd need a very specific shape
<zid> but a socket tool *would* work
<geist> a very shallow socket might do it
<zid> one that could go through 90
<geist> right
<geist> but whatever. thinking about replacing it anyway
<zid> yea do it
<geist> it's taken to stalling out when accellerating, but only when it's warm as far as i can tell
<zid> they're only a few dollars I assume
<geist> yah about $10
<zid> check fuel filter
<geist> yep. also something that is a terrible pita
<zid> I believe the technical term for that is
<zid> "has an engine"
<geist> well, the main problem is it's so jamed up underneath it. it's really designed to work on with a proper table lift
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<zid> If you don't have to disassemble the entire thing to do it, it's considered 'very accessable'
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<bslsk05> ​twitter: <jackmeridan> The most painful thing you will see on here today. https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1807943590020370434/pu/vid/avc1/576x1024/H-clvaXohfunVvy9.mp4?tag=12
<geist> i think he could have summed it up with a picture of a mini in the shop
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<zid> I assume this is a joke video though and they needed that engine apart anyway
<zid> otherwise he'd have just fished it out with a magnet
<geist> ordered a nicer, higher end iridium plug that folks seem to like
<zid> if you wanna test that plug btw you can just attach it to the HT lead without screwing it in
<zid> and see if it sparks when you turn the engine over
<geist> yah though i dont think i have enough arms to do that in this case
<zid> have you considered buying a few more? might be worth it in the long run
<geist> reminds me of project binky
<zid> Good news btw, today is the last day of some americans having all of their fingers and arms
<zid> you can probably get some extras cheaply
<bslsk05> ​www.youtube.com <no title>
<zid> Nobody mentioned brackets though
<zid> or CAD