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<geist>
watching the AMD keynote announcing ryzen 9000
<geist>
but so far spending most of their time talking about all the chip space they're going to dedicated to NPUs
<geist>
joy.
<geist>
i just want more cpus!
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<zid>
I want fewer cpus
<zid>
I am not a webserver
<zid>
Where is my 8GHz quad core
<geist>
there there zid. a child of the 90s
<zid>
You only need LN2 to hit 8GHz at least these days, instead of liquid helium, that's progress
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<heat>
you don't get it geist
<heat>
AI BRO!
<heat>
how will i be able to train my neural network without npus and gpus and tpus and nprs and nras and web3
<kazinsal>
training your LLM? more like train your ass into the woodchipper
<heat>
train my ass? OwO
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<heat>
oh they're on the P+E train now
<heat>
yuck
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<heat>
also we don't seem to be moving past 16 cores 32 threads for the top of the line consumer stuff and that's annoying
<heat>
32/64 would be cool
<heat>
or 24/48 i guess
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<geist>
huh TIL that xxd can convert from hex format back to binary
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<Griwes>
yeah, and you can also do patching of binaries in a very convenient way with it
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<kof673>
well, as soon as compilers can auto-parallelize things and there is no longer any need to worry about threads, when it is a solved problem...then i am sure raw single core power will be back. as soon as the compilers are no longer good at it
<nikolapdp>
that's a tough ask kof
<nikolapdp>
people have been waiting for compilers to autoparallelize for decades
<mjg>
automagic parallel already happens to an extent
<mjg>
see openmp
<nikolapdp>
yeah when you manually tell it and when you write in a specific way
<GeDaMo>
You just need a sufficiently smart compiler! :P
<nikolapdp>
don't think that counts
<mjg>
i don't see how a compiler can optimize when it truly matters
<nikolapdp>
Mondekind, if you like writing shaders, you'll feel right at home with ispc :)
<nikolapdp>
you're shit mjg
<nikolapdp>
there
<mjg>
i'm not a kernel tho
<nikolapdp>
ah right
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<Mondenkind>
genuinely i would like to know why you misspell my nick in the exact same way every single time you type it do you not have tabcomplete or something
<Mondenkind>
:P
<nikolapdp>
words hard :(
<nikolapdp>
i don't know either lol
<mjg>
look who is shit now 8(
<nikolapdp>
do you think that pdp11 has tab complete :P
<nikolapdp>
yes mjg, we're all shit
<mjg>
some people may take offense to that
<mjg>
fuck 'em
<nikolapdp>
exactly
<mjg>
still, what's up with weird-ass nicknames
<nikolapdp>
what nicknames
<mjg>
i'm mister real name over here
<mjg>
you think Mondenkind is first or last name
<Mondenkind>
idk ask michael ende
<Mondenkind>
besides having just one name is legit. like teller
<mjg>
8)
<nikolapdp>
my first name is nikola and my last name is pdp
<bslsk05>
henck/imagefs - imagefs allows you to create a file on your hard disk (or any other drive) and treat it as if it were a floppy disk. imagefs lets you copy files onto and delete file from this virtual floppy disk, install boot sector code, and display a directory of files on the virtual disk. (3 forks/7 stargazers/MIT)
<gaxar77>
But I am a little lost on how to use gcc and ld.
<gaxar77>
i know the language.
<gaxar77>
For the most part.
<gaxar77>
but I figured I would do the basics of an os by following a tutorial, and then afterward become more familiar with those tools, and return to that project.
<heat>
if you can't figure out how to build a cross compiler, you're not ready
<heat>
if you can't figure out how the bare bones wiki article works, you're not ready
<heat>
etc etc
<heat>
start with the cross compiler, move to bare bones
<gaxar77>
I couldn't find the right information on how to build the cross compiler on Linux. It refers to "the above code", and there is no code above that reference.
<gaxar77>
Also, I am having a hard time installing things with apt-get. Sometimes I get 404, then I update the archive cash, then I still can't install certain software.
<gaxar77>
I can't install qemu.
<gaxar77>
But I just want to use bochs, since I already installed it.
<gaxar77>
Does anyone else ever come in here having a hard time and getting no where?
<Ermine>
Many do
<Mutabah>
sometimes, and usually it's becuase they've blindly done stuff and broken assumptions/systems
<Mutabah>
e.g. your apt issues might be due to randomly adding souces that didn't work
<Ermine>
This chat and various 'tutorials' on the internet won't replace reading documentation and stuff
<gaxar77>
If I can depend on docs, do I even need tutorials?
<Mutabah>
Tutorials can be useful to get an example of how something works, so you know where in the docs to look
<gaxar77>
ok
<Mutabah>
or at least, what to look for
<gaxar77>
Do all computers have the same BIOS? How do I know which BIOS to interact with?
<heat>
no
<gaxar77>
How do I know the basic hardware setup of a standard computer, so that I can study the relevant manuals?
<Mutabah>
There's two broad families/specs - Legacy BIOS, which is only just a convention, and UEFI
<GeDaMo>
Older x86 PCs have a common BIOS interface (more or less)
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<gaxar77>
Okay, so first thing to learn: (brush up on any gaps in C knowledge, gas assembly language), (gcc, gas, ld, make), (intel, UEFI). Is that good enough to get started?
<heat>
command line
<heat>
linux
<gaxar77>
Oh, I forgot the other tools for making disk images and the emulators also.
<gaxar77>
Yeah true.
<heat>
you don't need those tools
<heat>
you don't need to know UEFI
<heat>
and you don't need to know BIOS
<gaxar77>
I am not even going to study the hardware manuals until I learn these basic things.
<heat>
great!
<gaxar77>
Why don't I need to know BIOS?
<heat>
because you don't need to interface with BIOS or UEFI and it's extra complicated
<gaxar77>
There's really no IDE for OS dev/
<gaxar77>
?
<heat>
bare bones does not require uefi or bios
<heat>
knowledge
<GeDaMo>
AN operating system is just another program
<gaxar77>
So, how do you load the kernel without the BIOS?:
<heat>
grub does it for you
<gaxar77>
Oh.
<gaxar77>
Well, I guess I also have to learn grub.
<heat>
i've heard clion is okay, vscode and vim and emacs can be pimp-my-ride'd into ide-ish capabilities
<gaxar77>
just curious: How does the kernel know which driver to use, and how does the bootloader know, the driver for the disk drive/
<gaxar77>
Oh, grub does that. But how does the kernel know?
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<gaxar77>
Does each hardware device communicate what model it is?
<heat>
yes
<gaxar77>
That's good.
<TkTech>
What would an IDE specifically for OS Dev look like? :) You just use your IDE of choice for the language(s) you're working in. You tend to use qemu (bochs in my day) to test, and/or you develop a harness for your kernel so it can be run on top of a host OS like Linux, and so you can just use regular debuggers, or support for serial and remote gdb.
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<TkTech>
You seem to be missing a lot of the basic concepts, have you at least skimmed the wiki?
<gaxar77>
So, do I need to configure hardware for an emulator, which is compatible with the drivers I will implemented in my kernel?
<gaxar77>
I have looked at some of the wiki articles.
<heat>
yes
<gaxar77>
ok
<gaxar77>
Okay, so first, learn the GNU tools.
<gaxar77>
I will
<gaxar77>
And also some language stuff.
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<gaxar77>
Also, I have a question, which might seem kind of outlandish. Is the Command Language Runtime to large for a single person to implement? I keep getting kernel ideas even though I haven't even started yet.
<gaxar77>
too large*
<gaxar77>
Common*
<GeDaMo>
Is that the C# runtime?
<gaxar77>
Yes.
<GeDaMo>
A basic interpreter isn't complicated, all the libraries would probably be a lot of work
<gaxar77>
oh
<gaxar77>
Even the base class library?
<GeDaMo>
I don't know what that includes
<gaxar77>
oh
<heat>
yes it'd be pretty large to implement
<gaxar77>
Maybe I'll make my own VM with my own kind of bytecode
<GeDaMo>
Probably an easier starting point than a bootloader
<gaxar77>
You think I should just implement a process VM that runs on Windows?
<gaxar77>
Or Linux?
<heat>
yes
<gaxar77>
Okay.
<zid>
I think you should write a couple million more lines of code
<zid>
before you touch *any* of this stuff
<gaxar77>
And then I can rewrite it for the kernel when I write my kernl?
<gaxar77>
ok
<heat>
(don't take the amount literally)
<nikolapdp>
i mean writing a simple language runtime vm is fine as a beginner project
<GeDaMo>
You could write a set of calls on your VM which could become the syscall interface for a kernel
<gaxar77>
I was just thinking about that.
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