<midfavila>
we should have a christmas movie marathon on jitsi
<midfavila>
:OOOOOOOOOOO
<midfavila>
fuck
<midfavila>
it looks like the beamspring keyboards are ending production soon
<midfavila>
hnngggghhh
<midfavila>
i'm gonna order one for my birthday/christmas
<midfavila>
workstation shipping after that
<midfavila>
definitely gonna...
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<jason123onirc>
I was about to ask if musl can be replaced with glibc but remembered gkiss exists
<midfavila>
yeb
<midfavila>
GUYS
<midfavila>
I FOUND AN EMERGENCY STASH OF COFFEE
<midfavila>
THE WEST HAS BEEN SAVED
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<midfavila>
man i love it when i see people boycott one massive superconglomerate and then immediately go to the massive superconglomerate directly across the street
<midfavila>
>boycott loblaws, canada's largest supermarket conglom
<midfavila>
>cross the street to go to walmart instead
<midfavila>
like go to a local place or a co-op or something. even super small towns here have one.
<sewn>
phoebos: whats the point of the KISS_HOOK if later on its just gonna be ignored
<phoebos>
to reduce the size of the tarball
<sewn>
i see
<sewn>
wouldnt it make more sense to implement these things in upstream packages
<phoebos>
no, it removes documentation
<phoebos>
but I still want documentation in a package, it's just not necessary for the minimal chroot
<sewn>
right
<sewn>
also
<sewn>
is there any benefit to using -Ddefault_library=both in meson packages or even in general?
<sewn>
like distributing _both_ static and shared libraries
<sewn>
when KISS is not even a statically linked distribution, so it makes no sense to keep static libraries, right?
<phoebos>
i mean this is a topic of much debate
<phoebos>
but for the tarball, no i suppose no need for the static libs
<dilyn>
I'm always +1 for shipping static objs
<sewn>
but whats the point
<sewn>
go big or go home, why have static libraries to begin with
<sewn>
if its just not gonna be used i think
<dilyn>
I especially don't see a substantially good reason to not ship the <20MB of static libraries in at least the rootfs
<dilyn>
I can *see* the argument for things in e.g. extra/
<sewn>
static libraries on my system (191 pkgs) take up 110
<sewn>
most of them dont have static libraries enabled
<sewn>
110mb that is - woops
<dilyn>
if we did package splitting I'd be all for it ;)
<sewn>
or no package splitting and have repository splitting
<sewn>
like a kiss where its all shared and a kiss where its all static
<sewn>
oh hey sadplan is working on a static kiss :3
<sewn>
i think
<midfavila>
gm smoochers
<midfavila>
do i see gifts from phoebos under the tree??? :O
<midfavila>
i'll see if i can get something vaguely resembling an upstream tarball put together for riscv before christmas too ig
<midfavila>
i'm picking it back up
<midfavila>
took a lil' break this past week
<midfavila>
going to try and get a proper gcc done up. that's been the main sticking point for months
<sewn>
llvm my belove
<midfavila>
running the rootfs under qemu and using a skarnet toolchain to bootstrap
<midfavila>
llvm cringe
<midfavila>
qbe based
<midfavila>
i've said the internet words and therefore the matter is settled
<thomas_adam>
qbe is interesting -- that's what harelang.org uses.
<midfavila>
yeah
<midfavila>
#kisslinux has been watching it for a few years now iirc
<midfavila>
i'd like to try writing a scheme frontend for it in the future
<sewn>
thomas_adam: cproc
<sewn>
c11 compiler using qbe
<sewn>
that will not compile most of your packages but just the good ones
<midfavila>
kiss-in-scheme for qbe soon:tm:
<sewn>
whats the difference between scheme and lisp again
<midfavila>
lisp is a language family
<thomas_adam>
sewn: Sure -- I can play word-association.
<midfavila>
scheme is a minimal implementation of lisp
<midfavila>
primarily used for education atm
<midfavila>
it's got a flat namespace, so symbols that refer to objects and symbols that refer to routines can collide, unlike emacs lisp, common lisp, etc
<midfavila>
i really like scheme because it seems to be really, really consistent from my limited time programming
<midfavila>
very simple syntax
<midfavila>
oh, scheme is also notable for extensive runtime support for functional programming, too. iirc functions are guaranteed to be tail-call optimised
<midfavila>
it's been used as an extension language in a few projects too. guile is an example of a scheme, albeit one that's heavily extended, iirc
<midfavila>
racket is another scheme/scheme-derived language that's pretty popular
<sewn>
ah yip
<midfavila>
re: package splitting i suppose that could work but would that entail copying an entire package and appending -doc/-static/-dynamic/-whatever to it?
<midfavila>
i feel like that would get pretty redundant pretty quickly
<sewn>
i like package splitting when it comes to being the user
<sewn>
i hate package splitting when it comes to actually implementing it
<midfavila>
personally i think if i wanted package splitting under kiss i would add a script preprocessing phase to the build process
<midfavila>
using m4 with env vars could make it pretty easy but the problem then becomes needing to upload the user's build script in the kiss db instead of just pointing at upstream's and it could make troubleshooting kind of opaque especially if the preproc were to be abused
<midfavila>
idk
<midfavila>
im running on three hours of sleep and a litre of coffee
<sewn>
what the fuck mid
<sewn>
why dont you get proper sleep
<midfavila>
stress and an overreliance on caffeine to compensate for the shit sleep that implies
<sewn>
its a cycle
<midfavila>
welcome to canada :DDDDDD
<sewn>
oh cmon dont blame your country for your shitty sleep
<midfavila>
i mean tbf it's my neuroticism that does it
<midfavila>
but groceries being 500-600$ a month doesn't help. either way you're not my therapist
* midfavila
flicks
<midfavila>
either way i'm mostly joking about it :v
<sewn>
but im concerned
<sewn>
why do you get to have absolute abhorrent sleep but i get to have good
<omanom>
does anyone know if there's a "framebuffer RDP" analogue to fbvnc?
<midfavila>
i dont think so
<sewn>
it would make more sense to have rdp in a gui anyway
<midfavila>
if you were obsessed with the idea you could run a headless X server and then connect to it using fbvnc to run xrdp and like
<midfavila>
while i would appreciate the hustle that's not insanely practical
<midfavila>
but yeah just run x or wayland (if wayland has an rdp client idk)
<sewn>
im shocked there is no good rdp client on wayland
<midfavila>
only ten more years sewn
<midfavila>
:3
<sewn>
technically freerdp supports wayland
<sewn>
and then you have a rust one
<omanom>
i wanted to have a really minimal kiss install that just vnc's out to my desktop without needing any X or Wayland support at all. i know i can do that, actually, but i was curious if there was an "RDP version" such that I could remote in to my Windows-dedicated desktop in the same manner (just using RDP instead of VNC)
<midfavila>
fair
<omanom>
there's apache guacamole, but then i'd need X/Wayland, a browser, etc
<midfavila>
>run guacamole
<midfavila>
>connect using browsh
<midfavila>
>use that to connect to windows
<midfavila>
miminalism
<midfavila>
god i remember when browsh came out and everyone was like "oh my god dude holy shit a new text mode browser" and it's basically the equivalent of running firefox through aalib
<midfavila>
so gross
<midfavila>
:x
<omanom>
i can't imagine how terrible the sound support would be
<omanom>
doing it like that
<omanom>
part of my looking at rdp was because it is ostensibly less bandwidth-intensive than vnc, and my home desktops are behind an ADSL connection capped at 0.25 Mbps upload. this probably means any kind of remote solution that includes video would be terrible performance, but it sounded fun to try
<jason123onirc>
<dilyn> you say that like I didn't spend all week doing just that for my own two year old repo lol
<jason123onirc>
<dilyn> updating after a long time of not can be tricky
<jason123onirc>
then glasnost might not be good
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<dilyn>
omanom: wayvnc? waypipe? wprs?
<dilyn>
I believe in you jason :)
<jason123onirc>
to update glasnost?
<sewn>
oh hell naw
<midfavila>
hmmm
<midfavila>
another weird hardware idea
<midfavila>
but i have to wonder how hard it would be to retool the reform's mainboard to fit into the cf-m34 chassis
<midfavila>
if i had one i'd model its chassis in freecad or something, see what i can do...
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<sewn>
bye bye dilyn
<midfavila>
does anyone build their gcc statically?
<midfavila>
i'm running into yet another issue with gcc. building it exactly according to the build script and now libtool is losing its mind over "acos.lo"...
<midfavila>
never had this issue on arm
<midfavila>
i would assume it's something to do with gmp... gonna poke around a bit i guess
<jason123onirc>
the kiss arm is not updated anymore as well
<midfavila>
i did have a rootfs running on arm but then my reform died
<jason123onirc>
looking at it I see that only the x86_64 kiss is maintained
<midfavila>
well, kiss itself is explicitly x86-64 only
<midfavila>
so that's not surprising
<jason123onirc>
oh rip
<jason123onirc>
oh yeah dylan made kiss for x86_64 only
<sewn>
architecturism
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<dilyn>
building a static gcc was a bitch and a half lad
<dilyn>
are you cross building already anyways? makes it more sane
<jason123onirc>
one of the things about kiss linux is that it can be easily maintained so I assume I can just work on trying to install glasnost and then update it
<midfavila>
dilyn i have had literally no trouble building anything else
<midfavila>
it's just building a native gcc of any sort
<midfavila>
:V
<midfavila>
but no rn im in a chroot
<midfavila>
i tried a few times to build a native toolchain using a cross toolchain and i've given up
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<midfavila>
running qemu to chroot into a riscv rootfs and using a native toolchain from skarnet to build a native toolchain
<midfavila>
then we're going to make a proper kiss gcc and binutils etc, install those into *another* rootfs, and start building a decent enough rootfs for release
<midfavila>
i'm glad the machine i built for the shop has an rk3588
<midfavila>
the rockpro is pretty nice once you get it running
<midfavila>
sorry 3399
<midfavila>
ofc once the boss rents out the office block next door i'm going to be bringing in my workstation... >.>
<jason123onirc>
kiss for arm maintained again
<midfavila>
well, once i get my reform back i'll likely pick it up
<midfavila>
if i get access to other exotic hardware i wouldn't mind maintaining non-x86_64 root filesystems
<dilyn>
i've got so many riscv boards kicking around... :thinking:
<midfavila>
hmm?
<dilyn>
now I'm thinking of putting kiss on one haha
<midfavila>
well, im hoping to have a rootfs by the end of the week that's self-hosting so i'll keep you posted
<midfavila>
i have this funky little handheld running an allwinner d1
<midfavila>
with a modem and gps and stuff
<midfavila>
i have a preliminary image that boots too. super snappy and usable
<dilyn>
love my little sipeed lichee rv
<dilyn>
itty bitty little guy
<midfavila>
smol even
<midfavila>
im debating on whether i should base my next pc on riscv or arm
<midfavila>
pc in the loosest sense of the word
<midfavila>
either an altra or a milkv pioneer
<midfavila>
gonna slap 'em in a checkmate chassis and pair with an nvs510 and zonar stx for a/v
<midfavila>
supplement with a repro beamspring keeb and ploopy trackball and etc
<midfavila>
then not buying a desktop for at least five years
<jason123onirc>
midfavila, handheld with an allwinner d1 wow
<jason123onirc>
is it the clockwork pi
<midfavila>
yes
<midfavila>
i have a ucon r01
<midfavila>
oh hm. the quadro m2k looks really good too actually...