<sad_plan>
its the same as all packages. the $1 variable is a placeholder for the tempdir which kiss uses to install. if youve looked at packages, youll see that all packages will set DESTDIR="$1"
<vova>
Yeah I saw that, but I had no idea if the kernel's makefile would use/respect DESTDIR, so before waiting 30min for the kernel to compile I wanted to ask
<sad_plan>
I dont belive theres a lot of packages which doesnt respect DESTDIR at all. I dont even belive ive encountered one either.
<sad_plan>
in any case, for the kernel, unless you explicitly need to to make install, copying bzImage does suffice
so has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
so has joined #kisslinux
<sewn>
vova:
<sewn>
please
<sewn>
cp arch/x86/bzImage /boot/EFI/BOOTx64.EFI
<sewn>
you dont need more
<ukky>
vova: for kernel: mkdir -p "$1"/boot && INSTALL_PATH="$1"/boot make install
<vova>
thanks sewn and ukky
<sewn>
also some people have different needs like modules or nvidia builtin or needing grub
<vova>
I went for `make INSTALL_PATH="$1/boot" install`
<vova>
my kernel is working, I need just to find what firmwares are missing
<sewn>
it can basically just be three lines
<sewn>
vova: consult dmesg for that
<sewn>
and make linux-firmware
<vova>
I did it
<sewn>
yippee
<vova>
just forgot to add realtek shit for my Ethernet card
<ukky>
vova: do you install kernel modules? For modules the command is different to specify arbitrary path
<sewn>
ukky: you shouldnt use kernel modules
<vova>
yeah I did a make modules_install
<sewn>
if youre building a custom kernel tailored to specific hardware
<vova>
sewn: why ?
<ukky>
sewn: well, I do
<sewn>
having it builtin is better
<sewn>
vova: its useless
<sewn>
its loaded by initramfs
<vova>
but it makes the boot a little bit slower
<sewn>
seriously ?
<vova>
sewn: you use an initramfs ?
<sewn>
no
<sewn>
everything built in, no bootloader
<vova>
efibootmgr
<vova>
nice
<sewn>
i need to get back to kiss urgh
<vova>
what are you running ?
avs_origami has joined #kisslinux
avs_origami has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
avs_origami has joined #kisslinux
<sewn>
vova: alpine linux
<sewn>
my beloved
<sewn>
i tried chimera (way way out of my taste) i try void (i hate maintainers but otherwise is gud, but needs bash) i try guix (my hardware doesnt work) uermmm what else
fultilt has joined #kisslinux
<sewn>
i tried slackware for one hour till i realized i didnt like its design at _all_
<sewn>
crux and sulin look interesting
avs_origami has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
avs_origami has joined #kisslinux
<vova>
alpine is incredible
<vova>
I'm still using it (at least until today0
<vova>
)*
avs_origami has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
avs_origami has joined #kisslinux
avs_origami has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
zlg has joined #kisslinux
<riteo>
my lil cursed cutie pie server runs alpine
<riteo>
diskless mode is great
<riteo>
since it's a laptop motherboard I could maximize the sata port usage for ZFS striping
<midfavila>
slackware is best distro
<midfavila>
:3
<midfavila>
also hi riteo!!!
<riteo>
hi mid!!!!! :DDDD
<midfavila>
how's school treating you?
<riteo>
fine
<midfavila>
good :3
<riteo>
missed quite a lot of lessons but that seems fine
<midfavila>
well, as long as you can pass your tests and you don't get docked credit for cutting class
<midfavila>
even though i had almost perfect marks the dean nearly expelled me from college for cutting class
<riteo>
we'll see, tests are coming like early 2025
<riteo>
oh I don't have any sort of obligation to listen to lessons AFAIAU
<midfavila>
based
<midfavila>
still make an effort to though >:O
<riteo>
also we got good material online, like PDFs
<midfavila>
kiss needs more free skilled labour
<riteo>
yeah yeah lessons are useful
<riteo>
I got scared at first that I had to catch up but looks to be less important than I thought
<midfavila>
first bit is usually whatever, yeah
<midfavila>
when i went to college the first three months was just digital literacy
<midfavila>
i was pulling my hair out the whole time
<riteo>
like last lesson of calculus was like "adaposdihaosipcghamoasmiogsrgo *incomprensible noise*. All right, now we'll introduce this" and it started making sense
<riteo>
yeah lol computer fundamentals I is extremely simple for someone coming from technical school
<midfavila>
it was p a i n
<midfavila>
it was literally like
<midfavila>
"this is a mouse"
<midfavila>
"this is a keyboard"
<midfavila>
"this is a monitor"
<riteo>
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
<riteo>
I'm so sorry lol
<midfavila>
and then it had these stupid simulations of how to use MS word
<riteo>
holy shit that's really basic
<riteo>
that's like elementary school level of basic
<midfavila>
and if you used shortcuts instead of following exact instructions it penalised you
<midfavila>
so like you can't C-c C-v
<midfavila>
you *have* to right click copy, right click paste
<riteo>
I feel lucky then, we went straight to data encoding and shit like that
<midfavila>
and then it made you draft a document for review and it wouldnt even accept a docx from libreoffice
<riteo>
what degree is that? Like, comsci?
<riteo>
or something different
<midfavila>
nah. sysadmin with spec in compsec was the program i took
<midfavila>
i wanted to go to uni but they wouldn't accept CS110 and CS120 for the computer science program
<riteo>
oh I see
<midfavila>
you needed physics *or* bio *or* chem
<midfavila>
and i foolishly took computer science instead
<riteo>
oh yeah we doing physics too
<riteo>
pain
<midfavila>
extreme pain
<riteo>
looks harder than calculus I, ngl
<midfavila>
i wouldnt know i never took calculus lel
<midfavila>
i still need to get back to studying math at some point
<riteo>
people went all like "noooo calculus is sooo hard :cry: :cry: :cry:" but calculus seems way simpler than phys
<riteo>
I mean, calculus is an invented thing, completely from scratch
<riteo>
it has its own language to solve problems
* midfavila
does a big shrug
<riteo>
not that much different from what programmers do I think
<riteo>
the structure is different but there's even conditions and iterations in mathematical notations, so... I guess it's like programming?
<riteo>
nyways yeah, stuff is slowly moving, albeit caothically as usual but that's because I'm a mess in general
<riteo>
still can't shrug off the inverted sleep cycle
<riteo>
what about you?
<midfavila>
same as always tbh
<midfavila>
just grinding away
<midfavila>
need to make another cross toolchain for the kiss port to the r01
<midfavila>
going to start tinkering with an LFS using `pm`
<midfavila>
on a long weekend for armistice day
<midfavila>
i havent gotten out of bed aside from briefly making more moka = w=
<riteo>
what's an LFS?
<midfavila>
linux from scratch
<riteo>
oh all right
<riteo>
why is it so hard to port kiss to r01?
<midfavila>
i have officially proclaimed that kiss is b l o a t
<riteo>
like, how do the fancy distros with 97398789439757329857289 components work on rv01
<riteo>
midfavila: lol you reminded me
<midfavila>
frankly it's because i have no idea what i'm doing lmao
<riteo>
I made a retronym for bloat for my dream distro
<midfavila>
i also took a little while off to do stuff at work
<midfavila>
i have everything except gcc and git building
<midfavila>
natively i mean
<midfavila>
the thing that's tricky is that the r01 is slow as balls
<riteo>
ooooh I see
<riteo>
tried using ccache?
<midfavila>
so if i wanna test a native build i need to wait literally an entire day to build it
<midfavila>
yeah
<midfavila>
it doesn't help too much
<midfavila>
even extracting gcc takes like 20 minutes :v
<riteo>
doing an incremental build or a fresh kiss pkg from start?
<midfavila>
usually i fiddle with incremental when i'm trying to work out a proper config and solve build issues
<riteo>
yeah that's a good move
<riteo>
btw, I henceforth will declare bloat as BLoAT: Biased Level of Added Things
<midfavila>
i approve
<midfavila>
:3
<riteo>
Thank you UwU
<riteo>
nyways, you how handling status bars?
<riteo>
I initially had a huge atrocious bash script invoking multiple things (including dbus-based CLI utilities) running every single fucking second but it was unbearable
<midfavila>
i havent run a status bar for a while but when i did i had an rc script that ran functions to update the status bar every few seconds
<midfavila>
so like the weather script ran every five minutes for example
<riteo>
I see so that's the norm
<midfavila>
yeb
<riteo>
Hear me out
<riteo>
poll(2) based thing that listens to fifos
<riteo>
each fifo is an indicator
<riteo>
then a bunch of processes asynchronously (when possible) update the thing
<midfavila>
maybe. i don't think the usual approach is that bad.
<midfavila>
it works:tm:
<riteo>
Yeah
<thomas_adam>
Sounds messy to me.
<riteo>
but I had multiple IPC busses trashed
<riteo>
pipewire freaking out because of wp-cli
<riteo>
dbus system (don't judge me) for iwd
<midfavila>
asynchronous stuff when a single thread isn't enough performance wise would be fine but when all you're doing is running a oneliner every X minutes...
<riteo>
well the idea is to not achieve redundant work
* midfavila
shrugs
<riteo>
I'm not dreaming, this is what I'm doing rn
<riteo>
like, it works
<riteo>
I have it
<riteo>
the advantage is also faster refreshing for stuff like audio
<midfavila>
yeah but you're introducing a buncha extra complexity to achieve minimal gains. ionno that's just my take
<midfavila>
i have bad computer opinions
<midfavila>
- w-
<riteo>
Would there be a cleaner way?
<riteo>
I'm not sure that executing 50 processes each second is a clean and simple solution
<midfavila>
i don't tho
<midfavila>
i usually have a single shell script that runs in an infinite loop and most of the time it's sleeping
<midfavila>
checks conditions every so often, runs a function to update data as needed, goes back to sleep
<riteo>
how can you do that not so often?
<riteo>
what bar do you use?
<midfavila>
i was using uhhhhhhhhhhh
<midfavila>
geesh
<riteo>
mine is swaybar and has only a single "please print newline thx" interface
<midfavila>
i think lemonbar?
<midfavila>
at the time?
<midfavila>
then i was using stump's integrated modeline for a while
<riteo>
so if I want to update the time my cpu goes wheeeeeeeee for a fraction of a second to do a shitload of calculations it could do like every 5 seconds or not at all since it could be polling netlink
<midfavila>
i just run `date` every minute
<riteo>
yeah lemonbar looks similar to waybar
<riteo>
I see, that makes sense
<riteo>
I am a dumby and like seconds in my clock
<midfavila>
weather data was pulled from a METAR station and formatted by printf
<midfavila>
etc etc
<midfavila>
then all of that got stuck together and pushed to lemonbar
<riteo>
yeah I see though why you don't need fancy stuff
<riteo>
like 1 each minute who cares
<riteo>
but I also have my volume there, my wifi, my IP and a shitload of stuff
<riteo>
CPU stat, temperature, swap, brightness, fking battery power, scheduler, charging state
<midfavila>
tbh i don't see why you're worried about running a spare process or two every other minute
<riteo>
not every other minute
<riteo>
every sec
<midfavila>
even then :p
<riteo>
I have seconds in my date
<riteo>
I'm quite sure it ate a watt off my cpu when idle
<thomas_adam>
I use lemonbar with fvwm3, it's quite nice.
<riteo>
and it trashed the pipewire bus
<midfavila>
fvwm is sweet
<riteo>
like, I could see every second a new client entering, querying and leaving
<midfavila>
especially being able to swallow other x windows
<riteo>
am I overdoing this status thing
<thomas_adam>
But if you were going to go with some crude poll() method, I'd probably suggested using libevent.
<riteo>
what's libevent?
<thomas_adam>
libevent.org
<midfavila>
btw thomas_adam would you consider it a fool's errand to implement some dumb shim for xrandr in the xfbdev server to support fvwm3?
<midfavila>
i have a machine that can't run standard x.org but i'd still like to run fvwm3
<riteo>
thomas_adam: uuhhh pretty library thx
<riteo>
still I need the fifos as a lot of stuff listens to different places and IMO multiple threads would be a pain
<riteo>
like, locking and shit
<riteo>
so I can have a shitty 5 sec script for the sysfs awkies, one that listens to netlink for ip, one that listens to netlink (another namespace) for the battery, one that listens for pipewire and another for dbus iwd shit
<riteo>
I mean the fact that nobody did this kinda worries me a bit, it looks really trivial but perhaps I'm missing the big picture
<thomas_adam>
midfavila: I don't think that's going to work. The kdrive backend would need to be changed (xfbdev). Mind you, xephyr already handles randr, so it might be worth looking to see how that does it, and whether you can make it work with xfbdev. There wouldn't have to be any changes to fvwm3 to support this.
<midfavila>
hmmm. that's fair. i need to look into X more anyway - maybe a holiday project
<thomas_adam>
riteo: CPU overhead, FD exhaustion, ironically, it would drain the battery...
<thomas_adam>
midfavila: Also, xfbdev died a death years ago.
<riteo>
I mean compared to a shell script with 50 process invocations would it really drain more than that
<riteo>
the other option would be to make shared modules with threads but that sounds extremely more complex, or just cram every single thing in an executable
<thomas_adam>
riteo: If you're doing N forks() to get information, then yes.
<midfavila>
thomas_adam: puppy and tinycore have been patching it for their uses, but yeah, i'm aware. like i said though, standard X doesn't run on these systems, nor does wayland on one, to my knowledge
<thomas_adam>
I've not been following those projects.
<thomas_adam>
I could take a look at some point though.
<riteo>
how is a big shell script using less FDs than 5 processes?
<midfavila>
i've successfully patched it to support more recent architectures as well
<riteo>
you have any tips for this kind of problem? Like, how do other status bars do?
<riteo>
Like, AFAIK, FIFOs get open once and the fd is the same for the lifetime of the "indicator daemon"
<thomas_adam>
riteo: They'll just listen on a fifo and block, waiting to read from it. For other things, they'll probably just exec a program N times per second. Not great. Look at polybar, for example.
<riteo>
yeah I agree that that's not great, that's why I wanted to make the lil poll based status bar
<riteo>
but if you say that poll(2) based daemons writing to fifos are heavier than a script...
<riteo>
i'm kinda lost
<riteo>
like, even just invoking wp-cli, and awking shit is going to do quite a bunch of nasty things, then shell scripts open/close files all day long
<riteo>
compared to a small native pipewire program that listens for events and outputs a number to the same fd
<riteo>
sorry if I'm misunderstanding something
<midfavila>
brb
<midfavila>
covfefe
<riteo>
nyways if anybody can correct me I'd be glad
<riteo>
like yes my approach might be a bit more "complex" than a monolithic script but from all that I can see it uses _drastically_ less resources
<midfavila>
back
<riteo>
btw, midfavila it's not that you "have bad computer opinions", I think you just have your complexity vs resources "bar" set differently
<riteo>
like, I'm extremely in favour of relatively "complex" systems that use resources as efficiently as possible, be it network bandwidth or cpu power
<midfavila>
yeah that's definitely it i'm just blehhhh
<riteo>
"complexity" is not bound to "weight" necessarily (yes I am aware that those are very vague words)
<midfavila>
i'm very much a 10% for 90% person
<riteo>
like my dream distro will be relatively complex but try to work as offline as possible
<riteo>
midfavila: yeah that's fine
<riteo>
that's also how kisslinux is thought I think
<riteo>
it's very... rough but it achieves to do a metric fucking ton of things with basically nothing
<riteo>
Maybe that's why I consider it a bit "proof-of-concepty"