phoebos changed the topic of #kisslinux to: Unofficial KISS Linux community channel | | post logs or else | song of the day
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<midfavila> gonna try to set up a common lisp wayland compositor on here
<midfavila> i figure if i have to use wayland i might as well explore some of the more interesting options for GUIs
<midfavila> a little while ago i came across an emacsen written in common lisp too so i might try that out as well
<midfavila> instead of gnumacs
<sewn> oh my allah
<midfavila> lisp shall rise again inshallah
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<midfavila> ngl i might also just run guix on this
<midfavila> dunno yet
<midfavila> i like tinkering with kiss but maintaining a repo for a regular pc is a lot of work already
<macewentoo> its honest work
<midfavila> it doesn't pay the bills or really achieve much in my case
<macewentoo> anyone else feel that "linux" communities these days are filled with posers and ppl trying for attention
<midfavila> that's just the internet at large
<macewentoo> i feel like every channel is full of meaningless debates and "i just installed Linux look at me
<macewentoo> zero tinkering discussion, try to ask some technical questions, crickets
<midfavila> i dunno depends on the channel
<midfavila> but it's definitely slowed down overall
<midfavila> usenet is usually pretty good
<macewentoo> the morons who push for linux popularity are ruining the entire thing. never force something to be popular , quality over quantity always
<macewentoo> can you recommend a channel?
<macewentoo> im looking for a community as good as kiss but a bit more active
<macewentoo> as in competent but also coversant
<macewentoo> all most users know these days are emerge apt install and pacman whatever
<midfavila> i'm biased but #mnt-reform is pretty good
<macewentoo> any thoughts on xz here? personally im migrating away forever, there are too many archive formats in the first place. gz is enough for me. space isnt an issue in current world
<sewn> macewentoo: #chimera-linux and #oasis
<sewn> macewentoo: zstd>
<macewentoo> cool thanks
<sewn> oasis isnt as active but its still has some people sometimes
<sewn> there are misc channels like ##posix which are fun
<sewn> please let me know if youve found something interetsing too
<macewentoo> yea i saw that one while browsing channels just now
<midfavila> macewentoo on my systems i just use ncompress
<midfavila> in theory .Z is the standard unix compression format
<midfavila> man i am totally out of my comfort zone when it comes to looking at porting a distro to the reform though
<macewentoo> i just go with tar lately, too lazy even to do any real compression, maybe my use cases dont include massive file sizes
<macewentoo> but i really feel like space isnt that big of an issue anymore
<midfavila> i disagree
<midfavila> when you have your entire OS' source code backed up or multimedia or whatever it's an issue for sure
<macewentoo> like i said my use case is less important
<macewentoo> data hoarding (i do it too) then it becomes an issue
<macewentoo> but i usually just buy more disk space instead. having to decompress stuff to access it is too inconvenient for me
<midfavila> if you have the means then that's fair
<macewentoo> i guess i feel that compression in general is a bit over used. we tend to throw everything in a fancy archive in a non kiss sort of way when a tar would do, saving mbs in space for the overhead and now additonal package dependency (security risk)
<macewentoo> i guess the xz stuff just changed me profoundly
<midfavila> i mean honestly at that point just stop using modern software
<midfavila> not even trying to be mean there
<macewentoo> its not mean, just an overreaction
<midfavila> it's a hopeless endeavour to try and be reasonably secure using any recent bit of kit
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<midfavila> not really
<midfavila> i mean i guess you could like
<midfavila> get away with 9front or something
<macewentoo> well limiting archives to tar isnt avoiding all modern software
<macewentoo> its a bit extreme
<midfavila> okay, but look
<midfavila> if you're going to forsake compression because security
<midfavila> like
<midfavila> you should have way bigger concerns than a backdoor in xz
<macewentoo> and i do agree everything is insecure and full of bugs
<midfavila> like idk the fact that basically all modern processors have hardware backdoors
<macewentoo> but im not gonna trust something that blatant twice
<midfavila> or that printers put invisible identification marks onto anything you get them to pritn
<midfavila> print*
<midfavila> so on and so forth
<macewentoo> like you have to look at the type of vulnerability, accidental bug, deliberate backdoor, etc
<macewentoo> they are not equal
<midfavila> i think the effect is more important than the acuse
<midfavila> cause*
<macewentoo> both are important to me at leasr
<macewentoo> sure for example if a bank closes due to depression you lose money. but if a bank takes ur money and runs to bangladesh,
<macewentoo> id never ever use the 2nd bank again
<midfavila> banks are bloat
<midfavila> use a credit union
<macewentoo> but i have no illusions that any software we use are secure
<macewentoo> some ppl just dont like to be cheated in a certain way
<midfavila> man
<macewentoo> ill look into unions, thanks, i thought about it
<midfavila> unrelated
<midfavila> fuck github so hard
<midfavila> why did they have to fuck with their releases section
<midfavila> you can't get tarballs now without a full browser
<macewentoo> yea i hate it too
<macewentoo> my gripe is that i use a browser without JavaScript and they dont support it
<macewentoo> simple as
<midfavila> yeah that's my point
<midfavila> all i want is a fuckin
<midfavila> set of links
<midfavila> that's not hard
<midfavila> that's the easiest shit in the world
<midfavila> like just give me something ala gopher
<midfavila> but no
<macewentoo> its just a webdir that you could easily write in html
<macewentoo> PLaIN html
<midfavila> you need a JS engine in your browser integrated with the DOM so that you can load a frame that fetches a bunch of other shit
* midfavila groans and rubs his temples
<midfavila> just...
<midfavila> ...give me an ftp server or gopher or literally anything else...
<macewentoo> i swear all these sites just have some excuse for users to enable js
<macewentoo> so they can start a telemetry worker in the backgrounds
<macewentoo> just git clone that garbage
<midfavila> honestly i don't even like git
<midfavila> forces you to use curl and a lot of the time you then need to have autotools
<midfavila> which locks you into GNU
<midfavila> and like
<midfavila> i don't want to use GNU
<midfavila> i want to use UNIX
<macewentoo> i agree but its the only way to get around browser trash
<midfavila> no, it's not
<midfavila> just release a tarball on an ftp server
<macewentoo> for github yes
<midfavila> anyay
<midfavila> on github
<midfavila> ganyway*
<midfavila> fuck
<midfavila> aaaaaaaaaaa
<midfavila> i'm having a hard time with this new keeb
<midfavila> ANYWAY
<macewentoo> they literally didnt invent any new or innovative stuff last 20 yrs
<midfavila> i don't want to run everything off a pull from master
<macewentoo> just stuff to replace things that worked fine previously
<midfavila> i usually prefer to run the latest LTS release of hings
<macewentoo> like ftp
<midfavila> things*
<midfavila> and i'm (trying) to slowly replace existing software like curl with simple homebrew alternatives
<midfavila> so a tarball on an http or ftp or w/e server is just infinitely easier
<macewentoo> curl is complex softwsre too
<midfavila> open a connection over a socket, shunt a GET down the line, read and write in a loop, exit
<macewentoo> the maintainer acts like hot shit on github
<midfavila> yeah i know
<midfavila> i'm really not a fan of curl
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<midfavila> a simple tcp client shouldn't be more than a few hundred lines
<macewentoo> they were trying to rewrite parts of it in rust too
<midfavila> disgusting
<macewentoo> luckily he didnt get far
<midfavila> god i wish i was more competent so i could give this sort of thing my own shot
<midfavila> free software is great but it doesn't mean shit if the end user can't program competently
<macewentoo> yea same here
<midfavila> but i'm too fucking busy with trying to like
<midfavila> not die
<midfavila> to do anything else
<macewentoo> did you try to write an ftp client in c? im sure there are projects oit there
<midfavila> i started work on a small multiprotocol client a couple years ago in ANSI C using the POSIX standard library
<macewentoo> the key is being portable but is unix network sockets uniform across the board or lots of edge cases
<midfavila> HTTP, Gopher, and TLS, with redirect support for HTTP
<midfavila> that was as far as i got
<midfavila> used libtls for portability
<macewentoo> maybe just do one protocol to keep things simple
<midfavila> it really wasn't that hard
<macewentoo> you prob tried to do too much heh
<macewentoo> thats what i do
<midfavila> no i just didn't have time
<midfavila> i'm like
<midfavila> speedrunning my early 20s
<macewentoo> first i forked kiss then im making my own from scratch
<macewentoo> still work in progress
<midfavila> like i'm looking at having a mortgage before 23
<midfavila> i've already finished post-sec
<macewentoo> you still have a ton of time, im almost 40, you need to take things easy
<macewentoo> look at dylan who burned out
<midfavila> doing all this shit by myself and my fuckin lizard brain is too focused on dontdiedontdiedontdiedontdiedontdie to care about anything abstract
<macewentoo> that is the lesson
<macewentoo> you need to take it slow
<midfavila> the problem is that if you don't have access to wealth and good career options early on in life you're basically fucked
<midfavila> like pre-25
<macewentoo> having a big goal is good, but not at the cost of everything else
<midfavila> and i don't feel like working menial jobs until the day i die
<macewentoo> this is the modern age, you will need to be patient, ppl live to their 90s
<macewentoo> u still have 60 yrs to go
<midfavila> bold of you to assume that society won't collapse by 2030
<macewentoo> the best thing i can say is its a more of a marathon than most ppl think
<macewentoo> ppl think life is over by age 30s
<macewentoo> but they are dead wrong
<macewentoo> thats when your prime begins
<macewentoo> thats beyond our control
<macewentoo> you shouldnt plan for doomsday stuff
<midfavila> that's all well and good if you can afford to take the time to fuck around in your twenties but i don't have that luxury xwx
<macewentoo> nah i wasted most of it in school
<macewentoo> didnt have a penny till 29
<macewentoo> all debt
<midfavila> and i mean it's less doomsday and more "nobody can afford food or housing or medicine and the world is rapidly accelerating towards ww3"
<macewentoo> things are bad yes
<midfavila> like everyone is focused on israel rn but the situation with taiwan is terrifying
<macewentoo> but we should still plan to live to 100
<macewentoo> if you dont shoot for 100, then why bother with everything now?
<macewentoo> just give up now
<macewentoo> and if you do shoot for 100, its a marathon
<macewentoo> not a mad dash
<macewentoo> you will legit die from tiring yourself out
<macewentoo> ppl thought it was doomsday during the Soviet days, what about the ppl who lived thru 2 world wars?
<macewentoo> you just have to keep going. thats what makes humans great
<macewentoo> go read the story about mozart. great musician, but he wanted to do everything before he turned 40, result, he died at 37 or so, overworked and exhausted himself to death
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<sewn> never seen kisslinux be this active
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<riteo> and that's nice :D
<riteo> At least personally I find really little chance to have nice, long and thoughtful interactions, especially when it comes to tech stuff
<riteo> I remember the first time I went to a convention and i was like AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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<riteo> I need to interact more with people
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<macewentoo> riteo i think the issue for many, including me is we like to erect a barrier around ourselves to protect against the perceived (but not always objectively) increasing chaos. it works well but it can hinder social opportunities in all areas
<macewentoo> add on top of that adult responsibilities drain ppl of the energy required to interact at a high level for leisure purposes
<riteo> mh yeah, that's a fair PoV