phoebos changed the topic of #kisslinux to: Unofficial KISS Linux community channel | | post logs or else | song of the day
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<midfavila> man
<midfavila> i am still struggling with the whole "using a computer like a normal person" thing
<midfavila> really not my gig
<midfavila> anyway
<midfavila> i wanted to see if anyone here knows the status of k and other future developments of kiss
<sad_plan> build oassi already, and you dont have to
<sad_plan> s/oassi/oasis
<sad_plan> k been dead for years. phoebos works on his lua implementation from time to time iirc
<midfavila> heck
<midfavila> yeah that's what i figured
<midfavila> kiss seems kind of vegetative compared to a few years ago
<sad_plan> phoebos: C implenetation hasnt seen any commits since last year. I know there was a rust implementation aswell. ehawkvu made a implementation in lisp or something aswwell
<midfavila> rip
<sad_plan> elisp to be corrct.
<sad_plan> think thats the more feature complete one to date
<midfavila> yeah i saw that
<midfavila> it's neat
<midfavila> i'm just trying to think of ways to get back into programming
<midfavila> kiss kind of provided an environment that incentivized writing my own stuff
<midfavila> but not being able to run X seriously dampens a lot of my plans
<midfavila> i guess i could get *really* good with curses
<midfavila> that could be interesting actually
<sad_plan> have you tried tinyx though? i know you said xorg is.. finnicky on the reform, but I figured maybe tinyx works
<midfavila> tinyx might
<midfavila> the default reform image uses xwayland with some hacks
<midfavila> i did try to run standard X using the fbdev driver because i heard it was an issue with the etnaviv driver or something
<sad_plan> it doesnt use upstream sources on debian?
<midfavila> for most things it does
<sad_plan> but no everything. I see
<midfavila> yeah just a few things
<midfavila> like for example you need to use out of tree kernel modules for some of the hardware
<midfavila> they're trying to upstream them tho
<sad_plan> I recall hearing about that
<midfavila> ngl if tinyx runs that would be sweet
<sad_plan> think it was in a video. unless you mentioned it yourself earlier
<sad_plan> for sure
<sad_plan> give it a go. hopefully it works
<midfavila> one way or another i'm going to find a way to build on that old aarch64 image on github and get a reform rootfs up
<midfavila> that's my project for the next bit
<midfavila> i'm too used to kiss to use anything else lmao
<sad_plan> sweet
<sad_plan> I can relate. I hate using artix on my desktop, but honeslty, I use some things on it that would be cumbersome as hell on kiss to bother to maintain..
<midfavila> oh my ghodddddddddddddddd
<midfavila> debian's autotools are broken
<midfavila> what the fuck
<sad_plan> amazing
<midfavila> unless this is another instance of them splitting essential runtime files into separate packages
<midfavila> i bet you it is
<midfavila> honestly fuck doobiedoo's packaging system
<midfavila> i dont care how enterprise it is, its a pain in my ass
<sad_plan> agree
<midfavila> i can appreciate separating different things into different files
<midfavila> e.g. so into -dev doc into -doc and so on
<sad_plan> I kinda hate those foo-libs or foo-dev...
<midfavila> but your meta package should pull in everything needed to start using it
<midfavila> like if autotools needs a bunch of m4 libraries you should pull in -dev
<midfavila> jfc
<sad_plan> I get why they do it, but alot of times I would rather they not be split
<midfavila> same
<midfavila> and i mean tbqh unix just historically hasn't been designed for binary systems
<midfavila> it's always been the case that you get source code
<midfavila> otherwise there are too many differences even between versions of the same system
<midfavila> [for a binary to run]
<midfavila> man how do you fuck up your autotools package
<midfavila> it's literally just a pile of shell and m4 libraries
<sad_plan> I get that. I remember I thought to myself after not using artix for a while, and when I was going to install something I though to myself; what sourcery is this? no building? oh, wait..
<sad_plan> just download my tarball instead, and you dont need autotools
<sad_plan> ive just ran autotools beforehand
<midfavila> honestly a lot of projects don't even need autotools in the first place...
<midfavila> i've seen repos with like five source files and all the final makefile does is link them into a single ELF
<midfavila> and it's like
<midfavila> just fuckign
<midfavila> bruv
<midfavila> use a plain makefile
<midfavila> my duder
<sad_plan> i knoow
<midfavila> praise gpm
<sad_plan> gpm?
<midfavila> it's a mouse driver
<midfavila> works in tty too
<sad_plan> ah
<midfavila> userspace daemon
<sad_plan> nice
<midfavila> ye
<midfavila> lots of programs have support for it like links
<midfavila> even when they don't you still get cut and paste
<sad_plan> convinient
<midfavila> alright well i'm trusting you didn't fuck with the scripts to steal all my porn
<sad_plan> I didnt touch anything :p its even in kiss-xorg now
<midfavila> poggies
<midfavila> :3
<sad_plan> :D
<midfavila> idk what the state of kiss is mainline but i'd love to start a little committee devoted to writing small KISS-style replacements for larger programs
<midfavila> X to whatever as samurai is to ninja and so on
<sad_plan> could be interesting
<midfavila> well like for example
<midfavila> not to humblebrag
<midfavila> but for the .2 seconds i had apport working it was pretty slick
<midfavila> and i feel like a <=500SLOC ANSI C client would be better than say
<midfavila> curl
<midfavila> in the default image
<sad_plan> if it works with git, I would perhaps consider a switch. aswell as all other downloads I do on a regular basis ofc
<midfavila> shit that's right you need libcurl for git
<midfavila> uggggggh
<sad_plan> yep
<midfavila> i switched my kiss fork to purely tarballs years ago
<sad_plan> I avoided git checkouts too, because they require internet. and I kinda hated that
<sad_plan> I still use git regardless for other tasks though
<sad_plan> so.. I still need libcurl
<midfavila> yeah fair
<midfavila> i saw a from-scratch git implementation by some AROS guys a few years ago
<midfavila> i think they're still working on it
<midfavila> it doesn't need curl but it's also pretty early on
<macewentoo> heres my take on reimagining kiss. make all the bare minimum packages required to run a gui or no gui, eg x. use appimages for everything else, wine, firefox
<midfavila> >appimage
<midfavila> >on kiss
<midfavila> JANNIES
<macewentoo> easy to get up and running, and no heckling with complex packages
<sad_plan> macewentoo: just use oasis. no complex packages
<macewentoo> use some imagination please. keep making things difficult for youself
<macewentoo> its unnecessary to build Firefox from scratch
<macewentoo> face it
<sad_plan> hell, use my oakiss, best of both worlds
<sad_plan> I dont use firefox
<midfavila> macewentoo on kiss i don't use firefox
<midfavila> i use a patched version of links2
<macewentoo> sure, i mean for those who want to
<sad_plan> I would like to use firefox, but I think its dependencies aswell as firefox itself is terrible to build
<macewentoo> appimage isnt snap or flatpak. dunno what hes on about
<midfavila> if i *strictly* need to use a website then i just run a debian netinst
<midfavila> in qemu
<midfavila> in the future i'd like to set it up so that i can X forward
<midfavila> run firefox on the VM but display it on the host
<macewentoo> jesus
<midfavila> you underestimate my autism and the lengths i'll go to to maintain the purity of my hugbox OS
<macewentoo> its a bit too extreme
<macewentoo> purity is good but so is sanity
<midfavila> you're talkjing to someone who put together a kiss rootfs that had no GNU software at all
<midfavila> i'm kind of known for being insane
<midfavila> dailied it for like three months
<macewentoo> im not a fan of gnu software either
<sad_plan> midfavila: so you used a pure clang/llvm?
<macewentoo> but if you cant use software and get work done whats the point
<midfavila> sad_plan no
<macewentoo> the point of a computer is to help us compute, not to just exist
<midfavila> tcc
<midfavila> macewentoo incorrect
<sad_plan> thought you didnt get everything running with tcc
<midfavila> i own computers specifically so i can look at them
<midfavila> sad_plan i got most stuff running
<midfavila> it was gnu m4 that was the biggest challenge
<macewentoo> thats fine for you. keep it up
<sad_plan> cool. a gui aswell?
<midfavila> i replaced it with quasar m4 which is an updated version of the m4 in software tools
<midfavila> yep[
<sad_plan> tinyx?
<midfavila> i had the standard X distribution compiled or bootstrapped off another system
<midfavila> ye
<sad_plan> awesome
<midfavila> tinyx plus twm and friends
<midfavila> very comfy
<midfavila> had a tiny emacs clone
<sad_plan> so theres hope for cproc and tinyx aswell
<midfavila> :3
<macewentoo> you gonna end up like that temple os dude
<midfavila> oh sick
<midfavila> macewentoo yes
<midfavila> that is the goal actually
<midfavila> i wish i was 1% as talented as terry
<macewentoo> its like the 90s where they idolize drugs and music but with operating systems
<midfavila> also
<midfavila> macewentoo i can get all of my work done using emacs and standard unix tools
<midfavila> as long as i can get an emacs or similar and i have a posix environment i'm set
<midfavila> even at work i just do everything in emacs
<midfavila> my work desktop at the office boots directly into emacs
<midfavila> :3
<midfavila> the boss has no idea what kind of autism he's enabling by making me the only IT guy on premises
<sad_plan> little does he now that one day, all the machines run kiss all of a sudden
<midfavila> i'm not there
<midfavila> *yet*
<midfavila> but i am moving everything over to PINE64 hardware running plain debian
<sad_plan> I see
<midfavila> and replacing our pooprietary piece of shit machine with odoo+nextcloud and a dot matrix printer hooked up to a pinetab
<sad_plan> dope
<macewentoo> i got a pinephone, worst piece of junk i ever used, are pines other stuff any better
<midfavila> yes
<midfavila> if you got the standard pinephone it's going to be shite
<macewentoo> not that im ever gonna trust them again
<midfavila> i have a pinenote and it's sick
<midfavila> only tablet i've ever enjoyed
<midfavila> pinephone is mostly a tinker toy
<midfavila> pinephone pro is production grade
<sad_plan> I dont get why pine used such dated hardware when they released it tbh
<midfavila> might have been limited by cost or software support
<sad_plan> I like to belive that if they used somewhat better hardware, it mightve been more successfull
<macewentoo> meh, i dont feel like trusting them. i read pro wasnt that much better
<sad_plan> probably
<macewentoo> the cost way higher
<midfavila> remember that pinephone was also like
<midfavila> their first real product
<sad_plan> pro was somewhat better
<midfavila> that really put them on the map
<midfavila> prior to that they were super niche
<macewentoo> so do any of you main the pro as a phone daily
<sad_plan> what did they even do before the pinephone?
<midfavila> SBCs
<sad_plan> right
<midfavila> macewentoo i use a 200$ samsar that i bought in cash
<sad_plan> I dont have any pine products. but I was eying the pinephone pro for a while, but I sortof gave up. I would be better of with a android anyway, and just use termux or something
<midfavila> i'm going to replace it with a uconsole
<midfavila> because autism
<macewentoo> stick with the android
<sad_plan> thought you moved away from the idea of the uconsole mid
<midfavila> i don't love the uconsole but it's the closest to my ideal
<sad_plan> why not build a pi zero phone?
<midfavila> add silicone gaskets to protect the internals, swap life for lifepo, and replace the standard LCD with an e-ink display and it's basically ideal
<midfavila> because i want to get the risc-v version
<sad_plan> I see
<sad_plan> and the uconsole has a risc-v version?
<midfavila> yes
<midfavila> r01
<sad_plan> didnt know that
<midfavila> with cellular talk and text it's 189usd
<sad_plan> cool
<midfavila> well, talk/text/data
<midfavila> put my unlimited sim in there with hostapd and similar and i'll have an entire network in my pocket
<midfavila> i've heard the r01 runs on a set of 18650s for like 10+ hours under constant load too
<sad_plan> neat
<midfavila> yeah
<midfavila> the main issue with it is the lack of a GPU and only having 1gb of ram
<midfavila> but like
<midfavila> that's the sort of environment kiss shines in
<sad_plan> for terminal stuff I dont think that matters much tbh
<midfavila> the lack of a gpu doesn't but it does limit the sort of conventional software you can run
<midfavila> i think there's a framebuffer but no gpu so it's all software
<midfavila> viewing a gif or jpg or something would be fine but anything more and you're out of luck
<sad_plan> right
<midfavila> still though if you're just gonna like
<midfavila> chat via irc
<midfavila> do some emails
<midfavila> light programming
<midfavila> text browsing
<midfavila> etc
<midfavila> uconsole is great
<sad_plan> I suppose so
<midfavila> my main gripes with it beyond what i mentioned above would be
<midfavila> i guess the lack of a serial and/or db-9 serial connection either onboard or via expansion port
<midfavila> s/serial/rj-45/
<sad_plan> why does that matter?
<midfavila> that'd mean you wouldn't need to carry around a laptop or a pile of dongles to get at uarts and stuff
<midfavila> for serial
<sad_plan> I see
<midfavila> rj45 is just a nice to have
<sad_plan> wont usb-C to rj45 work?
<sad_plan> assuming the uconsole can do that ofc
<midfavila> A-rj45but yeah probably
<midfavila> my point is that you wanna be able to minimize dongles and stuff though
<sad_plan> sure
<sad_plan> cant help but feel like having to use dongles is now an apple thing, because of their macs, which has almost no I/O
<midfavila> it's always been a problem for small computers
<midfavila> but apple exaggerated the issue
<sad_plan> they sure did
<sad_plan> > carries a sleek minimalistic laptop. needs 4 dongles
<midfavila> >carries a laptop thicker than a 20yo powerbook
<midfavila> >gets stopped by TSA because they think it's a bomb
<sad_plan> awesome
<midfavila> waiting for that to happen when i visit the usa
<midfavila> the midfavila experience
<midfavila> "what the fuck is a uconsole"
<sad_plan> as expected
<midfavila> ngl i kind of want a hip holster for the uconsole lmao
<sad_plan> lol
<midfavila> drill some holes in the top for a big chunky directional antenna
<sad_plan> cant help but thinking people would give you wierd looks if you sat on a bench with that thing typing away some code or something. or making a call
<sad_plan> sure security would be called
<midfavila> i've already been arrested for playing MUDs in class
<sad_plan> s/sure/surely/
<midfavila> i dont have any fuks left to give
<midfavila> fucks*
<sad_plan> whats MUDs?
<midfavila> multi user dungeons
<sad_plan> good one you. no fucks is best fucks
<midfavila> text based mmorpgs
<sad_plan> I see
<midfavila> i'm a regular on
<midfavila> telnet to 4354 for a good time
<midfavila> :3
<sad_plan> I dont have telnet
<midfavila> wh
<midfavila> do you not have inetutils?
<sad_plan> no
<midfavila> how do you function
<midfavila> i would literally die without inetutils
<sad_plan> perfectly fine
<midfavila> although ngl i wanna write my own telnet/ftp/etc client
<midfavila> inetutils is hge
<midfavila> huge
<midfavila> fuck
<midfavila> i still haven't adjusted to this board
<sad_plan> I dont really use much besides sbase/ubase stuff tbh
<sad_plan> well, and a browser ofc
<midfavila> my usual setup is like
<midfavila> all of the stock X11 programs plus Emacs, Xmh, Xrn, Links2 with tabbed, ffmpeg, the inetutils, and dropbear
<midfavila> anything i cant run in C i try to run in elisp and if that fails i just run it in virtualized doobien
<midfavila> oh my god what the fuck where is the xfont package
<midfavila> i have libxfont2 and -dev installed and it still won't detect it
<sad_plan> I still cant get tabbed to work under tinyx. ive tried several times, and it just wont register my keys. maybe because I use sxhkd..
<sad_plan> tinyx uses libXfont1
<sad_plan> not 2
<midfavila> sad_plan did you check xev
<GalaxyNova> midfavila: inetutils are old
<midfavila> galaxynova your mom is old
<midfavila> anyway
<GalaxyNova> use the new `ip` command!
<midfavila> no
<midfavila> i refuse
<GalaxyNova> it's new therefore it's better
<midfavila> anyway,
<midfavila> tinyx doesn't use xkb as i'm sure you know
<midfavila> so you have to manually set up your keymap for some modifiers
<midfavila> like alt iirc
<sad_plan> I think I did when I messed with it earlier
<sad_plan> I can check again
<sad_plan> midfavila: yeah no, the keyboard shortcuts dont work for me. which has been the case from the start with tinyx
<midfavila> rip
<midfavila> if i can get tinyx running i'll check things out
<midfavila> i'll be shocked if it runs
<midfavila> i think i'm missing some xorg macros
<sad_plan> xev also reports the correct keys aswell. I dont get why it dont registrer tbh
<midfavila> just patching some issues with define out rn to see if it'll even build
<midfavila> hmm
<sad_plan> but if you figure out why, that would be dope
<midfavila> that sounds like an issue i had with xedity
<midfavila> edit*
<midfavila> xedit
<midfavila> fuck
<midfavila> i got it working back on the cf-21 but i can't recall how
<midfavila> i think i posted it in here
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<sad_plan> hm
<midfavila> solaare how tough are ya
<midfavila> solaarae*
<midfavila> hmm
<midfavila> made sure to install xutils-dev which apparently includes the xorg macros
<midfavila> but i'm still getting odd errors with e.g GLYPHPADBYTES and IMAGE_WIDTH_SIZE or whatever
<sad_plan> wierd
<midfavila> yeah IMAGE_BYTE_ORDER was the other issue
<midfavila> i'm going to keep fiddling with defines just to get it to build
<midfavila> doubt it's going to work
<midfavila> sounds like something to do with endianness
<midfavila> although arm and x86 are both little iirc
<midfavila> so who knows
<sad_plan> huh, neat. i didnt know I could make surf and st in the same window with xembed
<sad_plan> hm
<midfavila> ye
<midfavila> xembed is sick
<sad_plan> never really played with it before. I know I used tabbed with surf and vimb before, but that was on xorg, not tinyx
<midfavila> i'd love to write an application similar to dialog but using xaw and embed
<midfavila> xembed*
<sad_plan> having tabbed would probably make my workflow somewhat better. atleast for surf
<midfavila> tabbed is nice
<sad_plan> if only its keybindings worked :p
<midfavila> BITMAP_BIT_ORDER is fucky too
<sad_plan> sounds like you got alot of things to figure out :p
<midfavila> well if arm and x86 do have the same endianness it should be fine assuming these are endianness checks
<sad_plan> I wouldnt know
<midfavila> was it xvesa or xfbdev that they revived, again?
<midfavila> if it was xvesa that's a bummer
<sad_plan> think it was xfbdev
<sad_plan> xvesa is pure 32bit
<midfavila> the bigger problem is that vesa is a bios extension
<midfavila> \which means it's an x86 thing
<midfavila> oh hey got it to build
<midfavila> moment of truth
<sad_plan> awesome
<midfavila> OH SHIT
<midfavila> i think it recognized a screen
<midfavila> the bigger issue is that it couldnt open fixed
<midfavila> which for tinyx is odd
<sad_plan> hm
<sad_plan> I think I found a solution for tabbed
<sad_plan> ive managed to start a new tab this time atleast
<sad_plan> I applied the keycodes patch
<midfavila> sick
<sad_plan> yep, that seemed to have done the trick actually. awesome
<midfavila> OH FUCK
<midfavila> I GOT IT
<midfavila> i didnt expect that to work holy shit
<sad_plan> awesome
<midfavila> there's definitely some issues relating to those macros
<midfavila> but that should be an easy fix
<midfavila> hey sad_plan i need a favour
<midfavila> can you find which include on your system or in tinyx's source define GLYPHPADBYTES and similar
<midfavila> idk if it's internal to tinyx or if its from the standard x distrib
<sad_plan> servermd.h in tinyx/include defines it atleast
<sad_plan> mi/miglblt.c uses it
<sad_plan> cant say I spot any of the xlibs that uses it
<midfavila> yeah its internal
<midfavila> there's some pretty good commenting
<sad_plan> yep
<midfavila> it's definitely all about endianness
<sad_plan> is it?
<midfavila> yes
<midfavila> well
<midfavila> paddingbytes isn't
<midfavila> it's about space-time tradeoffs and memory alignment and shit
<midfavila> okay i see
<midfavila> there's no aarch def
<midfavila> it seems
<midfavila> should be an easy fix
<midfavila> i like that they have a def for superh but not aarch lmao
<midfavila> this code must be prehistoric
<sad_plan> its not exacly new anymore :p
<midfavila> yeah i extrapolated
<midfavila> :p
<midfavila> do you know if __arm32__ and similar are a libc thing?
<midfavila> iirc __ is usually reserved for system use or something, right?
<sad_plan> have no idea
<sad_plan> havent gotten to that stage in C yet. im still figuring things out. been working in kings programming book lately
<midfavila> sick
<midfavila> i need to get back into that
<midfavila> i finished most of knr
<midfavila> looks like __.* is compiler defined
<midfavila> so i should be able to just add || __aarch64__ or similar to the end of the def and call it a day
<midfavila> i imagine the arm32 defaults would run fine on the arm64 chip
<midfavila> albeit not at full capacity
<sad_plan> you should. youre way in front of me anyway. but im moving slowly but surely forward. tinyx also has a implicit-int thingy I fixed last week. its probably a terrible fix, but the error went away
<midfavila> do you want to study together?
<midfavila> :3
<sad_plan> if youre interested
<midfavila> a kiss-adjacent study club would be fun
<sad_plan> how would we do that even?
<midfavila> everyone involved could study like
<midfavila> os dev and shit
<midfavila> oh
<midfavila> i mean
<midfavila> sdf has a classroom system
<midfavila> i can set it up there
<midfavila> we can use irc and jitsi and shit
<midfavila> everyone can vote on the topic we want to cover
<midfavila> then we can spend a week or so looking for good materials
<midfavila> argue for each example provided if we dont agree upfront
<midfavila> then vote
<sad_plan> im fine with irc. never really figured out what sdf even is tbqh. even with how much you mentioned it. the site isnt.. very specific about it either :p
<midfavila> there are free classes on edx too
<midfavila> sdf is a public unix system
<midfavila> it's just a really big computer
<midfavila> :p
<sad_plan> I see
<midfavila> you can use it for pretty much whatever
<midfavila> the sysops host a bunch of services for members
<midfavila> its my xmpp gateway and email server for example
<midfavila> and my website host
<sad_plan> dope
<midfavila> ye
<midfavila> its honestly a steal
<midfavila> if you have 36usd crammed somewhere get an arpa membership
<midfavila> one time payment
<midfavila> they do DSL in the states and dialup/dialin service worldwide, too
<midfavila> the latter was like, my only way of using the internet for a year and a half, lmao
<sad_plan> arpa as in american rescue plan? :p
<midfavila> nah
<midfavila> its just their way of having user tiers
<midfavila> also
<midfavila> that little path worked
<midfavila> patch even
<sad_plan> awesome. good to see my terrible C skills does some good
<sad_plan> ive recently started building with -Werror=implicit-function-decleration and some software is terrible. I was however amazed how few packages broke by this though
<sad_plan> i think I got only 3 packages in total
<sad_plan> I found a patch for 1, and fixed the 2 others. it felt good
<midfavila> man
<midfavila> this is sick
<midfavila> certified gpl moment
<midfavila> is xfbdev still maintained
<midfavila> i'd like to submit this to upstream
<midfavila> even if its small
<midfavila> does jedavies log on any more
<midfavila> ?
<midfavila> i want to build a fresh rootfs for aarch64 and i'd like to take over the repo
<midfavila> worst case i start over but he was using a pinebook and idk if he did anything to accommodate it
<midfavila> if he did i'd like to copy it
<midfavila> alternatively if someone here has a pinebook and wants to help with an aarch rootfs (or really any similar device like an rpi or uconsole) could start work on getting some compatibility packages spun up
<sad_plan> awesome. no he does not
<sad_plan> you can probably submit a pr on github, but dunno if itll get accepted. no commits for 2 years or so now
<sewn> why does kisslinux get the most productive and cute conversations when I'm not there
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<sewn> does anyone know any good POSIX shells
<fultilt> I don't, but I'm curious about what you think is lacking in the usual suspects like busybox or dash.
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<angle> all I want is a cool POSIX shell with vim keys and key binds that run a program.
<sewn> fultilt: im using busybox ash
<sewn> and the history is bothering me, it's not saving at all.
<angle> ksh makes you choose (I know it's more than just POSIX)
<angle> sewn: does ash not have history??
<sewn> it does, but its not re-reading
<sewn> my shell history of months was all gone because KISS ash keeps clearing it
<sewn> for whatever reason
<sewn> eg. you cant share the same history file accross multiple shells
<sewn> on alpine this wasn't an issue...
<sewn> :q
<angle> make kiss 2
<fultilt> I suppose if busybox ash had supported Alt-., it would still be just as POSIX, but I wouldn't have been so quick to go back to bash.
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<sad_plan> sewn: just use oksh and call it a day
<sewn> iot has bugs
<sad_plan> has vi keys and vi buffer
<sad_plan> what bugs?
<sewn> remind me to lok into it later
<sad_plan> what about dash? or mksh?
<sewn> i like a shell by openbsd
<sad_plan> loksh?
<sewn> not by some niche distro or a shell with 0 interactive features
<sewn> and one thats actively maintained
<sad_plan> it is
<sewn> loksh uses meson
<sad_plan> maybe it does
<sewn> its a shell for crying out loud why would it need meson
<sad_plan> i have no idea
<sewn> i am an advocate of shell and i view this as bullshit
<sewn> s/shell/meson
<sad_plan> lol
<sewn> the only real reason they are using meson is just for the CFLAGS to add ncurses support
<sewn> which should be possible in regular makefile with hand-written ./configure
<sad_plan> a simple configure script wouldve sufficed
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<midfavila> sewn look at yash
<sewn> i hvae
<sewn> its really really cool but i dont need all the fancy fetaures
<midfavila> you could also look at uhhhh
<midfavila> there are programs that wrap ones thar read from stdon in readline
<midfavila> could use that with dash
<midfavila> you could also patch a shell to use linenoise
<midfavila> super small line editing library
<sewn> i just want to not worry about my shell mid
<midfavila> youre a kiss user
<sewn> im a kisser
<midfavila> a boykisser
<midfavila> :3
<sewn> no just a kisser
<midfavila> anyway all you do is worry about your shell ubder kiss smdh
<sewn> yeah because i like a shell that keeps my history yknow
<sewn> smh
* midfavila shrugs
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<sad_plan> sewn: create a wrapper and have all commands redirect to a file
<sewn> ew
<sad_plan> now you can use w/e shell
<sewn> yuck
<sad_plan> now you can even use rc
<sad_plan> yay
<sad_plan> midfavila: what shell did you use again? outside of rc ofc
<sewn> sad_plan: does it even have proper history
<sad_plan> i think some implementations does.
<sad_plan> take a look at this one sewn
<sad_plan> its the one oasis uses. and readme says it has history
<sewn> rc23>
<sad_plan> aswell as completion
<sad_plan> or rc23 if you will
<sewn> i like something maintained lel
<sad_plan> why does that even matter if its feature complete and no known bugs?
<sewn> no known bugs because no one uses it
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<sewn> unless oasis does
<sad_plan> oasis does
<sewn> ok nvm
<sewn> u win
<sad_plan> so mcf does, and me. possibly others. not sure about numbers
<midfavila> sad_plan oksh
<midfavila> sewn stop being an updooter
<midfavila> learn to cood and fix shit yourself
<midfavila> srsly
<sewn> whats a updooter
<midfavila> >no commits in past five minutes
<sewn> wat
<midfavila> u
<midfavila> = w=
<sewn> ur confusing
<midfavila> no u
<midfavila> anyway
<midfavila> i'd be more concerned about size and complexity of the code
<midfavila> not just how many people use it
<midfavila> look at xz
<midfavila> that ended up backdoored and how many people use it?
<midfavila> it's about like, userbase to size and complexity, not just userbase, and not just size
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<sad_plan> what midfavila said. while I like keeping packages up to date, i dont run a mission critical machine thats susceptable to attacks on a daily basis. so not having updates all the damn time is fine I suppose
<sad_plan> ive gotten less aggressive about it over time aswell
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<midfavila> man the reform charges so friggin fast
<midfavila> 8% to almost 100% in maybe 45min
<midfavila> that'll last like at least a good six to eight hours under sustained load
<sad_plan> thats pretty good. i think mine had probably couple hours even on basic load like browser and some music
<sad_plan> its terrible tbh
<sad_plan> its getting somewhat old though. its 6 years nos
<midfavila> get a reform :o
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<sad_plan> its tempting. but the price to performance isnt very appealing. i also saw theyre working on a slim version. which is more appealing to me. maybe later
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<midfavila> boss bought some toys for me to play with :3
<midfavila> building a server for the company
<midfavila> rockpro64 with an lsi 9240 and an SLC samsung ssd with a hitachi hard disk for bulk storage
<midfavila> gonna run openmediavault with nextcloud and odoo on it
<midfavila> should be able to consolidate all of the services that are contracted out
<midfavila> apparently i'm on track for a raise :OOOOOO
<midfavila> i've never gotten one of those before
<midfavila> i'm like a real IT man person goat thing now
<midfavila> very cool and computerpilled
<midfavila> might try to get the boss to buy me some tools
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<macewentoo> not having tab completion is probably more crippling than not having history. you can at least modify the shell prompt to save history manually if needed
<macewentoo> no tab completion in an interactive shell is just masochism
<sad_plan> good on you midfavila, about the promotion :D
<sad_plan> macewentoo: I agree. having no tab-completion is terrible tbh.
<midfavila> ughhhhhhhhhhh
<midfavila> i wish i had my workstation here
<midfavila> i might be able to set up a cross comp env on sdf but
<midfavila> i'd rather do it locally
<sad_plan> happy days. I got tabbed with hide tabs feature working. buut my window decoration borks. the focused color doesnt appear on the tabbed window. ffs
<sad_plan> what do you need to build midfavila?
<sad_plan> or cross compile rather
<sad_plan> wait, focused window decoration is always borked with tabbed...
<sad_plan> neat. if you apply the auto-hide for tabbed, as opposed to keyrelease + hide-tabs, but just change the number of clients to 9, you get the same result for less trouble
<midfavila> sad_plan the entire aarch rootfs
<midfavila> lmao
<sad_plan> I see
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<midfavila> hey by the way has illiliti been on recently?
<sad_plan> his on from time to time. and goes by ilt now
<midfavila> cool cook
<sad_plan> wmutils also does not work with tabbed. cant move windows around either. nor change border colors. this is somewhat annoying tbh
<midfavila> you might have to list the frame
<sad_plan> how do I do that? i know you can use pfw, but thats for windows afaik
<ilt> i'm here
<ilt> i got sick recently and i'm still recovering
<ilt> don't overwork guys
<sad_plan> im guessing you did ilt?
<ilt> yeah
<sad_plan> luckily I dont have a habbit of doing that. quite the opposite actually :p
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<sad_plan> midfavila: could you elaborate on the frames you mentioned? im guessing it has something to do with window id or something, as if I open tabbed, but nothing else, window decoration works