<midfavila>
i am still struggling with the whole "using a computer like a normal person" thing
<midfavila>
really not my gig
<midfavila>
anyway
<midfavila>
i wanted to see if anyone here knows the status of k and other future developments of kiss
<sad_plan>
build oassi already, and you dont have to
<sad_plan>
s/oassi/oasis
<sad_plan>
k been dead for years. phoebos works on his lua implementation from time to time iirc
<midfavila>
heck
<midfavila>
yeah that's what i figured
<midfavila>
kiss seems kind of vegetative compared to a few years ago
<sad_plan>
phoebos: C implenetation hasnt seen any commits since last year. I know there was a rust implementation aswell. ehawkvu made a implementation in lisp or something aswwell
<sad_plan>
think thats the more feature complete one to date
<midfavila>
yeah i saw that
<midfavila>
it's neat
<midfavila>
i'm just trying to think of ways to get back into programming
<midfavila>
kiss kind of provided an environment that incentivized writing my own stuff
<midfavila>
but not being able to run X seriously dampens a lot of my plans
<midfavila>
i guess i could get *really* good with curses
<midfavila>
that could be interesting actually
<sad_plan>
have you tried tinyx though? i know you said xorg is.. finnicky on the reform, but I figured maybe tinyx works
<midfavila>
tinyx might
<midfavila>
the default reform image uses xwayland with some hacks
<midfavila>
i did try to run standard X using the fbdev driver because i heard it was an issue with the etnaviv driver or something
<sad_plan>
it doesnt use upstream sources on debian?
<midfavila>
for most things it does
<sad_plan>
but no everything. I see
<midfavila>
yeah just a few things
<midfavila>
like for example you need to use out of tree kernel modules for some of the hardware
<midfavila>
they're trying to upstream them tho
<sad_plan>
I recall hearing about that
<midfavila>
ngl if tinyx runs that would be sweet
<sad_plan>
think it was in a video. unless you mentioned it yourself earlier
<sad_plan>
for sure
<sad_plan>
give it a go. hopefully it works
<midfavila>
one way or another i'm going to find a way to build on that old aarch64 image on github and get a reform rootfs up
<midfavila>
that's my project for the next bit
<midfavila>
i'm too used to kiss to use anything else lmao
<sad_plan>
sweet
<sad_plan>
I can relate. I hate using artix on my desktop, but honeslty, I use some things on it that would be cumbersome as hell on kiss to bother to maintain..
<midfavila>
oh my ghodddddddddddddddd
<midfavila>
debian's autotools are broken
<midfavila>
what the fuck
<sad_plan>
amazing
<midfavila>
unless this is another instance of them splitting essential runtime files into separate packages
<midfavila>
i bet you it is
<midfavila>
honestly fuck doobiedoo's packaging system
<midfavila>
i dont care how enterprise it is, its a pain in my ass
<sad_plan>
agree
<midfavila>
i can appreciate separating different things into different files
<midfavila>
e.g. so into -dev doc into -doc and so on
<sad_plan>
I kinda hate those foo-libs or foo-dev...
<midfavila>
but your meta package should pull in everything needed to start using it
<midfavila>
like if autotools needs a bunch of m4 libraries you should pull in -dev
<midfavila>
jfc
<sad_plan>
I get why they do it, but alot of times I would rather they not be split
<midfavila>
same
<midfavila>
and i mean tbqh unix just historically hasn't been designed for binary systems
<midfavila>
it's always been the case that you get source code
<midfavila>
otherwise there are too many differences even between versions of the same system
<midfavila>
[for a binary to run]
<midfavila>
man how do you fuck up your autotools package
<midfavila>
it's literally just a pile of shell and m4 libraries
<sad_plan>
I get that. I remember I thought to myself after not using artix for a while, and when I was going to install something I though to myself; what sourcery is this? no building? oh, wait..
<sad_plan>
just download my tarball instead, and you dont need autotools
<sad_plan>
ive just ran autotools beforehand
<midfavila>
honestly a lot of projects don't even need autotools in the first place...
<midfavila>
i've seen repos with like five source files and all the final makefile does is link them into a single ELF
<midfavila>
lots of programs have support for it like links
<midfavila>
even when they don't you still get cut and paste
<sad_plan>
convinient
<midfavila>
alright well i'm trusting you didn't fuck with the scripts to steal all my porn
<sad_plan>
I didnt touch anything :p its even in kiss-xorg now
<midfavila>
poggies
<midfavila>
:3
<sad_plan>
:D
<midfavila>
idk what the state of kiss is mainline but i'd love to start a little committee devoted to writing small KISS-style replacements for larger programs
<midfavila>
X to whatever as samurai is to ninja and so on
<sad_plan>
could be interesting
<midfavila>
well like for example
<midfavila>
not to humblebrag
<midfavila>
but for the .2 seconds i had apport working it was pretty slick
<midfavila>
and i feel like a <=500SLOC ANSI C client would be better than say
<midfavila>
curl
<midfavila>
in the default image
<sad_plan>
if it works with git, I would perhaps consider a switch. aswell as all other downloads I do on a regular basis ofc
<midfavila>
shit that's right you need libcurl for git
<midfavila>
uggggggh
<sad_plan>
yep
<midfavila>
i switched my kiss fork to purely tarballs years ago
<sad_plan>
I avoided git checkouts too, because they require internet. and I kinda hated that
<sad_plan>
I still use git regardless for other tasks though
<sad_plan>
so.. I still need libcurl
<midfavila>
yeah fair
<midfavila>
i saw a from-scratch git implementation by some AROS guys a few years ago
<midfavila>
i think they're still working on it
<midfavila>
it doesn't need curl but it's also pretty early on
<macewentoo>
heres my take on reimagining kiss. make all the bare minimum packages required to run a gui or no gui, eg x. use appimages for everything else, wine, firefox
<midfavila>
>appimage
<midfavila>
>on kiss
<midfavila>
JANNIES
<midfavila>
WE HAVE AN UBUNTUSHITTER
<macewentoo>
easy to get up and running, and no heckling with complex packages
<sad_plan>
macewentoo: just use oasis. no complex packages
<macewentoo>
use some imagination please. keep making things difficult for youself
<macewentoo>
its unnecessary to build Firefox from scratch
<macewentoo>
face it
<sad_plan>
hell, use my oakiss, best of both worlds
<sad_plan>
I dont use firefox
<midfavila>
macewentoo on kiss i don't use firefox
<midfavila>
i use a patched version of links2
<macewentoo>
sure, i mean for those who want to
<sad_plan>
I would like to use firefox, but I think its dependencies aswell as firefox itself is terrible to build
<macewentoo>
appimage isnt snap or flatpak. dunno what hes on about
<midfavila>
if i *strictly* need to use a website then i just run a debian netinst
<midfavila>
in qemu
<midfavila>
in the future i'd like to set it up so that i can X forward
<midfavila>
run firefox on the VM but display it on the host
<macewentoo>
jesus
<midfavila>
you underestimate my autism and the lengths i'll go to to maintain the purity of my hugbox OS
<macewentoo>
its a bit too extreme
<macewentoo>
purity is good but so is sanity
<midfavila>
you're talkjing to someone who put together a kiss rootfs that had no GNU software at all
<midfavila>
i'm kind of known for being insane
<midfavila>
dailied it for like three months
<macewentoo>
im not a fan of gnu software either
<sad_plan>
midfavila: so you used a pure clang/llvm?
<macewentoo>
but if you cant use software and get work done whats the point
<midfavila>
sad_plan no
<macewentoo>
the point of a computer is to help us compute, not to just exist
<midfavila>
tcc
<midfavila>
macewentoo incorrect
<sad_plan>
thought you didnt get everything running with tcc
<midfavila>
i own computers specifically so i can look at them
<midfavila>
sad_plan i got most stuff running
<midfavila>
it was gnu m4 that was the biggest challenge
<macewentoo>
thats fine for you. keep it up
<sad_plan>
cool. a gui aswell?
<midfavila>
i replaced it with quasar m4 which is an updated version of the m4 in software tools
<midfavila>
yep[
<sad_plan>
tinyx?
<midfavila>
i had the standard X distribution compiled or bootstrapped off another system
<midfavila>
ye
<sad_plan>
awesome
<midfavila>
tinyx plus twm and friends
<midfavila>
very comfy
<midfavila>
had a tiny emacs clone
<sad_plan>
so theres hope for cproc and tinyx aswell
<midfavila>
:3
<macewentoo>
you gonna end up like that temple os dude
<midfavila>
oh sick
<midfavila>
macewentoo yes
<midfavila>
that is the goal actually
<midfavila>
i wish i was 1% as talented as terry
<macewentoo>
its like the 90s where they idolize drugs and music but with operating systems
<midfavila>
also
<midfavila>
macewentoo i can get all of my work done using emacs and standard unix tools
<midfavila>
as long as i can get an emacs or similar and i have a posix environment i'm set
<midfavila>
even at work i just do everything in emacs
<midfavila>
my work desktop at the office boots directly into emacs
<midfavila>
:3
<midfavila>
the boss has no idea what kind of autism he's enabling by making me the only IT guy on premises
<sad_plan>
little does he now that one day, all the machines run kiss all of a sudden
<midfavila>
i'm not there
<midfavila>
*yet*
<midfavila>
but i am moving everything over to PINE64 hardware running plain debian
<sad_plan>
I see
<midfavila>
and replacing our pooprietary piece of shit machine with odoo+nextcloud and a dot matrix printer hooked up to a pinetab
<sad_plan>
dope
<macewentoo>
i got a pinephone, worst piece of junk i ever used, are pines other stuff any better
<midfavila>
yes
<midfavila>
if you got the standard pinephone it's going to be shite
<macewentoo>
not that im ever gonna trust them again
<midfavila>
i have a pinenote and it's sick
<midfavila>
only tablet i've ever enjoyed
<midfavila>
pinephone is mostly a tinker toy
<midfavila>
pinephone pro is production grade
<sad_plan>
I dont get why pine used such dated hardware when they released it tbh
<midfavila>
might have been limited by cost or software support
<sad_plan>
I like to belive that if they used somewhat better hardware, it mightve been more successfull
<macewentoo>
meh, i dont feel like trusting them. i read pro wasnt that much better
<sad_plan>
probably
<macewentoo>
the cost way higher
<midfavila>
remember that pinephone was also like
<midfavila>
their first real product
<sad_plan>
pro was somewhat better
<midfavila>
that really put them on the map
<midfavila>
prior to that they were super niche
<macewentoo>
so do any of you main the pro as a phone daily
<sad_plan>
what did they even do before the pinephone?
<midfavila>
SBCs
<sad_plan>
right
<midfavila>
macewentoo i use a 200$ samsar that i bought in cash
<sad_plan>
I dont have any pine products. but I was eying the pinephone pro for a while, but I sortof gave up. I would be better of with a android anyway, and just use termux or something
<midfavila>
i'm going to replace it with a uconsole
<midfavila>
because autism
<macewentoo>
stick with the android
<sad_plan>
thought you moved away from the idea of the uconsole mid
<midfavila>
i don't love the uconsole but it's the closest to my ideal
<sad_plan>
why not build a pi zero phone?
<midfavila>
add silicone gaskets to protect the internals, swap life for lifepo, and replace the standard LCD with an e-ink display and it's basically ideal
<midfavila>
because i want to get the risc-v version
<sad_plan>
I see
<sad_plan>
and the uconsole has a risc-v version?
<midfavila>
yes
<midfavila>
r01
<sad_plan>
didnt know that
<midfavila>
with cellular talk and text it's 189usd
<sad_plan>
cool
<midfavila>
well, talk/text/data
<midfavila>
put my unlimited sim in there with hostapd and similar and i'll have an entire network in my pocket
<midfavila>
i've heard the r01 runs on a set of 18650s for like 10+ hours under constant load too
<sad_plan>
neat
<midfavila>
yeah
<midfavila>
the main issue with it is the lack of a GPU and only having 1gb of ram
<midfavila>
but like
<midfavila>
that's the sort of environment kiss shines in
<sad_plan>
for terminal stuff I dont think that matters much tbh
<midfavila>
the lack of a gpu doesn't but it does limit the sort of conventional software you can run
<midfavila>
i think there's a framebuffer but no gpu so it's all software
<midfavila>
viewing a gif or jpg or something would be fine but anything more and you're out of luck
<sad_plan>
right
<midfavila>
still though if you're just gonna like
<midfavila>
chat via irc
<midfavila>
do some emails
<midfavila>
light programming
<midfavila>
text browsing
<midfavila>
etc
<midfavila>
uconsole is great
<sad_plan>
I suppose so
<midfavila>
my main gripes with it beyond what i mentioned above would be
<midfavila>
i guess the lack of a serial and/or db-9 serial connection either onboard or via expansion port
<midfavila>
s/serial/rj-45/
<sad_plan>
why does that matter?
<midfavila>
that'd mean you wouldn't need to carry around a laptop or a pile of dongles to get at uarts and stuff
<midfavila>
for serial
<sad_plan>
I see
<midfavila>
rj45 is just a nice to have
<sad_plan>
wont usb-C to rj45 work?
<sad_plan>
assuming the uconsole can do that ofc
<midfavila>
A-rj45but yeah probably
<midfavila>
my point is that you wanna be able to minimize dongles and stuff though
<sad_plan>
sure
<sad_plan>
cant help but feel like having to use dongles is now an apple thing, because of their macs, which has almost no I/O
<midfavila>
it's always been a problem for small computers
<midfavila>
but apple exaggerated the issue
<sad_plan>
they sure did
<sad_plan>
> carries a sleek minimalistic laptop. needs 4 dongles
<midfavila>
>carries a laptop thicker than a 20yo powerbook
<midfavila>
>gets stopped by TSA because they think it's a bomb
<sad_plan>
awesome
<midfavila>
waiting for that to happen when i visit the usa
<midfavila>
the midfavila experience
<midfavila>
"what the fuck is a uconsole"
<sad_plan>
as expected
<midfavila>
ngl i kind of want a hip holster for the uconsole lmao
<sad_plan>
lol
<midfavila>
drill some holes in the top for a big chunky directional antenna
<sad_plan>
cant help but thinking people would give you wierd looks if you sat on a bench with that thing typing away some code or something. or making a call
<sad_plan>
sure security would be called
<midfavila>
i've already been arrested for playing MUDs in class
<sad_plan>
s/sure/surely/
<midfavila>
i dont have any fuks left to give
<midfavila>
fucks*
<sad_plan>
whats MUDs?
<midfavila>
multi user dungeons
<sad_plan>
good one you. no fucks is best fucks
<midfavila>
text based mmorpgs
<sad_plan>
I see
<midfavila>
i'm a regular on cleftofdimensions.net
<midfavila>
telnet to 4354 for a good time
<midfavila>
:3
<sad_plan>
I dont have telnet
<midfavila>
wh
<midfavila>
do you not have inetutils?
<sad_plan>
no
<midfavila>
how do you function
<midfavila>
i would literally die without inetutils
<sad_plan>
perfectly fine
<midfavila>
although ngl i wanna write my own telnet/ftp/etc client
<midfavila>
inetutils is hge
<midfavila>
huge
<midfavila>
fuck
<midfavila>
i still haven't adjusted to this board
<sad_plan>
I dont really use much besides sbase/ubase stuff tbh
<sad_plan>
well, and a browser ofc
<midfavila>
my usual setup is like
<midfavila>
all of the stock X11 programs plus Emacs, Xmh, Xrn, Links2 with tabbed, ffmpeg, the inetutils, and dropbear
<midfavila>
anything i cant run in C i try to run in elisp and if that fails i just run it in virtualized doobien
<midfavila>
oh my god what the fuck where is the xfont package
<midfavila>
i have libxfont2 and -dev installed and it still won't detect it
<sad_plan>
I still cant get tabbed to work under tinyx. ive tried several times, and it just wont register my keys. maybe because I use sxhkd..
<sad_plan>
tinyx uses libXfont1
<sad_plan>
not 2
<midfavila>
sad_plan did you check xev
<GalaxyNova>
midfavila: inetutils are old
<midfavila>
galaxynova your mom is old
<midfavila>
anyway
<GalaxyNova>
use the new `ip` command!
<midfavila>
no
<midfavila>
i refuse
<GalaxyNova>
it's new therefore it's better
<midfavila>
anyway,
<midfavila>
tinyx doesn't use xkb as i'm sure you know
<midfavila>
so you have to manually set up your keymap for some modifiers
<midfavila>
like alt iirc
<sad_plan>
I think I did when I messed with it earlier
<sad_plan>
I can check again
<sad_plan>
midfavila: yeah no, the keyboard shortcuts dont work for me. which has been the case from the start with tinyx
<midfavila>
rip
<midfavila>
if i can get tinyx running i'll check things out
<midfavila>
i'll be shocked if it runs
<midfavila>
i think i'm missing some xorg macros
<sad_plan>
xev also reports the correct keys aswell. I dont get why it dont registrer tbh
<midfavila>
just patching some issues with define out rn to see if it'll even build
<midfavila>
hmm
<sad_plan>
but if you figure out why, that would be dope
<midfavila>
that sounds like an issue i had with xedity
<midfavila>
edit*
<midfavila>
xedit
<midfavila>
fuck
<midfavila>
i got it working back on the cf-21 but i can't recall how
<midfavila>
i think i posted it in here
solaare has joined #kisslinux
<sad_plan>
hm
<midfavila>
solaare how tough are ya
<midfavila>
solaarae*
<midfavila>
hmm
<midfavila>
made sure to install xutils-dev which apparently includes the xorg macros
<midfavila>
but i'm still getting odd errors with e.g GLYPHPADBYTES and IMAGE_WIDTH_SIZE or whatever
<sad_plan>
wierd
<midfavila>
yeah IMAGE_BYTE_ORDER was the other issue
<midfavila>
i'm going to keep fiddling with defines just to get it to build
<midfavila>
doubt it's going to work
<midfavila>
sounds like something to do with endianness
<midfavila>
although arm and x86 are both little iirc
<midfavila>
so who knows
<sad_plan>
huh, neat. i didnt know I could make surf and st in the same window with xembed
<sad_plan>
hm
<midfavila>
ye
<midfavila>
xembed is sick
<sad_plan>
never really played with it before. I know I used tabbed with surf and vimb before, but that was on xorg, not tinyx
<midfavila>
i'd love to write an application similar to dialog but using xaw and embed
<midfavila>
xembed*
<sad_plan>
having tabbed would probably make my workflow somewhat better. atleast for surf
<midfavila>
tabbed is nice
<sad_plan>
if only its keybindings worked :p
<midfavila>
BITMAP_BIT_ORDER is fucky too
<sad_plan>
sounds like you got alot of things to figure out :p
<midfavila>
well if arm and x86 do have the same endianness it should be fine assuming these are endianness checks
<sad_plan>
I wouldnt know
<midfavila>
was it xvesa or xfbdev that they revived, again?
<midfavila>
if it was xvesa that's a bummer
<sad_plan>
think it was xfbdev
<sad_plan>
xvesa is pure 32bit
<midfavila>
the bigger problem is that vesa is a bios extension
<midfavila>
\which means it's an x86 thing
<midfavila>
oh hey got it to build
<midfavila>
moment of truth
<sad_plan>
awesome
<midfavila>
OH SHIT
<midfavila>
i think it recognized a screen
<midfavila>
the bigger issue is that it couldnt open fixed
<midfavila>
which for tinyx is odd
<sad_plan>
hm
<sad_plan>
I think I found a solution for tabbed
<sad_plan>
ive managed to start a new tab this time atleast
<sad_plan>
I applied the keycodes patch
<midfavila>
sick
<sad_plan>
yep, that seemed to have done the trick actually. awesome
<midfavila>
OH FUCK
<midfavila>
I GOT IT
<midfavila>
i didnt expect that to work holy shit
<sad_plan>
awesome
<midfavila>
there's definitely some issues relating to those macros
<midfavila>
but that should be an easy fix
<midfavila>
hey sad_plan i need a favour
<midfavila>
can you find which include on your system or in tinyx's source define GLYPHPADBYTES and similar
<midfavila>
idk if it's internal to tinyx or if its from the standard x distrib
<sad_plan>
servermd.h in tinyx/include defines it atleast
<sad_plan>
mi/miglblt.c uses it
<sad_plan>
cant say I spot any of the xlibs that uses it
<midfavila>
yeah its internal
<midfavila>
there's some pretty good commenting
<sad_plan>
yep
<midfavila>
it's definitely all about endianness
<sad_plan>
is it?
<midfavila>
yes
<midfavila>
well
<midfavila>
paddingbytes isn't
<midfavila>
it's about space-time tradeoffs and memory alignment and shit
<midfavila>
okay i see
<midfavila>
there's no aarch def
<midfavila>
it seems
<midfavila>
should be an easy fix
<midfavila>
i like that they have a def for superh but not aarch lmao
<midfavila>
this code must be prehistoric
<sad_plan>
its not exacly new anymore :p
<midfavila>
yeah i extrapolated
<midfavila>
:p
<midfavila>
do you know if __arm32__ and similar are a libc thing?
<midfavila>
iirc __ is usually reserved for system use or something, right?
<sad_plan>
have no idea
<sad_plan>
havent gotten to that stage in C yet. im still figuring things out. been working in kings programming book lately
<midfavila>
sick
<midfavila>
i need to get back into that
<midfavila>
i finished most of knr
<midfavila>
looks like __.* is compiler defined
<midfavila>
so i should be able to just add || __aarch64__ or similar to the end of the def and call it a day
<midfavila>
i imagine the arm32 defaults would run fine on the arm64 chip
<midfavila>
albeit not at full capacity
<sad_plan>
you should. youre way in front of me anyway. but im moving slowly but surely forward. tinyx also has a implicit-int thingy I fixed last week. its probably a terrible fix, but the error went away
<midfavila>
a kiss-adjacent study club would be fun
<sad_plan>
how would we do that even?
<midfavila>
everyone involved could study like
<midfavila>
os dev and shit
<midfavila>
oh
<midfavila>
i mean
<midfavila>
sdf has a classroom system
<midfavila>
i can set it up there
<midfavila>
we can use irc and jitsi and shit
<midfavila>
everyone can vote on the topic we want to cover
<midfavila>
then we can spend a week or so looking for good materials
<midfavila>
argue for each example provided if we dont agree upfront
<midfavila>
then vote
<sad_plan>
im fine with irc. never really figured out what sdf even is tbqh. even with how much you mentioned it. the site isnt.. very specific about it either :p
<midfavila>
there are free classes on edx too
<midfavila>
sdf is a public unix system
<midfavila>
it's just a really big computer
<midfavila>
:p
<sad_plan>
I see
<midfavila>
you can use it for pretty much whatever
<midfavila>
the sysops host a bunch of services for members
<midfavila>
its my xmpp gateway and email server for example
<midfavila>
and my website host
<sad_plan>
dope
<midfavila>
ye
<midfavila>
its honestly a steal
<midfavila>
if you have 36usd crammed somewhere get an arpa membership
<midfavila>
one time payment
<midfavila>
they do DSL in the states and dialup/dialin service worldwide, too
<midfavila>
the latter was like, my only way of using the internet for a year and a half, lmao
<sad_plan>
arpa as in american rescue plan? :p
<midfavila>
nah
<midfavila>
its just their way of having user tiers
<midfavila>
also
<midfavila>
that little path worked
<midfavila>
patch even
<sad_plan>
awesome. good to see my terrible C skills does some good
<sad_plan>
ive recently started building with -Werror=implicit-function-decleration and some software is terrible. I was however amazed how few packages broke by this though
<sad_plan>
i think I got only 3 packages in total
<sad_plan>
I found a patch for 1, and fixed the 2 others. it felt good
<midfavila>
i want to build a fresh rootfs for aarch64 and i'd like to take over the repo
<midfavila>
worst case i start over but he was using a pinebook and idk if he did anything to accommodate it
<midfavila>
if he did i'd like to copy it
<midfavila>
alternatively if someone here has a pinebook and wants to help with an aarch rootfs (or really any similar device like an rpi or uconsole) could start work on getting some compatibility packages spun up
<sad_plan>
awesome. no he does not
<sad_plan>
you can probably submit a pr on github, but dunno if itll get accepted. no commits for 2 years or so now
<sewn>
why does kisslinux get the most productive and cute conversations when I'm not there
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<sewn>
does anyone know any good POSIX shells
<fultilt>
I don't, but I'm curious about what you think is lacking in the usual suspects like busybox or dash.
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<angle>
all I want is a cool POSIX shell with vim keys and key binds that run a program.
<sewn>
fultilt: im using busybox ash
<sewn>
and the history is bothering me, it's not saving at all.
<angle>
ksh makes you choose (I know it's more than just POSIX)
<angle>
sewn: does ash not have history??
<sewn>
it does, but its not re-reading
<sewn>
my shell history of months was all gone because KISS ash keeps clearing it
<sewn>
for whatever reason
<sewn>
eg. you cant share the same history file accross multiple shells
<sewn>
on alpine this wasn't an issue...
<sewn>
:q
<angle>
make kiss 2
<fultilt>
I suppose if busybox ash had supported Alt-., it would still be just as POSIX, but I wouldn't have been so quick to go back to bash.
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<sad_plan>
sewn: just use oksh and call it a day
<sewn>
iot has bugs
<sad_plan>
has vi keys and vi buffer
<sad_plan>
what bugs?
<sewn>
remind me to lok into it later
<sad_plan>
what about dash? or mksh?
<sewn>
i like a shell by openbsd
<sad_plan>
loksh?
<sewn>
not by some niche distro or a shell with 0 interactive features
<sewn>
and one thats actively maintained
<sad_plan>
it is
<sewn>
loksh uses meson
<sad_plan>
maybe it does
<sewn>
its a shell for crying out loud why would it need meson
<sad_plan>
i have no idea
<sewn>
i am an advocate of shell and i view this as bullshit
<sewn>
s/shell/meson
<sad_plan>
lol
<sewn>
the only real reason they are using meson is just for the CFLAGS to add ncurses support
<sewn>
which should be possible in regular makefile with hand-written ./configure
<sad_plan>
a simple configure script wouldve sufficed
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<midfavila>
sewn look at yash
<sewn>
i hvae
<sewn>
its really really cool but i dont need all the fancy fetaures
<midfavila>
you could also look at uhhhh
<midfavila>
there are programs that wrap ones thar read from stdon in readline
<midfavila>
could use that with dash
<midfavila>
you could also patch a shell to use linenoise
<midfavila>
super small line editing library
<sewn>
i just want to not worry about my shell mid
<midfavila>
youre a kiss user
<sewn>
im a kisser
<midfavila>
a boykisser
<midfavila>
:3
<sewn>
no just a kisser
<midfavila>
anyway all you do is worry about your shell ubder kiss smdh
<sewn>
yeah because i like a shell that keeps my history yknow
<sewn>
smh
* midfavila
shrugs
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<sad_plan>
sewn: create a wrapper and have all commands redirect to a file
<sewn>
ew
<sad_plan>
now you can use w/e shell
<sewn>
yuck
<sad_plan>
now you can even use rc
<sad_plan>
yay
<sad_plan>
midfavila: what shell did you use again? outside of rc ofc
<sad_plan>
its the one oasis uses. and readme says it has history
<sewn>
rc23>
<sad_plan>
aswell as completion
<sad_plan>
or rc23 if you will
<sewn>
i like something maintained lel
<sad_plan>
why does that even matter if its feature complete and no known bugs?
<sewn>
no known bugs because no one uses it
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<sewn>
unless oasis does
<sad_plan>
oasis does
<sewn>
ok nvm
<sewn>
u win
<sad_plan>
so mcf does, and me. possibly others. not sure about numbers
<midfavila>
sad_plan oksh
<midfavila>
sewn stop being an updooter
<midfavila>
learn to cood and fix shit yourself
<midfavila>
srsly
<sewn>
whats a updooter
<midfavila>
>no commits in past five minutes
<midfavila>
>DEPRECATED OBSOLETE UPDOOT TO THE LATEST FREEDESKTOP REPLACEMENT
<sewn>
wat
<midfavila>
u
<midfavila>
= w=
<sewn>
ur confusing
<midfavila>
no u
<midfavila>
anyway
<midfavila>
i'd be more concerned about size and complexity of the code
<midfavila>
not just how many people use it
<midfavila>
look at xz
<midfavila>
that ended up backdoored and how many people use it?
<midfavila>
it's about like, userbase to size and complexity, not just userbase, and not just size
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<sad_plan>
what midfavila said. while I like keeping packages up to date, i dont run a mission critical machine thats susceptable to attacks on a daily basis. so not having updates all the damn time is fine I suppose
<sad_plan>
ive gotten less aggressive about it over time aswell
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<midfavila>
man the reform charges so friggin fast
<midfavila>
8% to almost 100% in maybe 45min
<midfavila>
that'll last like at least a good six to eight hours under sustained load
<sad_plan>
thats pretty good. i think mine had probably couple hours even on basic load like browser and some music
<sad_plan>
its terrible tbh
<sad_plan>
its getting somewhat old though. its 6 years nos
<midfavila>
get a reform :o
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<sad_plan>
its tempting. but the price to performance isnt very appealing. i also saw theyre working on a slim version. which is more appealing to me. maybe later
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<midfavila>
boss bought some toys for me to play with :3
<midfavila>
building a server for the company
<midfavila>
rockpro64 with an lsi 9240 and an SLC samsung ssd with a hitachi hard disk for bulk storage
<midfavila>
gonna run openmediavault with nextcloud and odoo on it
<midfavila>
should be able to consolidate all of the services that are contracted out
<midfavila>
apparently i'm on track for a raise :OOOOOO
<midfavila>
i've never gotten one of those before
<midfavila>
i'm like a real IT man person goat thing now
<midfavila>
very cool and computerpilled
<midfavila>
might try to get the boss to buy me some tools
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<macewentoo>
not having tab completion is probably more crippling than not having history. you can at least modify the shell prompt to save history manually if needed
<macewentoo>
no tab completion in an interactive shell is just masochism
<sad_plan>
good on you midfavila, about the promotion :D
<sad_plan>
macewentoo: I agree. having no tab-completion is terrible tbh.
<midfavila>
ughhhhhhhhhhh
<midfavila>
i wish i had my workstation here
<midfavila>
i might be able to set up a cross comp env on sdf but
<midfavila>
i'd rather do it locally
<sad_plan>
happy days. I got tabbed with hide tabs feature working. buut my window decoration borks. the focused color doesnt appear on the tabbed window. ffs
<sad_plan>
what do you need to build midfavila?
<sad_plan>
or cross compile rather
<sad_plan>
wait, focused window decoration is always borked with tabbed...
<sad_plan>
neat. if you apply the auto-hide for tabbed, as opposed to keyrelease + hide-tabs, but just change the number of clients to 9, you get the same result for less trouble
<midfavila>
sad_plan the entire aarch rootfs
<midfavila>
lmao
<sad_plan>
I see
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<midfavila>
hey by the way has illiliti been on recently?
<sad_plan>
his on from time to time. and goes by ilt now
<midfavila>
cool cook
<sad_plan>
wmutils also does not work with tabbed. cant move windows around either. nor change border colors. this is somewhat annoying tbh
<midfavila>
you might have to list the frame
<sad_plan>
how do I do that? i know you can use pfw, but thats for windows afaik
<ilt>
i'm here
<ilt>
i got sick recently and i'm still recovering
<ilt>
don't overwork guys
<sad_plan>
im guessing you did ilt?
<ilt>
yeah
<sad_plan>
luckily I dont have a habbit of doing that. quite the opposite actually :p
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<sad_plan>
midfavila: could you elaborate on the frames you mentioned? im guessing it has something to do with window id or something, as if I open tabbed, but nothing else, window decoration works