ChanServ changed the topic of #kisslinux to: KISS Linux | https://k1sslinux.org | /msg zr for kisslinux/* cloaks | logs: https://k1sslinux.org/irc#2.0 | thing of the day: https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=HVzC6WZImGY
<midfavila> just download your music. smh.
<midfavila> fucking zoomers.
<acheam> nicotine+ doesnt work on kiss
<acheam> it needs gtk introspection
<acheam> so youd have to kiss fork the entire gtk stack
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<dilyn> just use cigarettes like everyone else smh
<midfavila> alcohol*
<midfavila> piracy is much, much worse for indust- er, individuals, than alcohol. as everyone knows.
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<phoebos[m]> wahey, ctrl-c.club finally has https
<phoebos[m]> also cool issue ya got there, dylan
<phoebos[m]> what needs to happen for the issue to be closed
<phoebos[m]> is something awful gonna happen to dilyn
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<midfavila-laptop> Thinkin' of writing a simple image viewer in lisp... doesn't seem like it'd be too hard, at least for JPEGs, since there's a really nice library that does all the heavy lifting.
<midfavila-laptop> actually, speaking of programs in lisp, have you packaged nyxt, acheam?
<midfavila-laptop> as much as I hate webshit and gtk3, I really want to try it
<acheam> it requires introspection
<acheam> same problem as nicotine+
<midfavila-laptop> Oh. That's lame.
<acheam> very much so
<acheam> all gtk bindings to other languages require it if I understand correctly
<midfavila-laptop> Ew...
<midfavila-laptop> Well, the answer to this is clearly to write a KISS browser.
<midfavila-laptop> just steal libweb from serenity or something and slap a GUI on top. idk
<midfavila-laptop> man, that's kind of depressing, though. i was all excited earlier today, thinking about how it would be super awesome if you could combine Nyxt with UXP
<midfavila-laptop> and slap a STLWRT gui on top
<midfavila-laptop> that's a browser I would actually enjoy using
<phoebos[m]> Sounds pretty widely-compatible
<phoebos[m]> also, lisp is nice
<phoebos[m]> go write our KISS browser in lisp, mid
<midfavila-laptop> once I actually understand anything about computers I will
<midfavila-laptop> until then you'll have to be satisfied with my poorly-written shell scripts
<phoebos[m]> looking forward to it
<midfavila-laptop> i unironically do intend to write a browser In The Future:tm:, though
<phoebos[m]> i tried making an irc client in c the other day
<midfavila-laptop> somewhere between Dillo and Netsurf, with a featureset similar to Links
<midfavila-laptop> oh?
<phoebos[m]> sockets are funky
<midfavila-laptop> i imagine so
<midfavila-laptop> i need to work through the rest of K&R, but it's almost midnight and I'm tired. ugh.
<midfavila-laptop> haven't even covered pointers yet
<midfavila-laptop> it's been on hold for the past few days...
<phoebos[m]> it worked! just, need to do some kind of forking so that I can read messages while also waiting for input
<phoebos[m]> I think a poll
<phoebos[m]> or a select
<midfavila-laptop> Very cool.
<midfavila-laptop> That's another thing I want to write...
<midfavila-laptop> gaaaaah, I need to start writing down my ideas
<phoebos[m]> Oof. Does that mean you can't use pointers, under your ~rule~
<midfavila-laptop> was implementing IRC hard? i've heard it's quite simple to get the core protocol working
<phoebos[m]> dw, this channel is your notebook
<midfavila-laptop> this channel is my blog
<phoebos[m]> very simple
<midfavila-laptop> prepare to be faced with irlposts
<midfavila-laptop> all day every day
<phoebos[m]> it makes sense, mostly
<midfavila-laptop> i would imagine
<phoebos[m]> IRC, that is
<phoebos[m]> Not you
<midfavila-laptop> i mean, IRC is just a way to fling ASCII at people
<midfavila-laptop> wow, rude
<midfavila-laptop> i'm at least coherent fifty percent of the time
<phoebos[m]> sure thing
<midfavila-laptop> >:c
<phoebos[m]> but yeah, without some kind of subprocess, my client only gets new messages if you hit enter
<phoebos[m]> :p
<midfavila> notabug wontfix
<phoebos[m]> > different nick gets me every time
midfavila is now known as MidFavila
<MidFavila> i'm like naruto
<phoebos[m]> you're everywhere
<MidFavila> i can make shadow clones
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<midFavila_factor> aw man, it cut off the nick
<midFavila_factor> well, that's enough of that.
midFavila_factor is now known as midfavila
<phoebos> two can play at that game
<midfavila> you can't fool me, phoebos
<midfavila> i see right through your tricks
<phoebos[m]> aww
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<midfavila> man, I'll tell you this, though
<midfavila> getting common lisp programs to run is fucking annoying
<midfavila> quicklisp is like CPAN
<midfavila> it has everything you *don't* need
<phoebos[m]> ugh
<phoebos[m]> saw you packaged sbcl
<midfavila> i did indeed
<phoebos[m]> looks nice
<midfavila> i might package a binary for it, as well
<midfavila> just to prevent the need to compile ecl, then sbcl, then sbcl with sbcl
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<phoebos[m]> mhm
<midfavila> ecl is so fucking slow
<midfavila> like, it makes sense why
<midfavila> given it's an *embedded* language
<midfavila> but still
<phoebos[m]> cool how sbcl can interpret or compile
<midfavila> yeah, it's nifty
<midfavila> compiled program performance is about on-par with C
<phoebos[m]> does ecl invoke your c compiler
<midfavila> i don't actually know
<phoebos[m]> coolio
<midfavila> i only used ecl for long enough to build sbcl
<phoebos[m]> lel
* midfavila shrugs
<midfavila> most stuff expects sbcl or GNU CLISP
<midfavila> and sbcl is faster
<midfavila> so
<phoebos[m]> would be surprised if ecl also included a full ass c compiler tbf
<phoebos[m]> well, not necessarily full ass
<phoebos[m]> i guess they could compile your lisp to a subset of c
<midfavila> looks like that's what they do
<midfavila> hm.
<midfavila> i almost want to write my daily-use software in C, over LISP, just because UNIX systems already have a C toolchain...
<phoebos[m]> ecl > Compiles Lisp also with any C/C++ compiler
<phoebos[m]> makes it sound like they've also got one
<phoebos[m]> But that's neat
<midfavila> i might just use common lisp like how people use python
<midfavila> as a sort of general-purpose scripting language, or w/e
<phoebos[m]> i'm now interested enough in lisp that i want to learn so much as to understand the buzz words people use about it
<midfavila> lisp doesn't seem like a very buzzwordy environment
<midfavila> it's kind of boring, actually :p
<phoebos[m]> like wtf does it mean about adding features to the language on-the-fly
<phoebos[m]> no sure
<midfavila> oh, that. well, as far as I understand it, it's because lisp treats code and data as the same thing
<midfavila> so you can just... redefine elements of the language as you choose
<phoebos[m]> but it's a different approach to programming from the c family
<midfavila> SICP provides an example of redefining the IF conditional function
<midfavila> oh, 100%
<midfavila> C and LISP have absolutely nothing in common
<midfavila> beyond they're both programming languages
<phoebos[m]> lisp is cool
<midfavila> i want to learn C, LISP and FORTH, since they're all exceptionally different from each other and cover major paradigms quite nicely
<phoebos[m]> nice
<phoebos[m]> anyway, i need to sleep
<midfavila> fair
<midfavila> see you later then
<phoebos[m]> argh i want to learn all these languages
<phoebos[m]> also, my logs have the freenode stuff too now
<phoebos[m]> snap, acheam
<phoebos[m]> \o
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<acheam> phoebos[m]: bruh mine have had them since yesterday
<acheam> get with the program jeez
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<dilyn> phoebos: nothing bad is gonna happen to me :v I'll just go back to having too many projects and putzing around
<dilyn> with any luck I'll have a new job after tomorrow tho
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<acheam> congrats
<acheam> doing what?
<acheam> well maybe premature
<acheam> good luck
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<dilyn> IoT stuff. It sounds very cool
<dilyn> tyty. this'll be the last of five interviews, hopefully (:
<schillingklaus> which interviews?
<schillingklaus> dilyn interviews dylan?
<acheam> we need a docudrama expose on the life and death of dilyn corner
<acheam> from his humble baristian beginnings, to his prime days leading KISS, and his fall from grace into IoT
<acheam> the people deserve to know the truth
<dilyn> maybe one day :)
<dilyn> shillingklaus: new job! switching industries, hopefully
<dilyn> I imagine it will eat up more of my work-hours than my current job does :X
<schillingklaus> as long as the new job is not vice president of RedHat...
<testuser[m]1> Hi
<testuser[m]1> middavila try badwolf
<testuser[m]1> midfavila
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<schillingklaus> can badwolf be operated with the keyboard instead of an enervating clicking mania?
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<testuser[m]1> It has krybindings
<testuser[m]1> Check the manpage
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<Sweets> .
<Sweets> calling all gamers
<Sweets> need help making a decision on window managers. In a hypothetical world where y'all weren't sane people and used manual tiling WMs, would you prefer one that sizes windows based on grid coordinates, or based on screen percentages?
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<Erus_Iluvatar> aaand he's gone
<Erus_Iluvatar> the answer would have been screen percentages
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<midfavila> oh
<midfavila> yeah, screen coords
<midfavila> considering I use a manual tiling wm
<midfavila> lmao
<midfavila> testuser[m]1 I'm not willing to use Badwolf. I tried it when it first came out and wasn't that impressed
<testuser[m]1> Why ?
<midfavila> more like "why would I be impressed?"
<midfavila> it's gtk3 and webkit, which immediately presents a gargantuan hurdle, but even ignoring that - it didn't apply GTK themes to elements inside pages, the JS disable button is a meh feature that can be replicated in any browser just by... disabling JS... and beyond that, it didn't seem to have any neat gimmicks.
<midfavila> pale moon has more features, doesn't have to deal with webkit or gtk3, and it's more efficient
* midfavila shrugs
<testuser[m]1> Hmm
<midfavila> ultimately it's the same problem I have with most webkit browsers
<midfavila> they're webkit browsers.
<midfavila> the only reason I'm interested in nyxt is because it's more of a lisp runtime environment that happens to have access to browser engines
<testuser[m]1> midweb when
<midfavila> when I learn enough C, Scheme or LISP to program competently
<midfavila> "midweb - our only feature is a lack of features!"
<midfavila> perfect.
<testuser[m]1> Man i just want a browser that can do chromium's force dark-mode on all sites
<testuser[m]1> Dark reader is super slow
<midfavila> pale moon can do that
<midfavila> :^)
<testuser[m]1> How ?
<midfavila> there's a plugin that overwrites the site's color scheme to be in line with a "dark mode"
<testuser[m]1> Link
<testuser[m]1> Or is it part of palemoon?
<midfavila> it's on the official site
<midfavila> i'm about to go make breakfast, so
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<midfavila-laptop> if you wanted to be really big-brain though, you'd just use stylem
<acheam> testuser[m]1: dark reader isnt that bad if implemented right
<acheam> depends on how the browser loads extensions, ive heard its really good on opera
<acheam> but obvs I'm never going to use opera
* midfavila-laptop mourns the death of Presto
<midfavila-laptop> they could have open sourced it!
<acheam> its a real shame
<omanom> lmao and let plebians like us enjoy it?
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<acheam> its gawk specific, but cool nonetheless
<dilyn> awk is the new sh
<acheam> not applicable to us, but interesting
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<phoebos[m]> signify is cool
<phoebos[m]> it's just a shame that everyone uses pgp
<konimex> hear hear
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<nerditup> midfavila: do you ever use an IRC bouncer? or do you just log into from multiple devices separately?
<midfavila> the latter
<midfavila> bouncer is in the future though
<nerditup> I'd be curious to know what bouncer you prefer
<nerditup> I very much dislike ZNC
<nerditup> but it's what I use right now
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<omanom> nerditup https://git.causal.agency/pounce/about/ pounce was pretty easy to set up, although right now i use TheLounge (hosted on a vps) as a bouncer and web client
<omanom> pounce is in community btw
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<nerditup> oh nice, I didn't know about pounce
<nerditup> looks pretty minimal: https://github.com/kiss-community/community/tree/main/community/pounce (for the lazy, me)
<nerditup> > As a former znc(1) user, I was dissatisfied with the multi-client experience it offered.
<nerditup> this developer gets me
<nerditup> thanks for the tip omanom
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<phoebos[m]> pounce is good
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<acheam> I second pounce
<acheam> typing at you through it right now
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<acheam> here are two fun little games:
<acheam> kiss o | wc -l
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<testuser[m]1> Thats 1
<acheam> I was still drafting the second sorry
<acheam> find -maxdepth 1 -name '\.*' | head -n -1 | wc -l
<acheam> I get 59 for kiss o, and 7 for the dotfiles
<acheam> actually 5 for dotfiles
<omanom> 71, 43
<acheam> Jesus, 43?
<omanom> i ahve a bunch of .xorgrdp.log files that are cluttering things up look slike
<acheam> ah
<ang> 57, 9
<ang> I have most of my stuff in .config
<ang> you could have done `set -- .[!.]*; echo $#` instead of find
<ang> smh
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<nerditup> pure POSIX shell only!
<nerditup> echo > printf :)
<ang> echo is posix, you just shouldn't use it with options or variables which might start with a dash, because implementations vary wildly
<midfavila> printf is superior to echo because echo can have undefined behavior
<midfavila> iirc the classic example is that gnu echo freaks out if you tell it to echo something that starts with a dash
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<ang> it just takes it as an option, like any other utility would
<midfavila> if you include it in quotes, it still has problems. that's the issue.
<nerditup> I figured printf is a shell builtin and echo isn't, I guess I am mistaken
<midfavila> so like, suckless echo can handle "-h", but gnu echo can't
<midfavila> if you ever want to check, nerditup, you can always use which
<ang> ls "-l", try that
<ang> that's just normal behaviour
<ang> depends on shell, nerditup
<ang> oksh has echo build in, but not printf
<ang> you want to use type, not which
<kimerus> Hey guys
<kimerus> what do you use for pdf reader?
<kimerus> just zathura?
<kimerus> i looking for zathura options
<kimerus> alternatives if exist
<kimerus> minal and lighweight
<ang> I use the very lightweight firefox
<kimerus> lol
<noocsharp> i believe mupdf is lighterweight than zathura
<noocsharp> but i use zathura
<kimerus> yeah i see it i thinking in do a package of mupdf
<noocsharp> but the nice thing is zathura can deal with djvu or cb or whatever you want basically
<kimerus> Yeah, but i just use for pdf only
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<noocsharp> yeah, then mupdf is my recommendation
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<acheam> zathura can use either mupdf or poppler
<acheam> mupdf has more dependencies which is why I dont use it
<kimerus> Yeah
<kimerus> I see it
<kimerus> Same depends basically but with some extras
<kimerus> Like glu
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<dilyn> *sigh* http://0x0.st/-9RY.txt
<Erus_Iluvatar> kimerus: same as ang here, why install a dedicated PDF reader when you already have one bundled with your browser
<kimerus> Good question
<acheam> dilyn: oof
<acheam> because not all of use browsers with a bundled PDF reader :)
<kimerus> Sometimes i just need zathura or some pdf in side
<kimerus> I use firefox in case
<kimerus> But is for just not know a better privacy option
<Erus_Iluvatar> acheam: it's been a long time since I looked at alternative browsers, which one are you using ?
<acheam> chorizo
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<kimerus> Never heard about it
<kimerus> Good privacy option?
<Erus_Iluvatar> on the one hand, it's description sounds nice to me. On the other one, it's yet another webkit-based browser :/
<kimerus> What the problem with webkit?
<Erus_Iluvatar> it's everywhere
<kimerus> Yeah
<kimerus> But other option
<kimerus> Qtwebengine
<Erus_Iluvatar> so webdevs stop testing with other rendering engines
<Erus_Iluvatar> and we are back to the "Designed for IE" days :/
<Erus_Iluvatar> with a _much_ better replacement for IE
<kimerus> And what i read about qtweb is prettt buggy in privacy
<Erus_Iluvatar> so sad firefox engine can't easily be ripped of the warts
<Erus_Iluvatar> and that opera never open sourced it's engine when they dropped Presto :/
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<claudia> I have found jfbview, a framebuffer pdfviewer which is low in dependecies. https://github.com/jichu4n/jfbview
<acheam> Erus_Iluvatar: I think WebKit is reasonably unique
<acheam> webengine was forked what, 8 years ago?
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<acheam> there's only one major WebKit browser, safari
<kimerus> What extensios chorizo support?
<Erus_Iluvatar> acheam: is chrom{e,ium}'s Blink that far of of WebKit these days ?
<GalaxyNova> chromium is just wayyyy faster than anything else I tried
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<acheam> kimerus: WebKit extensions
<acheam> and user scripts/styles
<claudia02> new wlroots 0.14.0 is out. They seem to depend on libseat now and removed the direct backend.(sgid on input?) :(
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<claudia02> kimerus: there are 2 adlock extensions for webkit.
<midfavila> real chads use DNS to black-hole undesirables
<dilyn> ack noooo
<dilyn> now I *have* to fiddle with my seat management? smh
<midfavila> >uses kiss
<midfavila> >complains about having to fiddle
<midfavila> s m h my head
<dilyn> I just want to sleep :'(
<midfavila> dew it tomorrow then, nerd
<claudia02> dilyn: libseat just worked when I tried it. Actually no fiddling rquiered.
<kimerus> claudia02: you mean weyadblock?(dont know how to text this fucking name)
<dilyn> but muh bleeding edge
<dilyn> claudia02: I imagine it isn't hard, I just don't wanaaaaaaaa
<midfavila> in unrelated news, I have hacked together another criminally-formatted program
<midfavila> surprisingly, it works
<claudia02> kimerus: yes wyeb(adblock) and blockit(rust)
<dilyn> allign your comments, you monster
<midfavila> yes, I know
<claudia02> Going after this commit https://github.com/swaywm/wlroots/pull/2839 sourced their seat managment out to libseat. Because they dont want to deal with it or so.
<midfavila> dilyn what would you say if I named my variables and functions using non-printing characters
<midfavila> would that improve my formatting
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<dilyn> code in emojis. welcome to the 21st century
* midfavila vomits
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<midfavila> fr though, if you write programs using emoji, you deserve to be immolated.
<midfavila> just, you know, so everyone knows. that's on the record now.
* Erus_Iluvatar would love to see "bool my_🎸_gently_wheeps = True ; while(my_🎸_gently_wheeps) { foo }"
* midfavila gets the shotgun, takes Erus out back
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<Erus_Iluvatar> I mean when you already have UTF-8 encoding for your source
<Erus_Iluvatar> might as well have fun with it
<midfavila> 1) no
<midfavila> 2) ASCII should be used if UTF-8 isn't needed
<Erus_Iluvatar> Yup, but as soon as UTF-8 _is_ needed, everything goes
<midfavila> disagree
<GalaxyNova> 😀
<Erus_Iluvatar> On the one hand, I can't find a good reason to have a source as anything other than ASCII
<Erus_Iluvatar> but on the other, once you have picked your poison, why not abuse it ?
<GalaxyNova> what about the emojis
<acheam> code should handle utf8 but be written in ascii
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<acheam> that being said, the document should be encoded as utf8
<claudia> name your variables just dilyn1 dilyn2 dilyn3
<acheam> for people using foreign language comments, etc
<acheam> IMO
<Erus_Iluvatar> yeah, getting russian to fit in ASCII will not work :P
<dilyn> russian, where everything is a capital letter
<midfavila> is that why russian sounds so angry
<midfavila> :thinking:
<midfavila> perpetual screaming
<Erus_Iluvatar> what ? no
<Erus_Iluvatar> Wait, yeah looking at the letters most look quite similar as upper or lower case
<dilyn> typed russian was always capital, I thought?
<dilyn> handwritten it's all cursive. very painful.
<GalaxyNova> all letters are equal
<Erus_Iluvatar> dilyn: AIUI no, look at Б and б
<Erus_Iluvatar> The first it the uppercase for B
<dilyn> HM
<Erus_Iluvatar> the other is for lowercase b
<dilyn> i was mislead
<Erus_Iluvatar> but yeah, look at most letters : Лл, Мм, Нн, Оо, etc...
<Erus_Iluvatar> there _is_ a difference, but it's easy to overlook
<Erus_Iluvatar> GalaxyNova: letters are communist then ? :D
<GalaxyNova> exactly xD
<midfavila> �
<midfavila> this is the only letter in russian, obviously
<midfavila> perfectly equal in all ways
<midfavila> a true komrad's script.
<midfavila> some words are just more equal than others.
* midfavila nods
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<riteo> hiiiii!
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<riteo> do you guys think that storing relatively long strings into shell variables for scripting is a bad thing?
<kernelc_> illiliti: latest version of tinyramfs's luks.init hook doesn't work for me, I got error "Device does not exist or access denied."
<kernelc_> Version from commit cab221b1c92867aa12267aa3bdffad002364e6d4, and modified https://0x0.st/-9hS.diff works
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<illiliti> kernelc_: the error was caused due to `--`, right?
<kernelc_> illiliti: just removing '--' didn't helped :(
<kernelc_> I don't know what is causing it, including only one of each of delated in diff lines caused crash too
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<acheam> why is gnugrep called gnugrep, but patch, less, etc just called patch, less in community
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<midfavila> probably because there are no other patches or lesses
<midfavila> but I think gnu tools should be labelled as such
<illiliti> because kiss didn't have alternatives system at that moment
<midfavila> hmm. i wonder how hard writing a pager would be. can't be... *that* hard.
<midfavila> famous last words