<acheam>
then its not *that* much off from the tarball
<midfavila-laptop>
ugh. there's a soundpack for C: DDA that I want to package, but it's hosted on fucking... drive.
<midfavila-laptop>
there are so many problems here. i literally can't even rn
<acheam>
mirror it somewhere?
<acheam>
project idea: nitter-like thing for gdrive
<acheam>
just neeeds to work enough to download files, and view content of documents
<midfavila-laptop>
only system I can mirror it on would be SDF, but I'd have to actually like
<midfavila-laptop>
get up, and go to my main PC
<midfavila-laptop>
because my laptop hasn't got a JS browser
<midfavila-laptop>
and I can't create a new git repo without said browser
<midfavila-laptop>
thanks, gitea
<acheam>
lol imagine using such a shitty git host
<acheam>
bask in the envy of glorious sr.ht users
<midfavila-laptop>
gonna pass on the devaultpill
<midfavila-laptop>
thanks
<acheam>
swallow it, mid
<midfavila-laptop>
i'm not a swallower
<midfavila-laptop>
sorry, acheam
<acheam>
hmm, that derails some of my future plans for you
<midfavila-laptop>
uwu
<riteo>
sr.ht is really great
<riteo>
I would feel bad using it for free though, so I'll wait until I can actually afford it
<acheam>
no
<acheam>
sr.ht isn't intended to price anyone out
<acheam>
if you can't afford it, just send drew an email, and you'll be allowed to use it for free
<riteo>
I mean
<riteo>
it's not like we're poor or something
<riteo>
it's my parents who wouldn't allow it
<riteo>
yet
<acheam>
you should start saving independently
<riteo>
saving what? I still don't have a job and my parents won't let me spend the money that my relatives gift to me
<midfavila-laptop>
tell your parents to stop being stingy cunts and to respect your rights a little more
<midfavila-laptop>
they don't own your property.
<riteo>
mh
<riteo>
I should try going that route
<midfavila-laptop>
i would recommend being slightly more polite about it if you do
<riteo>
yeah lol
<riteo>
also because they said that they wanted to give me a small "pay" or however it's called in english
<riteo>
I mean, it'd be ~3€ in total per month, that's really low for having a minimum of a freedom-respecting web experience
<riteo>
I'll bring that up and we'll see, thanks for reminding me that that's an option
<midfavila-laptop>
i would just approach them and be like
<midfavila-laptop>
"Hey, I've been teaching myself more about computer programming and stuff, and there are some things I need to work with my friends online... it's not very expensive, and it would help me learn useful skills. Could we work something out?"
* midfavila-laptop
shrugs
<riteo>
I mean, I had to beg them for a domain and an email service
<midfavila-laptop>
sure, but do they understand why you're asking?
<riteo>
ehh
<riteo>
sort of
<midfavila-laptop>
if you approached them with muh freedom rhetoric, they... probably don't care much about it
<riteo>
my mom was like "all right, 1€ isn't *that* much, but why are you paying for email?"
<riteo>
yeah
<midfavila-laptop>
now, if you explained that "I'm looking to learn more about how computer networking works, and to facilitate that I'd like funding for my own email server. Not only will it let me be more independent, but I'll be learning useful skills that will help me find a job in the future"
<midfavila-laptop>
that sounds a lot better than "but google SPIES on me!!!"
<riteo>
oh wow you're right
<midfavila-laptop>
i know, shocking
<midfavila-laptop>
controversial statements only in #kisslinux
<riteo>
thanks #kisslinux
<riteo>
I mean, that implies that i'd be buying a VPS, I'd be more than glad to only have a custom domain for now, but source hut would be my next objective probably
<riteo>
If I remind them of that montly pay"
<riteo>
I pressed enter by accident
<midfavila-laptop>
well, if you can convince your parents to pay for a VPS instead of sourcehut, email, etc,
<riteo>
oh right
<midfavila-laptop>
you could have source control, email, and whatever else
<midfavila-laptop>
probably for about the same price
<riteo>
eeh, I'd have to put something too, but it would be doable
<midfavila-laptop>
well, sure, but then you're learning
<midfavila-laptop>
:P
<riteo>
like, it would be 3€ plus that shitton for a privacy respecting domain, but if I get that monthly "pay" and I bring up the "job experience" or whatever topic I think I might seriously get it
<midfavila-laptop>
if nothing else you at least display maturity
<midfavila-laptop>
and you can always set up reverse DNS or whatever
<riteo>
wait why
<midfavila-laptop>
well, then you can just run stuff on your local machine
<midfavila-laptop>
i have a friend who does that
<riteo>
did you mean dynamic dns?
<midfavila-laptop>
oh, right
<midfavila-laptop>
dynamic
* midfavila-laptop
facedesks
<riteo>
no worries
<riteo>
I mean, I got a tinkerboard already hooked up in my local network
<riteo>
I might actually set it up properly and see how it goes
<midfavila-laptop>
you could do that, too
<midfavila-laptop>
wire up a disk drive and call it a day
<riteo>
oh it has already a disk drive
<riteo>
three
<riteo>
it's a small NAS I made
<midfavila-laptop>
Nice.
<riteo>
it's literally in a shoebox
<midfavila-laptop>
i'll probably have to build a NAS once I move into my buddy's place...
<riteo>
it's made of old computer parts, 3 hdds, a tinkerboard and way too much electrical tape
<midfavila-laptop>
he and a few other friends there want a house server
<midfavila-laptop>
oh god
<midfavila-laptop>
that sounds...
<riteo>
yes
<midfavila-laptop>
yeah.
<riteo>
it still hasn't catched fire
<riteo>
I call that a win
<midfavila-laptop>
i just use my router for most stuff
<midfavila-laptop>
it's beefy enough to compete with the rasp pi and stuff
<dilyn>
imagine getting an allowance
<dilyn>
:'(
<midfavila-laptop>
dilyn go back to wage cuckin'
<riteo>
oh that's how it's called
<midfavila-laptop>
then you get your allowance
<riteo>
I don't have one either
<dilyn>
kekw
<dilyn>
cries in poverty
<midfavila-laptop>
wagie wagie
<midfavila-laptop>
back in cagie
<dilyn>
i have an interview thursday and it's a technical one. makes me heckin nervous
<dilyn>
without this job I will continue being a wagie :v
<midfavila-laptop>
what kind of position?
<dilyn>
IoT
<riteo>
oh you'll make it
* midfavila-laptop
vomits
<riteo>
oh no mid
<midfavila-laptop>
you disappoint me, dilyn
<riteo>
mid money's money
<dilyn>
double my salary, I'll do anything you want
<midfavila-laptop>
enjoy working for microshit, corporate S H I L L
<dilyn>
IoT? Hell yeah
<dilyn>
it ain't with m$ :P
<midfavila-laptop>
i'll be over here with my smug sense of moral superiority
<midfavila-laptop>
enjoying my soapbox
<dilyn>
gz
<acheam>
what kind of technical things do they have you do?
<riteo>
guys have you tried hosting your own email server locally?
<dilyn>
dont' do it locally
<acheam>
package some random piece of MIT licensed software for ARM? lol
<dilyn>
you'll get blacklisted faster than you can 'but I'm not spam'
<dilyn>
acheam: it's more full-stack than anything else
<midfavila-laptop>
VPSes get blacklisted too, you know
<dilyn>
not in the sense of programming, but implementing and supporting software across various embedded hardware devices
<riteo>
I know that it isn't a fair comparison, since here ISPs AFAICT are way more tolerant, but I think that'll be my only choice for now I guess if I want to have a public facing server
<dilyn>
VPSes don't get *immediately* blacklisted tho
<dilyn>
that's the key
<acheam>
well that depends
<midfavila-laptop>
riteo it's google and stuff we're talking about
<midfavila-laptop>
gmail has a whitelist, for example
<midfavila-laptop>
they don't allow unusual traffic
<acheam>
sometimes entire ip ranges of datacenters get blacklisted
<midfavila-laptop>
and since everyone uses gmail...
<midfavila-laptop>
yeah
<acheam>
and maybe the person who had the IP before you was a dick
<midfavila-laptop>
i just stick all my IRL stuff in protonmail
<acheam>
ew
<riteo>
probably gmail blocks my posteo email too, soo...
<midfavila-laptop>
look, acheam
<midfavila-laptop>
cock.li isn't an acceptable email to give to my social worker
<acheam>
would not have taken you for a protonmail user
<acheam>
why not?
<dilyn>
hosting email is pretty straightforward, but reliability is going to be your biggest concern. you could bounce it through someone so that if your server goes down, you still get the mails
<midfavila-laptop>
...because!
<dilyn>
that's currently our biggest problem. if the server gets down, the emails just vanish
<riteo>
mid... A protonmail user?
<riteo>
that's quite a twist
<midfavila-laptop>
any competent postmaster should have it set up so that outbound mail isn't sent if the recepient doesn't acknowledge
<midfavila-laptop>
who, I assume, would send it later
<midfavila-laptop>
unless users are more braindead that I thought
<dilyn>
right but mid, alerts are useless if they can't contact you otherwise. or it's an unattended box
<midfavila-laptop>
...are we talking about the same thing?
<dilyn>
the sender almost never saves emails to send later in cases where the server is unreachable
<riteo>
it's time
<dilyn>
only if *you* can't access the network will your machine attempt to resend, sometimes
<midfavila-laptop>
...every piece of mail software I've used saves a copy of outbound mail under drafts.
<dilyn>
but like, if I turned off my VPS and used gmail to email myself, I'd never get it.
<riteo>
I have to switch to my flaky mobile connection, get ready
<dilyn>
sure, but they won't just automatically resend it in every case.
riteo has quit [Quit: epic device switch moment]
<midfavila-laptop>
dilyn so then resend it manually?
<midfavila-laptop>
like, are people not capable of doing that? or what?
<midfavila-laptop>
I don't get it.
<dilyn>
... but if the box is UNATTENDED
riteo has joined #kisslinux
<dilyn>
or automated in someway
<dilyn>
you'll never get it. because they wont'
<riteo>
here I am, more powerful than ever
<dilyn>
:o overflowing with power
<riteo>
yes
<midfavila-laptop>
...I'm still not sure we're talking about the same thing. The sender will be notified and should attempt delivery later. Even if it takes them a few days to realize it wasn't sent
<riteo>
my "timed out" powers shall engage
<riteo>
didn't the sender know when mail didn't get to the recipient?
<midfavila-laptop>
man that reminds me of the time I tried to set up a radio link through the local ARC
<midfavila-laptop>
that was flaky as shit
<midfavila-laptop>
...also hilariously slow. but it was enough to access SDF.
<midfavila-laptop>
...which was probably illegal, now that I think about it...
<midfavila-laptop>
stupid industry canada, saying I can't use encryption on amateur frequencies.
<riteo>
nothing is illegal if they don't find you
<riteo>
imagine getting a fine for accessing the SDF over radio
<midfavila-laptop>
it's pretty easy to triangulate illegal radio broadcasts.
<midfavila-laptop>
and I mean, it's more like "using ssh over radio"
<midfavila-laptop>
can't use anything that requires TLS/SSL.
<riteo>
how is it different from a proxy if it still connects to the web?
<riteo>
that sounds dumb
<riteo>
isn't like wi-fi radio?
<midfavila-laptop>
oh, not in this context
<riteo>
why should other frequencies be illegal?
<midfavila-laptop>
because different ranges of frequency are assigned different purposes
<midfavila-laptop>
and during the cold war I guess the soviets used amateur bands for transmissions, or something
<acheam>
how do they know you're not just transmitting garbage?
<acheam>
like, how could they prove its encrypted
<riteo>
oh, you mean like polluding the frequencies
<riteo>
I get it
<midfavila-laptop>
no no
<midfavila-laptop>
it's flat out illegal
<riteo>
yes I got it
<riteo>
but I see why
<midfavila-laptop>
and I imagine they would be able to tell based on specific patterns in the bitstream
<midfavila-laptop>
i actually need to get my license and stuff...
<midfavila-laptop>
i've wanted to join ARES for a while.
<midfavila-laptop>
then I can scream about systemd over the air
<acheam>
i'd pay to see that
<riteo>
that sounds very cool
<midfavila-laptop>
ARES is nifty
<midfavila-laptop>
it's a group of volunteer corps who mobilize in the event of natural disasters to provide communications infrastructure to the military, medical staff, fire control, etc
<riteo>
screaming over the air without voice
<midfavila-laptop>
riteo that's just using a high wattage to transmit morse
<riteo>
oh cool I guess
<riteo>
yes
<riteo>
I'm waiting for the doomsday preppers tinfoil hatted group
<midfavila-laptop>
most preppers are already licensed
<riteo>
IIRC there's a project of making a more mesh-like network (albeit with WI-FI) a bit everywhere
<riteo>
I've seen it on the node zine
<midfavila-laptop>
i think I've heard of that, too
<midfavila-laptop>
it's a cool concept
<midfavila-laptop>
but ultimately not one I think would work in our current society
<riteo>
sadly yes
<riteo>
I think it's more of an education thing actually if we've gotten to this point
<midfavila-laptop>
ideally internet would be put on the same level as access to electricity, but it's still a "luxury". despite most education involving internet access, most companies expecting online applications, etc
<riteo>
instead of making fool proof software we should make less fools
<riteo>
isn't it like that in england
<midfavila-laptop>
i don't know about england. I can ask one of my britbong friends tomorrow
<midfavila-laptop>
it's like three AM in the UK rn
<riteo>
lmao same thing here
<midfavila-laptop>
but in Canada most people scoff at the idea of public, cheap internet
<riteo>
why?
<midfavila-laptop>
or, at least, treating internet as a utility
<midfavila-laptop>
because you don't *need* internet to survive, riteo
<midfavila-laptop>
ignoring that you don't strictly need shelter, running water, or electricity...
<riteo>
I mean
<riteo>
nowadays the phone's literally a VoIP
<midfavila-laptop>
yes, which is stupid
<riteo>
absolutely
<midfavila-laptop>
how am I supposed to charge my laptop in a power outage if I can't tap the phone grid
<riteo>
I shiver at the idea of not being able to contact people at my home because my voip server got down
<riteo>
like, wtf
<midfavila-laptop>
smh riteo
<midfavila-laptop>
we're not living in the 1800s any more
<riteo>
it's like removing the stairs because the elevator's better
<midfavila-laptop>
you mean your house doesn't have elevators instead of stairs
<riteo>
and then getting your house on fire
<midfavila-laptop>
italy sure is backwarsd
<midfavila-laptop>
backwards*
<riteo>
I can't tell if you're joking lmao
<midfavila-laptop>
neither can I
<riteo>
epic
<midfavila-laptop>
i'm on so many levels of irony my guy
<midfavila-laptop>
you don't even know
<riteo>
I feel you way too much
<riteo>
I still don't know if I'm using epic ironically or not
<midfavila-laptop>
meta-ironically
<riteo>
Like, I use bruh too
<riteo>
is that ironic? Was it?
<midfavila-laptop>
using something ironically to both make fun of those who use it unironically, but also to communicate an honest message
<riteo>
if you use something ironically get ready to normalize it
<midfavila-laptop>
that's just natural selection for memes
<midfavila-laptop>
that's why we need to create ever spicier memes
<midfavila-laptop>
to repel the normies
<riteo>
btw getting back to that italy is backwards thing
<midfavila-laptop>
that was ironic
<riteo>
I'm finding more and more that things that we took for granted are very different over in america
<midfavila-laptop>
oh, definitely
<midfavila-laptop>
my bulgarian friend says the same thing
<midfavila-laptop>
the EU seems to be pretty alien, to me
<riteo>
and a lot of things that happen there and that I learn over the web aren'tbtrue here
<riteo>
like, if you torrent your ISP does WHAT?
<midfavila-laptop>
the DMCA is a bitch
<midfavila-laptop>
thankfully, the most they do in Canada is send you a sternly-worded letter
<riteo>
ok but wtf
<midfavila-laptop>
it's the eyepee
<midfavila-laptop>
don't you understand
<midfavila-laptop>
every time you download eyepee illegally,
<midfavila-laptop>
corporation corp loses money
<midfavila-laptop>
and if corporation corp loses money, the CEO might have to decrease his multi-million dollar bonus
<midfavila-laptop>
doesn't that make you sad?
<riteo>
awww, you're right
<riteo>
time to buy disney+
<riteo>
here's piracy is like taken for granted
<midfavila-laptop>
don't forget about amazon prime, netflix, crunchyroll, hbo on demand...
<riteo>
lately netflix changed things a bunch though
<midfavila-laptop>
well, that makes sense
<midfavila-laptop>
piracy is a problem of supply
<midfavila-laptop>
make things more easily accessible and people won't pirate.
<riteo>
yes
<midfavila-laptop>
of course, netflix fucked this up
<midfavila-laptop>
as did disney
<riteo>
the Gabe Newell theorem
<midfavila-laptop>
wise beard man
<midfavila-laptop>
his words are wise
<midfavila-laptop>
his face is beard
<riteo>
he's beard
<midfavila-laptop>
his wisdom is worth its weight in gold
<midfavila-laptop>
just like him
<midfavila-laptop>
now, if you'll excuse me
<midfavila-laptop>
it's time to consume plain white bread
<midfavila-laptop>
because I'm too lazy to cook anything
<riteo>
yes
<riteo>
at least add some olive oil and salt
<midfavila-laptop>
nah
<riteo>
and you've got the tastiest thing in the world
<midfavila-laptop>
actually, kind of amusing that you're the one i'm talking to about bread
<riteo>
it was the snack of our parents here
<midfavila-laptop>
this is supposed to be italian-style
<midfavila-laptop>
not that I put any stock in that claim
<riteo>
wait, what bread you're talking about?
<midfavila-laptop>
it's from this brand called Villagio
<riteo>
did you mean villaggio?
<midfavila-laptop>
on a scale of ben's to homemade bread in terms of quality, it's like, a four
<midfavila-laptop>
yeah
<midfavila-laptop>
that's it
<riteo>
that means village
<midfavila-laptop>
i figured
<riteo>
yeah thinking about it it was kinda stupid to point that out lol
* midfavila-laptop
shrugs
<midfavila-laptop>
no worries
<midfavila-laptop>
i'm actually considering getting bread from the local bakery...
<riteo>
well, if it's italian style that's even better
<midfavila-laptop>
especially if they have brioche
<midfavila-laptop>
i looooooooooooooooooooooooooooove brioche, as a snack
<riteo>
oil and salt are the best thing on crunchy bread
claudia02 has quit [Quit: zzz]
<riteo>
like, we call it "pane cafone", it's the most rustic and common kind here
<midfavila-laptop>
huh
<midfavila-laptop>
maybe I'll try it, some time
<riteo>
do americans really eat that really soft white bread
<midfavila-laptop>
well, I'm not american
<riteo>
at lunch
<midfavila-laptop>
but yes
<midfavila-laptop>
i'm eating white bread right now
<midfavila-laptop>
it's cheap and doesn't taste horrible
<riteo>
oh, I mean, we have it
<riteo>
but we call it pan-carrè
<riteo>
like, it's only used for toasts and some types of sandwitches
<midfavila-laptop>
it's basically the norm in north america
<midfavila-laptop>
...well, not sure about mexico
<riteo>
I still can't get over it that you eat that bread, not like it's bad, just out of habit
<midfavila-laptop>
yeah, I imagine it would be pretty weird to you :p
<midfavila-laptop>
some people prefer whole wheat or other types, though
<midfavila-laptop>
like I said, I usually prefer brioche
<riteo>
that isn't bad
<acheam>
I rarely see people eat white bread here
<midfavila-laptop>
are you in the states, acheam?
<acheam>
midfavila-laptop: yep
<midfavila-laptop>
huh. for some reason I thought you were in the UK
<acheam>
uh
<acheam>
no
* midfavila-laptop
shrugs
<midfavila-laptop>
fuck, I need to acquire a dehumidifier somehow
<midfavila-laptop>
either try to build an improvised model or buy a commercial one...
<acheam>
just put out a sponge
<midfavila-laptop>
if only that worked
<midfavila-laptop>
also I don't think I have any sponges
<midfavila-laptop>
only scour pads
<riteo>
just drink the air
<riteo>
smh
<midfavila-laptop>
fuck, you're right
<midfavila-laptop>
how could I have not thought of this before
<riteo>
it's because big dehumidifier brainwashed you
<midfavila-laptop>
.O.
<midfavila-laptop>
what else could Big X be hiding from me
<midfavila-laptop>
find out next time on kiss linux z
<riteo>
#kisslinux - where the truth is told
m3g has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
<riteo>
coming up on #kisslinux: HDD's are fake
<midfavila-laptop>
the infowars of irc
<riteo>
they just unlock more data in your motherboard
<riteo>
data is stored in the mobo
<midfavila-laptop>
shit, that reminds me, I need to keep studying MIT 6.004......
<midfavila-laptop>
being able to design my own custom chips would be a useful skill
<riteo>
oh yeah
<midfavila-laptop>
lemme tell ya, if there comes a day when I have the skill to do so, I'll build my own completely custom computer
<midfavila-laptop>
hardware, software, everything
<midfavila-laptop>
zero glowie hardware
<riteo>
wow
<riteo>
midputer
<riteo>
with minux
<midfavila-laptop>
i'd probably style the OS after plan 9, if anything
<riteo>
using a miboard
<midfavila-laptop>
some sort of weird hybrid between p9 and mpm
<riteo>
and a mouse
<riteo>
oh cool
<midfavila-laptop>
probably would just use a backplane, all things considered
<riteo>
I tried installing p9 on qemu this morning
<midfavila-laptop>
how'd that go?
<riteo>
I have no idea
<riteo>
at first it crashed, twice on login
<midfavila-laptop>
are you making sure to log in as glenda
<riteo>
the third time it messed up the vga or something and didn't log me
<riteo>
i was literally noone
<midfavila-laptop>
yeah, that's why
<riteo>
like, that's just scary
<midfavila-laptop>
when the kernel asks you to provide a user name, you have to tell it to log in as glenda
<riteo>
the issue is that it didn-
<riteo>
wait
<riteo>
so THAT was that message
<midfavila-laptop>
it should ask after mounting the filesystem
<riteo>
it was super cryptic
<midfavila-laptop>
it's not really that cryptic
<riteo>
is it the bind thing?
<midfavila-laptop>
i can't recall at the moment
<midfavila-laptop>
i'll build qemu on my machine rn and try it in the morning
<midfavila-laptop>
...assuming I have an ssh server on my workstation
<riteo>
it asked me two weird questions and I gave the default
<midfavila-laptop>
otherwise you have to wait, because i'm in bed
<riteo>
not on the ground?
<midfavila-laptop>
no, that was earlier
<riteo>
crazy
<midfavila-laptop>
anyway, I forgot to enable my ssh server, so you have to wait
<riteo>
no worries
<riteo>
I'm really curious how the bidiricetional pipes work
<midfavila-laptop>
i'm not really in the mood to get up again
<riteo>
again, no worries
<midfavila-laptop>
idk
<midfavila-laptop>
i need to tinker with p9 more
<midfavila-laptop>
i'm mostly interested in its networking and filesystems
<riteo>
btw looking at it I kinda get what you mean with an useless os
<midfavila-laptop>
yup.
<riteo>
it really feels more like an experiment more than anything
<midfavila-laptop>
that's because it is
<midfavila-laptop>
p9 is a research operating system
<midfavila-laptop>
developed from research unix
<midfavila-laptop>
9front or inferno are more capable
<riteo>
I wonder if like it could be frankesteined with L4
<midfavila-laptop>
doubtful
<midfavila-laptop>
plan9 is mostly novel *because* of its kernel
<midfavila-laptop>
if you replaced it with sel4... you would just be running sel4 with p9 tools
<riteo>
shouldn't L4 implement the bare minimum?
<midfavila-laptop>
sel4 is a complete microkernel
<midfavila-laptop>
last I checked, anyway
<midfavila-laptop>
it's *also* very cool
<midfavila-laptop>
for different reasons
<riteo>
couldn't you make a module with the pipe syscall, or am I getting it completely wrong?
<midfavila-laptop>
namely that it's formally verified
<riteo>
sel4 is very cool
<riteo>
yeah
<midfavila-laptop>
and I'm not sure. I haven't used sel4 at all
<midfavila-laptop>
outside of Linux and QNX I don't have much experience
<riteo>
I thought that the whole point of ukernels was to build all sorts of things on top of it
<midfavila-laptop>
idek what ukernels are
<midfavila-laptop>
...oh, microkernels
<midfavila-laptop>
well, yes and no
<midfavila-laptop>
a microkernel implements the bare minimum amount of code to provide IPC
<midfavila-laptop>
and then everything else runs as a userspace daemon
<midfavila-laptop>
this reduces kernelspace attack surface and improves system stability
<midfavila-laptop>
since unlike a monokernel, if the filesystem subsystem dies, you can just restart it
<midfavila-laptop>
whereas a monokernel would panic
<riteo>
I wonder whether a daemon can implement custom syscalls
<midfavila-laptop>
i don't think so
<riteo>
s/can/could/
<midfavila-laptop>
but I'm also not much of a programmer
<riteo>
I really have to research more in this kind of exotic stuff
<midfavila-laptop>
if you want to learn about microkernels, GNU HURD might be of interest
<midfavila-laptop>
it's a distributed microkernel
<riteo>
wasn't it like never actually finished?
<midfavila-laptop>
i wouldn't recommend trying to *run* it, but it's definitely very cool
<midfavila-laptop>
and yeah, it's still in development hell
<midfavila-laptop>
the HURD is far too ambitious
<riteo>
I love it's acronym though
<midfavila-laptop>
the acronym is very cute, but like
<midfavila-laptop>
can I have 64-bit memory addresses please
<riteo>
s/it's/its/
<midfavila-laptop>
and also can you like
<midfavila-laptop>
maybe finish it within the next five years
<riteo>
lmao
<midfavila-laptop>
because I'm not liking where linux is going
<midfavila-laptop>
and would appreciate options
<riteo>
well, with modern software you can forget it
<midfavila-laptop>
most of my software is from the 1980s.
<riteo>
with more kiss-y things... Maybe that's possible
<riteo>
iirc musl has an L4 port
<midfavila-laptop>
the only modern programs I use regularly are...
<midfavila-laptop>
...
* midfavila-laptop
plays a dialup tone
<midfavila-laptop>
...I actually don't know
<riteo>
the midem
<midfavila-laptop>
in terms of complex software that I use on a regular basis that was developed in the past 20 years...
<midfavila-laptop>
when was ffmpeg released?
<riteo>
lemme check
<midfavila-laptop>
2000
<midfavila-laptop>
so I guess ffmpeg kind of counts
<midfavila-laptop>
21 years
<riteo>
eh, closer to 20 than 22
<riteo>
21
<midfavila-laptop>
*shrug*
<midfavila-laptop>
but yeah, that's the only software that's both "modern" and complex that I use
<midfavila-laptop>
at least, that I "need"
<midfavila-laptop>
everything else is either ancient, super simple, or both
<riteo>
I mean
<riteo>
nobody updated cat
<riteo>
everyone uses ancient software in one way or the other
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<midfavila-laptop>
well, what I mean is,
<midfavila-laptop>
my workflow wouldn't fundamentally change much if you dropped me in front of a PDP-11
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<riteo>
I see
<midfavila-laptop>
i don't really browse the web beyond retrieving plaintext documents, and if I absolutely need to view graphical files, I have a simple framebuffer image viewer
<riteo>
livimg the kiss life
<riteo>
s/livimg/living
<midfavila-laptop>
*shrug*
<riteo>
damn phone keyboards
<midfavila-laptop>
the only complex software I'd benefit from rn would be a CAD suite
<midfavila-laptop>
but even that's kind of optional, for what I do
<riteo>
the CAD world's hell rn
<midfavila-laptop>
i can just draft schematics by hand
<midfavila-laptop>
or use that really old military program
<midfavila-laptop>
MLS-something, I think?
<riteo>
the "industry standard" is the messiest and most bugged software that there is in the CAD world, and everyone will tell you that
<riteo>
yet paradoxically it's the best, or basically it
<midfavila-laptop>
i mean
<midfavila-laptop>
tbf
<midfavila-laptop>
i imagine CAD software isn't exactly simple
<midfavila-laptop>
it's intrinsically complex
<riteo>
yes but autocad has basic stuff completely broken that other clones implement well
<midfavila-laptop>
is autocad the one that has a lisp engine?
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<riteo>
like I remember a friend of mine that does this kind of stuff can't fill a shape properly, but with a worse chinese clone that works well
<riteo>
idk
<riteo>
i worded that message pretty badly
<riteo>
i meant that autocad is broken even at filling shapes, but a pretty worse clone can
<midfavila-laptop>
*shrugs again*
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<riteo>
time to make kiss cad
<riteo>
in posix shell, obviously
<midfavila-laptop>
i think the closest thing would be that military simulator I mentioned
<midfavila-laptop>
but, of all things
<midfavila-laptop>
it uses fucking tk for its GUI
<midfavila-laptop>
like, what the hell
<riteo>
that's a real bruh moment right there
<midfavila-laptop>
why is a military modelling suite using tk
<midfavila-laptop>
of all the places to find it
<midfavila-laptop>
i actually wish more stuff used tk
<riteo>
meh
<midfavila-laptop>
tk and fltk are both decent toolkits, imho
<riteo>
tk looks really bad
<midfavila-laptop>
1.
<midfavila-laptop>
are you theming it
<midfavila-laptop>
2.
<riteo>
it tries to fetch gtk's theme but can't properly
<midfavila-laptop>
that's subjective
<riteo>
ik, ik
<midfavila-laptop>
i'm still waiting for STLWRT
<riteo>
for what?
<midfavila-laptop>
it's a hard fork of GTK2
<midfavila-laptop>
with GTK3 compat
<riteo>
interesting
<midfavila-laptop>
yeah
<midfavila-laptop>
the lead dev has even gotten the entirety of MATE to compile against it
<riteo>
that's actually quite impressive
<midfavila-laptop>
mhm
<midfavila-laptop>
i'm kind of torn between developing programs with gtk2 now or waiting for stlwrt 1.0
<riteo>
imo, start practicing with gtk2
<midfavila-laptop>
that's what I'm thinking
<midfavila-laptop>
i have a few programs in mind that I really want to write
<riteo>
they shouldn't be too different, and probably most if not all concepts will transfer easily
<midfavila-laptop>
and that would go a long way to making me more independent of FVWM
<midfavila-laptop>
because for whatever goddamn reason, FVWM has twice as much Go as C
<midfavila-laptop>
and that's unacceptable
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<riteo>
what do you mean
<riteo>
it's github tells me that it's all C
<riteo>
s/it's/its/
<midfavila-laptop>
cloc reports there's a significant portion written in Go
<midfavila-laptop>
there's also Perl and stuff
<riteo>
weird
<riteo>
anyways that's a very big devault moment
<midfavila-laptop>
i just don't want to use google tech
<midfavila-laptop>
i *barely* tolerate webm
<midfavila-laptop>
because it's that or mp4
<riteo>
eh, I mean, as long as it's open
<midfavila-laptop>
that's a bad mentality to have
<midfavila-laptop>
corporate influence is always bad
<riteo>
I have to agree with you on that
<riteo>
for some reason go isn't that scary to me
<riteo>
do you know what I absolutely hate though
<midfavila-laptop>
wbat's that
<riteo>
ztsd or however it's spelled
<midfavila-laptop>
ah, zstd
<riteo>
I have an absolute rage towards it
<riteo>
maybe because it messed up pacman
<riteo>
I really really hate it
<midfavila-laptop>
isn't zstd facebook tech?
<riteo>
yes
<riteo>
primarily for that
<midfavila-laptop>
eugh
<midfavila-laptop>
well, time to rebuild links2
<midfavila-laptop>
somehow zstd slipped into my system
<riteo>
eww
<riteo>
nasty
<midfavila-laptop>
indeed
<riteo>
how did it get there?
<midfavila-laptop>
must have been dragged in by some piece of software that I forgot to remove deps of, and then links2 compiled against it automatically
<midfavila-laptop>
just a matter of altering links2-mod's buildfile
<riteo>
good
<riteo>
kill it with fire
<midfavila-laptop>
i actually need to modify my links patch...
<riteo>
lmao I wrote ztsd because I thought I was mixing it with STD
<riteo>
but no, it's actually zstd
<midfavila-laptop>
yup.
<riteo>
zuckemberg STD
<midfavila-laptop>
gah, there needs to be e-ink laptop displays already
<midfavila-laptop>
i hate LCDs
<riteo>
btw my mom finds those panasonic laptops very cool
<midfavila-laptop>
tell your mom that I think she has good taste in electronics
<riteo>
aesthetically though
<midfavila-laptop>
well, aesthetically, they *are* cool
<midfavila-laptop>
:p
<riteo>
yeah I find it cool too
<midfavila-laptop>
was she looking at the CF-C2, or one of the fully-rugged models?
<riteo>
the CF-C3
<riteo>
C2
<riteo>
god
<midfavila-laptop>
was gonna say, "There's a C3?"
<riteo>
lmao
<riteo>
thank soft keyboards
<midfavila-laptop>
but yeah, the CF-C2 is nifty. I want to rubber-coat and stencil my laptop's lid sometime
<riteo>
I found out that someone sells full fledged cf-c2s for 300 bucks, with also a reprinted keyboard
<midfavila-laptop>
and if I can, maybe try to replace the keyboard with a thinkpad one
<midfavila-laptop>
oh. yeah
<midfavila-laptop>
a lot of people buy and refurb old toughbooks
<riteo>
are those keyboards special?
<riteo>
like, connectors/size wise
<midfavila-laptop>
well, thinkpads are renowned for having fantastic keyboards
<midfavila-laptop>
but I don't think they are.
<midfavila-laptop>
just standard PS/2 over a ribbon cable.
<riteo>
that's actually pretty amazing
<midfavila-laptop>
all I'd have to do, in *theory*, is figure out a way to fit the thinkpad keeb into the CF-C2 chassis
<midfavila-laptop>
woop, zstd removed
<riteo>
yes
<riteo>
time to celebrate
<midfavila-laptop>
now to set my sights on mesa
* midfavila-laptop
cracks their knuckles
<midfavila-laptop>
there will be no apple-dependent garbage on my libre machine
<riteo>
what do you mean
<midfavila-laptop>
mesa requires llvm
<riteo>
oh
<midfavila-laptop>
which is heavily funded by apple
<riteo>
o h
<midfavila-laptop>
yep
<riteo>
btw I'll tell my mom that thing you asked me to tell her
<midfavila-laptop>
kek
<riteo>
in the end she's actually quite kek
<riteo>
btw told her the allowance thing and watnot
<midfavila-laptop>
are you so feeble that you can't carry a three to five-pound laptop
<necromansy>
are the standard reasons
<riteo>
some (I guess older people) are a bit scared of them snapping, but people talk a lot of thinness, expecially some time ago when it was more noticeable
<riteo>
yeah primarily people want to carry them everywhere
<midfavila-laptop>
i'm *terrified* of modern toys breaking when I touch them
<riteo>
as if they needed other stuff 99% of the time
<riteo>
bruh, you don't need a slimmer phone
<midfavila-laptop>
phones were fine seven years ago, in terms of dimensions
<midfavila-laptop>
modern phones are too flimsy and large
<riteo>
you got a camera, calculator, phone, recorder and a lot more of stuff in your hand
<midfavila-laptop>
meanwhile, my blackberry? I've accidentally whipped it against a wall before, and it was totally fine
<midfavila-laptop>
the wall, however, had a blackberry-sized hole in it.
<riteo>
yes, they are supposed to be comfier but the opposite happens
<midfavila-laptop>
am I just a boomer
<riteo>
my fingers are already hurting writing on this huge screen
<midfavila-laptop>
like
<midfavila-laptop>
what's happening
<midfavila-laptop>
what bizarroworld am I living in
<riteo>
I don't think you're a boomer
<riteo>
I mean, look at me
<riteo>
I think that at this point is pretty clear that I'm pretty young
<midfavila-laptop>
can't be much younger than me. /shrug
<necromansy>
was gonna say
<necromansy>
mid is a gd kid
<riteo>
gd?
<midfavila-laptop>
"goddamn" presumably
<necromansy>
yes
<riteo>
oh, never heard of it
<riteo>
well, their sense of humour is pretty juvenile
<midfavila-laptop>
wow, rude.
<riteo>
That's refreshing
<necromansy>
lmao
<midfavila-laptop>
gonna go cry now, riteo
<riteo>
I lost
<riteo>
I can't believe it
<midfavila-laptop>
hm?
<riteo>
I didn't know mid preferred dad jokes to 383828382847 layers of irony
<riteo>
am I bad?
<midfavila-laptop>
dad jokes are good *sometimes*
<midfavila-laptop>
"I'm hungry." "Hi, hungry." is a classic
<riteo>
yes
<midfavila-laptop>
and nobody can tell me otherwise
<riteo>
but only that
<riteo>
like, the rest is the same thing with a different word pretty much
<riteo>
omg mid have you added another picture on your website?
<midfavila-laptop>
i did
<riteo>
do you want to eat my data cap
<midfavila-laptop>
it's like 16kb
<riteo>
ik, I'm joking
<midfavila-laptop>
my website is accessible over dialup, quit yer whinin'
<midfavila-laptop>
i'm trying to limit myself to 56k per page, ignoring recurring images
<midfavila-laptop>
since those will be cached
<riteo>
cool
<midfavila-laptop>
anything that isn't directly related to the content of that particular page will have to be requested explicitly by the user
<midfavila-laptop>
e.g full-size screenshots
<riteo>
now I like it
<riteo>
gemini mirror when
<midfavila-laptop>
when I get around to writing one
<midfavila-laptop>
same with gopher
<midfavila-laptop>
i'm technically entitled to gopher and gemini hosting...
<riteo>
cool!
<midfavila-laptop>
as it stands, I want to start experimenting with CGI more
<riteo>
btw just to be sure know that I wanted to compliment your sense of humour
<midfavila-laptop>
i figured
<riteo>
couldn't tell, too much irony
<riteo>
lmao
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<midfavila-laptop>
ah fuck
<midfavila-laptop>
it's almost menight
<midfavila-laptop>
i should log off soon...
* riteo
laughs in 5 am
<midfavila-laptop>
go to sleep
<riteo>
I will soon
<midfavila-laptop>
lw\\\
<midfavila-laptop>
fuck
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<riteo>
welp my network messed up
<riteo>
I think I'll quit for now
<riteo>
gn everyone!
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<testuser[m]1>
Hi
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<testuser[m]1>
If you use some part of a GPL licensed project as a reference for your own, but only a couple of lines of code are similar, can you license it under MIT?
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<testuser[m]1>
that didn't make much sense. Eg that project uses a lib that you wanna use, so you use part of their code to see the usage of some library functions and end up with a few lines of code that are pretty similar
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<dilyn>
are you linking against their library?
<dilyn>
or just saying 'ah this function is pretty similar to what I need, I can tweak this'
<dilyn>
the former, it's gpl. the latter, it's... *probably* not
<dilyn>
it has to be sufficiently different to not just be 'the same code'
<testuser[m]1>
dilyn: i mean their project uses libfoo, i want to use libfoo, i check their usage of 1-2 functions of libfoo and end up doing something that's almost the same (just 5-10 lines tho)
<testuser[m]1>
So you can say 10 lines duplicated from their code
<dilyn>
are those functions related to documented usage of libfoo?
<dilyn>
you're probably fine
<dilyn>
if the fsf wants to weaponize their legal bullion to annihilate you over 10 lines of code, you can just mark that code as GPL :v the rest of your stuff can be MIT and then when you get around to replacing it you'll be free from their bollucks
<testuser[m]1>
Cool
<testuser[m]1>
Thanks
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<kiedtl>
matrix says goodbye
<acheam>
its been doing that a lot recently
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<riteo>
hii!
<zenomat>
Hey
<acheam>
does anybody have reccomendations on how I should name/version my lariza fork? It's diverging a bit now, and I don't want to tread on lariza's namespace / have 2 projects with the same name, but the versions of the same number have different features, etc
<riteo>
usually when I fork something that's still that I just change the namespace to start with my own
<riteo>
like, for my godot fork I just changed the namespace from org.godotengine.godot to it.riteo.godot
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<acheam>
welcome back testuser[m]
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<acheam>
looks like matrix is coming back online
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<riteo>
nice
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<riteo>
acheam regarding that project is the issue with namespaces or with the project name itself?
<riteo>
cause if you want to make a new name you can try asking a german person to make a quirky phrase, add ++ to it or simply name it something that sounds like that (for example chorizo)
<riteo>
for some reason I prefer chorizo
<omanom>
use "larizb" duh
<riteo>
lmao
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<acheam>
riteo: project name itself, I used namespace incorrectly in my original message
<acheam>
how does structured text take up that much space
<riteo>
you know what
<riteo>
I seriously don't know
<riteo>
frameworks maybe?
<acheam>
lots of JS stuff
<riteo>
oh right
<riteo>
if people wanted a way of running arbitrary programs in a sandbox why not stick to something like Java?
<riteo>
JS has been abused way too much, let it die
<acheam>
omg
<acheam>
my workplace's website is 17.38MB
<riteo>
BRUH
<riteo>
time to measure it in DOOMs
<testuser[m]1>
Workplace ?
<acheam>
employer
<kiedtl>
>time to measure it in DOOMs
<acheam>
the worst thing is that they had this great old website
<kiedtl>
You know, that's something I'll actually do
<acheam>
then they replaced it with this abomination
<riteo>
your worklpace's website is ~7.43 DOOMs
<kiedtl>
acheam: but the old one wasn't Modern:tm: and Slick:r:
<riteo>
this is ridicolous lmao
<acheam>
community-boating.org if you want to make fun of it
<riteo>
why does it need all that js
<testuser[m]1>
Conjoom
<testuser[m]1>
Lol the site is actually pretty bad compared to other ones I've seen, not a single button can be clicked without js
<riteo>
I'm pretty sure it could all be done in CSS and HTML5
<acheam>
yes.
<testuser[m]1>
Why don't you propose a change acheam
<schillingklaus>
this kind of sites needs to be boycotted with fire and sword, rigorously at any cost
<acheam>
beacuse they spent a ton of money getting this one made, and they're really proud of it
<testuser[m]1>
Lol
<acheam>
i'm also not really in a position to do that
<riteo>
this feels like it was made with a builder
<riteo>
look at the sponsor thing, it has non functioning arrows
<acheam>
the guy was paid per the megabyte
<riteo>
If they spent a lot of money for it they got scammed
<riteo>
he was paid per WHAT
<acheam>
/s
<testuser[m]1>
The social media icons also have an out of place brown backgrpumd
<riteo>
acheam I seriously believed that
<acheam>
backgrpmud
<riteo>
backgrpmud
<riteo>
I feel like we should have waited for the word of the day
<lastchansen>
Hi guys. Quick question. I want to build htop, and it shows up when I search for htop in community but when I try to build it, I get a message saying it's not in any of my repos.
<acheam>
your KISS_PATH might be set wrong
<lastchansen>
I just checked my .profile which lists the correct path.
<acheam>
hmm
<lastchansen>
yeah..
<acheam>
can you verify by echo $KISS_PATH
<riteo>
have you echoed it?
<acheam>
maybe the file isn't sourced or something
<lastchansen>
I'll just check again.
<lastchansen>
yup.. still there
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<lastchansen>
the error is: "package not found" and "Version file not found".
<lastchansen>
I checked the package in the repo and there is a Version-file.
<lastchansen>
I get this error on some packages, but not all
<acheam>
can you build other packages in community
<lastchansen>
yup.
<lastchansen>
I just tried with micro
<lastchansen>
its currently building.
<lastchansen>
or.. it failed because of go, but still :)
<lastchansen>
failed to download yadayada 16.4.src.tar.gz
<acheam>
hmm, I cannot reproduce
<acheam>
can you cd into the htop folder within the community repo and "kiss b"
<lastchansen>
arh.. ffs
<lastchansen>
yeah, if I im /var/db/repos/community/community/ I can build htop, but it still fails because of autoconf-2.71.tar.gz
<lastchansen>
failed to download.
<acheam>
can't reproduce
<acheam>
I can download it fine
<lastchansen>
I did an update about 10 mins ago, but I should I git pull the repos?
<acheam>
no, 'kiss u' will pull them for you
<lastchansen>
hmm..
<acheam>
can you visit ftp.gnu.org in a web browser?
<acheam>
but there are 3 seperate issues here, and they all seem to just be on your end
<acheam>
well, idk about the golang one
<lastchansen>
I'm currently in tty. Will try again later.
<acheam>
but the other two
<lastchansen>
Yeah, I'm pretty sure they are on my end :)
<lastchansen>
arh.. yeah, it's totally on my end. Cant resolve host.
<acheam>
can you resolve other hosts?
<lastchansen>
No.. I have set up a pihole and there seems to be some issues with my ip.
<lastchansen>
Thanks :) Ive got some stuff to go on.
<acheam>
have fun
<lastchansen>
work with
<lastchansen>
hehe :) thanks
<acheam>
doesn't explain the htop not being found issue though
<lastchansen>
I'll figure out the other stuff and see what happens :)
<riteo>
maybe it's just like, a generic error?
<riteo>
like, not parsing it correctly it ultimately says that it doesn't exist?
<acheam>
no an internet failure would not cause a package not found error
<lastchansen>
riteo: more likely a user error. Kiss Linux is a bit more advanced than I'm used to
<acheam>
it would find the package, and then curl would err
<riteo>
right
<riteo>
well, lastchansen tell us how it goes!
<lastchansen>
riteo: sure thing :)
<lastchansen>
thanks for the feedback
<riteo>
ugh it's taking way too much for gpu prices to fall again
<riteo>
I'm really tempted to run kiss with nvidia drivers, but my autistic ass is really against that
<riteo>
I think I'll do it on that cool panasonic laptop that I'll get soon
<riteo>
you see, it's actually possible to run nvidia drivers on musl and I've got it to work (at least partially) too, but for ethical reasons I really don't want to continue that project
<kqz>
amd and intel makes things so much easier
<riteo>
too bad that now a radeon rx 5500 with 8gb VRAM costs $700
<lastchansen>
riteo acheam: okay.. I didn't even have an IP. I forgot to start dhcpcd. I'll go hide in a corner.
<riteo>
well duh it's meant for quick prototyping and simple programs
<midfavila-laptop>
the only based interpreted languages are LISPs and Lua
<midfavila-laptop>
i'll fight you on that
<dilyn>
riteo: statically linked systems bring along their own frustrations that are difficult to manage
<riteo>
uh, didn't know that
<dilyn>
I still haven't fixed the depends files for KISS-static :X
<dilyn>
it's hard to break, just difficult to upgrade haha
<riteo>
I always thought that since everyone used humongous libs they switched to dynamic-linking
<midfavila-laptop>
i mean, yes
<dilyn>
there were many reasons to switch to dynamic libs
<dilyn>
and now here we are, with a graphics stack that heavily leverages dl_open :v
<dilyn>
thx mesa
<omanom>
riteo I use python pretty much everywhere it doesn't make sense to use shell or it is easier for me to just do it with python
<riteo>
I always saw python as a way fancier shell
<omanom>
in like... 99% of cases "but its slow" doesn't actually matter
<riteo>
yeah
<omanom>
and in a good portion of those cases there are ways to get it faster if you /really/ want to instead of using something arguably more appropriate for the solution
<midfavila-laptop>
the problem is more "it's inefficient"
<omanom>
compared to? like, what are you trying to do with it?
<riteo>
I looked for kiss-static and found out oasis
<riteo>
it's hella weird, but extremely interesting
<midfavila-laptop>
i once wrote a simple program that used tk to create three buttons that each ran a simple shell command when clicked
<midfavila-laptop>
this required upwards of sixty megs of memory.
<riteo>
did you really use python for a GUI program mid
<midfavila-laptop>
i didn't know how to use C or LISP at the time
<midfavila-laptop>
nobully
<riteo>
don't worry
<riteo>
it's just that you used a plastic hammer for hitting a steel nail
<riteo>
I'm not sure if I can make it making nvidia drivers work on kiss
<midfavila-laptop>
ew
<riteo>
I know mid
<midfavila-laptop>
use based matrox
<riteo>
but I'm desperate
<midfavila-laptop>
there's always xf86-video-vesa
<midfavila-laptop>
:^)
<omanom>
doesn't Tk actually spin up an embedded TCL interpreter along with your GUI elements? was that 60MB actually really python's "fault"?
<riteo>
midfavila-laptop: but minecraft
<midfavila-laptop>
i find it hard to believe that spawning a single button requires TCL to use even ten megs.
<midfavila-laptop>
*admittedly*, I didn't check
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<dilyn>
riteo: oasis is wonderful! I want to use it more
<dilyn>
but alas, I am busy
<riteo>
it really takes a completely new spin on package management
<dilyn>
yeah mcf did a beautiful thing
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<omanom>
http://ix.io/3p5J this is averaging ~10MB idling on my KISS Linux install, so 60MB seems like a stretch unless there was something weird with the setup
<noocsharp>
riteo: im building a pinephone system based on oasis, very pleasant to hack on
<noocsharp>
getting my changes onto the phone is as simple as `git pull`
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<omanom>
noocsharp have you looked at different serialization protocol options for your socket comms? i'd be curious what is available
<riteo>
noocsharp: cool!
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<noocsharp>
omanom: at the beginning i considered just using a wayland protocol extension (because serialization is free and it will be fairly integrated with the ui anyway), but ended up deciding against it for the sake of reducing dependencies
<noocsharp>
i think im just gonna stick with writing convenience functions for serialization
<omanom>
is it for IPC between your modem daemon(s) and whatever client apps you write?
<noocsharp>
yeah
<noocsharp>
i wish there were a way to do posix message queues with one connection endpoint for clients... i totally would have used that instead
<noocsharp>
then i don't think i would even have to worry about serializing data
<omanom>
most of those AT commands and responses are probably small enough that any serialization doesn't really provide much of a gain i guess
<noocsharp>
maybe its less serialization and more encoding/decoding
<noocsharp>
idk what to call it
<omanom>
yeah i always mix them up. marshaling/unmarshaling, encoding/decoding, serializing/deserializing, packing/unpacking, etc
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<noocsharp>
the goal is just to get the data across the wire in way that the other side knows what to do with it
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<noocsharp>
wait, i'm stupid
<noocsharp>
i can literally just send a struct over the wire like any other data
<noocsharp>
i don't need no encoding
<jedavies>
noocsharp: you have the code somewhere? Would be cool to try out. Just using sway + wvkbd on mine.
<noocsharp>
i uploaded the swc/st/svkbd code, but i don't think my atd code is ready yet
<noocsharp>
i also haven't put my oasis repo up yet, but i probably should
<noocsharp>
it's all pretty fragile and buggy at the moment anyway
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<riteo>
guys what should I do with /usr/local/lib?
<riteo>
it isn't there by default anywhere and some package installs there
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<riteo>
should I like, symlink it?
<june>
Tell packages not to install there?
<riteo>
is there a non messy way?
<riteo>
I did just a regular make install
<acheam>
PREFIX=/ur
<acheam>
ehr
<acheam>
/usr
<acheam>
add that to your make commands
<riteo>
oh, thanks!
<riteo>
yep, it worked. Thanks a lot!
<riteo>
does anyone know if there's some way of adding optional dependencies to packages?
<riteo>
should I detect them at compile time or is that simply out of scope?
<acheam>
up to you
<riteo>
oh ok
<acheam>
the webkit2gtk package does optional dependencies
<acheam>
it "kiss list <optional dep> && variable=true"
<acheam>
then sets the make option to the value of the variable
<riteo>
I'll do that then, thanks for the tip!
<riteo>
wouldn't it be, like, weird to call the package manager from the package itself though?
<riteo>
what if someone uses a non standard package manager? Do they just alias it to kiss?
<acheam>
that's partly why i'm not a fan of it
<riteo>
maybe I can make it depend on pkgconf and use that?
<riteo>
I mean, those are all libraries after all
<acheam>
yeah that would work
<acheam>
or just make the package work for your use case
<riteo>
well I was improving the gcompat package
<riteo>
you see, it actually supports a lot more symbols by linking extra libraries to it
<riteo>
and one important one for nvidia is musl-fts if you want to run the installer
<riteo>
I thought it'd be nice to contribute back this change, that's why I hoped to make it optional
<riteo>
also, is pkgconf implicit?
<riteo>
it looks like dylan didn't make gcompat depend on it
<acheam>
i mean, its not the biggest deal in the world if you forget it
<acheam>
but you should still include it
<riteo>
huh, he probably forgot
<riteo>
although the style guide talks about implicit dependencies
<jslick0>
I think illiliti cited that as a complication of the king package manager
<acheam>
ye
<acheam>
uhh what is dylan even trying to say in that section>
<riteo>
mh, isn't there possibly another approach for that package?
<riteo>
"if you don't need it, don't specify it", dug
<riteo>
duh
<riteo>
I guess he means that optional dependencies must be removed from the depends file
<riteo>
he kinda states the obvious though in other points too
<riteo>
look at 1203 and 1204
<jslick0>
I think it means if there are no dependencies, then delete the depends file
<acheam>
pkg-config is implicit
<riteo>
no, that's 1206
<jslick0>
oh
<acheam>
some packages in main have it, others dont
<acheam>
and I've never heard of anyone complaining that a package won't build because pkgconf is missing
<riteo>
I mean, can you call it a working system without pkgconf?
<riteo>
thanks for checking btw
<acheam>
well, its just a make tool
<acheam>
not needed for runtime
<riteo>
right
<acheam>
so you could absolutely remove it
<riteo>
mhh, I think I'll put it in just to be sure
<riteo>
I think that the standard could be tightened up a bit
<acheam>
dilyn
<acheam>
can we get a verdict on this?
<acheam>
the problem is
<acheam>
people forget about them
<acheam>
because they don't build in a clean chroot or whatever, so they don't realize its a dep
<acheam>
and the dependency scanning kiss does wont detect a build dep
<riteo>
I think that's another issue
<acheam>
i mean, I don't build my packages in a chroot, aint nobody got time for that
<riteo>
maybe we could as well throw in a tool for checking that with a clean chroot, arch linux style, but that may be overkill
<riteo>
everyone could have time for that if they got an automated tool
<acheam>
for small packages sure
<riteo>
I see what you mean
<riteo>
if we really wanted to be sure could we use like a build server somewhere, maybe github's one?
<riteo>
like at commit time
<riteo>
anyways making a tighter more flavor-independent standard would be nice IMO
<riteo>
the checking tool would be only part of this whole tightening up, but maybe more experienced people could tell at PR time
<riteo>
we really need dilyn thoughts on this before going further
<nerditup>
We typically don't want to pull in dependencies unless absolutely necessary, no? Bonus if you patch the upstream source to trim dependencies further
<riteo>
well, if pkgconf's needed at build time why not specify it?
<nerditup>
I think that check just tries to reinforce this, but agreed it can definitely be more explicit
<riteo>
it makes sense for dylan to not think about it too much and make it as tight as it could be, after all there was only one kiss
<nerditup>
You specify as build, so it doesn't get installed when kiss install is run, right?
<riteo>
idk for sure
<riteo>
I would guess so
<nerditup>
That's how I do it
<riteo>
but nowadays there are other kiss flavors and while we shouldn't like sacrifice stuff for them if it doesn't cost that much to help them out I don't see why we shouldn't
<riteo>
also explicit is better IMO
<riteo>
but again, we need dilyn's verdict on this
<nerditup>
Can't argue there
<acheam>
pkg-config is implicit
<acheam>
some packages in main have it, others dont
<acheam>
and I've never heard of anyone complaining that a package won't build because pkgconf is missing
<riteo>
I wonder if acheam is still vulnerable to heartbleed
* riteo
makes a messed up request
<nerditup>
Anybody crazy enough to build/run their own distros from first principles should have the proper personality type to want to build a new open browser from scratch lol
<riteo>
it's simple nerditup
<nerditup>
Right? Okay, cool
<riteo>
anybody crazy enough to build/run their own distros from first principles should have the proper personality type to understand that the web is simply wrong
<riteo>
it's very very very messed up
<riteo>
supporting it would go against said first principles