03:58 <SiFuh> r0ni: A friend of mine posted a package to me with Australia Post. She selected the Express. It was almost 3 months by the time it had arrived.

05:06 <r0ni> express? lol that's really shameful. I get that it's australia, but we're not talking about another planet lengths away!

05:20 <SiFuh> r0ni: Yeah she was pissed off that she paid extra for express thinking it would arrive quicker.

05:21 <SiFuh> I had another package that was posted from Melbourne in Australia a week after she had posted her package. Mine was through DHL and it arrived in 5 days.

05:38 <remiliascarlet> Every European country tells me it takes 7 business days for packages to arrive to me, but reality always proves otherwise. From some countries, it's quite literally 7 business days, some others it's up to 3 months. Go figure.

05:39 <remiliascarlet> At one point, cheese even arrived already rotting.

05:40 <remiliascarlet> Because it took them this long to deliver.

05:41 <remiliascarlet> None of the post offices knew where my package were, because they claimed it never arrived, neither did any of the post offices in the source country, because they claimed it has already left the country. So did the package just float mid-air for 3 months?

06:16 <SiFuh> remiliascarlet: During the soviet era if you posted two letters at the same time. One to the house down the road in Kyrgyzstan and the other to Moscow the Moscow letter will arrive first within the week but the Kyrgyz letter for down the road would take several months.

06:27 <SiFuh> Actually it still takes a month to post anything or Kyrgyzstan

06:28 <SiFuh> I have a package coming from Estonia it was posted 16 days ago and the last thing it ever said was 'Departure from sender country'. I also know when Sunyou use to post via Uzbekistan it would take up to 6 months for the package to arrive.

06:29 <SiFuh> I never understood why they send a parcel from China to Uzbekistan to Malaysia. Someone said they often lump everything together because it is cheaper

06:53 <remiliascarlet> It might me wish a package teleporter could be invented, so no more waiting for delivery, you just put it in a microwave, and within 1 nanosecond, the person on the other side of the planet receives it in his or her microwave.

06:54 <remiliascarlet> Or fridge if you don't have a microwave.

07:02 <SiFuh> Or a stargate ;-)

07:03 <SiFuh> I always thought how cool it would be to work part time in Australia and when you finish work you step in through a stargate and voila you are in Thailand.

07:05 <Stx> That doesn't sound too bad actually

07:35 <r0ni> plugged in ssd which has win10 on it but hasn't been powered up since 2021.... and wow what a mess. it's about to get wiped and replaced with crux since it's well past it's gaming days usage days

07:36 <r0ni> and maybe if i get bored enough i can see how bad steam really is on linux

07:46 <remiliascarlet> Steam on Linux isn't all that bad actually, you only need to avoid games with DRM (especially the well hated Denuvo), and most of the modern AAA games (which are all shovelware these days anyway).

07:47 <remiliascarlet> Steam even shows you on the game's page whether it has an EULA, or DRM, or login required, or some other anti-consumer practice.

07:47 <r0ni> my steam "collection" is games over a decade old and since i only have intel video anyway, i won't be playing anything much

07:48 <r0ni> i think the last game i was actually playing was new vegas

07:48 <remiliascarlet> Most of my Steam library consists of indie games, if I need to play AAA games, it typically works better and a lot easier in emulators.

07:49 <remiliascarlet> And just about every console and handheld has at least 1 emulator that's built natively for Linux. Except for Nintendo 64, because mupen64plus is really crappy, and Project64 is Windows-only.

07:49 <r0ni> i have a switch and thats generally my gaming console, but i also have my kids old xbox (which i bought RDR2 for) but it just turns off when the game actually starts :(

07:50 <r0ni> ya i'm familiar with the emu scene... I was one of the OGs there, I basically won't even touch a emu these days but I do contribute the mac version of mame for them

07:51 <remiliascarlet> I have all the consoles I emulate, they serve as ROM dumping stations, so at least nobody can guilt trip me into "you're a pirate", and most ROMs you can find online are either European or American versions.

07:53 <r0ni> you should see my table, its littered with a famicom, sfc, many, many gameboys and piles of games for them all with my tiny little crt. tho tbh I haven't touched any of it in quite som etime

07:54 <remiliascarlet> And downloading ROMs, uploading ROMs, and even dumping ROMs are considered a "criminal act" here, because so many AAA devs originate from this country, but instead of just making quality games again, they just lobby the government to stop people from peacefully protesting, I mean pirating their low effort, low quality games.

07:54 <r0ni> something inside me told me to "let the old games die" and i haven't touched them in ages now

07:55 <remiliascarlet> Unless you're Nintendo, then you both make good games, and sue your own fans over not owning nothing and being happy.

07:55 <r0ni> roms are illegal here as well, but what else am I supposed to download? roms or linux distros is all I got lol

07:56 <remiliascarlet> Honestly, I couldn't care less. Have been using torrents to download the most illegal stuff imaginable without a VPN, and nothing happened to me.

07:57 <r0ni> laws are meant to be broken

07:57 <remiliascarlet> But that's Asia; as long as you don't do drugs or speak ill of the king, everything is a grey area.

07:59 <remiliascarlet> And if they lock somebody up over breaking the law, it's just some actor to make an example of anyway.

08:08 <SiFuh> I do the same as remiliascarlet. Never care. The main reason is because everything is streamed these days

08:30 <r0ni> jaeger there an error with updated installer 'python3-libxml2' has conflicting files with another pkg - iso from yesterday

08:30 <remiliascarlet> From Alan's repository?

08:31 <remiliascarlet> That repository hasn't been uploaded in years, so I don't even bother using it.

08:31 <r0ni> no this just a satandard installer with core/opt/xorg

08:31 <remiliascarlet> So all the software in Alan's repository are outdated.

08:32 <remiliascarlet> That's odd, because if I search for python3-libxml2, the crux.nu website shows that only Alan has it.

08:34 <SiFuh> Alan's repo isn't outdated.

08:34 <SiFuh> It's just a bad repo

08:34 <r0ni> ya not sure, it' sver 2.10.4 and thats not any of those versions

08:35 <r0ni> could be a accidental inclusion, i'm not worried about it, i'll fix it

08:35 <remiliascarlet> Well, if you ship PHP 7.4.33 while PHP 8.2.10 is the latest version, and your repo still has Fcitx 4 instead of Fcitx 5, that's enough indication to consider it outdated.

08:35 <SiFuh> remiliascarlet: https://crux.ninja/portdb/

08:36 <SiFuh> 35% Fatal ;-)

08:37 <r0ni> ya that repo is pretty bad lookin, to each their own, but i wouldn't trust it lol

08:38 <remiliascarlet> SiFuh: theo and therealfun are both 100% fatal, on top of that, neither of them have much software in them.

08:39 <SiFuh> remiliascarlet: theo's repo is just missing the footprint files

08:40 <SiFuh> therealfun's has no Maintainer line at the top of the Pkgfiles

08:40 <remiliascarlet> Apart from of course the official collections, the only ones that are 100% INFO/OK are jaeger, jmq, jolupalabs, mate, ppetrov, suwaports, and yenjie.

08:41 <SiFuh> yenjie is mine

08:41 <r0ni> if I ever let mine get all in the red, I'll just take it down and have it removed... no sense in showing off how I suck at that point

08:41 <SiFuh> r0ni: Hahaha

08:42 <r0ni> hell, my two yellows stresses me out lol

08:42 <remiliascarlet> SiFuh: Nice email address by the way, the shortest of them all.

08:43 <SiFuh> r0ni: Same for me when things are not green

08:43 <SiFuh> remiliascarlet: I never saw a reason for anyone to have my email address when they can just jump in channel and whinge here

08:45 <remiliascarlet> You'll be missing out on all those cringy phishing, tech support scam, fake hacker who found your nudes, Nigerian prince, and subscriptions you've never signed up for though.

08:45 <SiFuh> I have an email for that.

08:45 <SiFuh> Nigerian Prince

08:46 <SiFuh> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3zjRcMnRNY

08:48 <r0ni> i feel like the only reason to even have an email is to get spam anymore

08:52 <SiFuh> I got an email today. Someone tried to reset my facebook password. I closed that account a while ago. Apparently it is still active even though it is closed. It was an official facebookmail.com email.

09:59 <r0ni> i always forget how annoying it is to get a system going

11:52 <farkuhar> r0ni: according to https://lists.crux.nu/pipermail/crux/2023-May/007311.html the python bindings have been incorporated into libxml2, so there shouldn't be a need for a separate port python3-libxml2. Maybe setup-helper on the iso hasn't yet been updated to accommodate the change.

12:18 <remiliascarlet> SiFuh: Wait, where are his testicles?

12:26 <farkuhar> r0ni: as I suspected, there are still some outdated references to python3-libxml2 in the latest setup-helper. https://crux.nu/gitweb/?p=system/iso.git;a=blob;f=iso/bin/setup-helper;h=5845d7db9a9b2f6449e5bcaaa402ef75079b0d97;hb=6d2096009b9d88b503d390e36ac2b3d9ef2f2bd7

12:28 <farkuhar> unless jaeger is using a different tree to build the updated iso

12:32 <farkuhar> easy fix is to append another stanza at the end of setup-helper: if [ `is_installed python3-libxml2` ]; then remove_packages python3-libxml2 && inject_packages libxml2; fi

13:21 <jaeger> Same tree. I'll give it a look, thanks for the reports

18:35 <r0ni> farkuhar well lukily it don't install without a -f so it's basically a superficial error during install

18:37 <r0ni> i am having the same issue with libgphoto2 on intel, as I mentioned a few days ago with the missing "docupen.so" - which AFAIK is some odd 2005 pen shaped scanner device... surely whomever is in charge of that port has some extra software installed

19:23 <farkuhar> r0ni: for what it's worth, libgphoto2 on ArchLinux also installs docupen.so, but unlike the CRUX port theirs has a hard dependency on libgd.

19:27 <r0ni> hrm that may be the answer in this case

19:29 <farkuhar> r0ni: when I tested your claim about libgphoto2 a few days ago, it was the presence of libgd that prevented me from replicating your footprint mismatch. After removing libgd and testing again, I confirm your suspicion that docupen.so appears in the footprint because the maintainer had an extra port installed (libgd in this case).

19:29 <r0ni> only one way to find out, build libgd lol

19:31 <r0ni> yep, now installs and all is well with the default footprint

19:32 <farkuhar> without libgd around, your libgphoto2 build log should have presented a highly-visible warning near the beginning, mentioning docupen. But maybe this warning was not detailed enough to point you in the direction of libgd.

19:53 <r0ni> oh i do recall a big boxed something or other and if i looked in the build logs i'm sure it's there, but why on earth would anyone be concerned about this very oddly specific device that i didn't even know existed enough to warrant it being included by default in builds of libgphoto2. Just seems like a specific use case item, that the world need not be concerned about

19:54 <r0ni> unless you own a scanner pen. generally my hybrid printer does the scanning

19:54 <r0ni> just seems a odd edge use case item

20:06 <r0ni> I should note, I'm not partial either way to the library existing, but if it fails without libgd because of it, it should be in the deps. As it is now, it fails for anyone by default without libgd, and it can be assumed they've installed it, but that's not always the case it seems

20:14 <ukky> Same issue with dumb_runtime_dir from core collection. It has hard dependency in linux-pam, but there is no '^# Depends on: .*linux-pam.*$' line in Pkgfile

20:19 <SiFuh> ukky: Anything that is in core that a port depends on is never mentioned because it is core.

20:22 <ukky> SiFuh: Well, my system now runs without PAM, i.e. no linux-pam from core collection.

20:22 <SiFuh> I am aware but linux-pam is part of core and therefore you will not be informed of any ports that require it from a Pkgfile.

20:23 <SiFuh> I think linux-pam should be dumped

20:26 <ukky> There are a few ports in core and opt that require linux-pam, I had to recompile them without PAM support.

20:26 <SiFuh> Kind of like when I changed from openssl to libressl

20:27 <SiFuh> https://gitlab.com/SiFuh/unmaintained/-/tree/master/libressl

20:28 <SiFuh> I did end up testing it on a fully fledged CRUX system. I think the biggest issues were with RUST and some dumb port that starts with n I think that firefox needed

20:29 <SiFuh> nodejs

20:34 <ukky> Was it just a test, to use libressl instead of openssl? Or, some other reason?

20:34 <SiFuh> libressl is more trusted code

20:34 <SiFuh> And no I used it for over a year

20:40 <SiFuh> https://www.libressl.org/

20:40 <SiFuh> Pretty much says it all

20:45 <ukky> openssl was never on my list of things to get rid off. Always used openssl as a reference to check whether my AES and RSA code works properly.

20:50 <SiFuh> OpenSSL is a mess

20:51 <SiFuh> This is why libressl was forked from it

20:55 <ukky> Maybe I should add libressl on my TODO list. But I have to switch to mdev first, then switch to udhcpc, then develop SYSROOT cross-compilation for CRUX.

21:00 <SiFuh> I like clean code

21:18 <ukky> Unrelated. How do I protect/reject files in /usr/etc? I added 'INSTALL ^usr/etc.*$ NO' and 'UPGRADE ^usr/etc.*$ NO rules to pkgadd.conf, but files are not placed in /var/lib/pkg/rejected, they are just ignored

21:23 <farkuhar> ukky: what's wrong with /usr/etc? jue referred us to this section of the handbook that explicitly condones it. https://crux.nu/Main/Handbook3-7#ntoc43

21:26 <SiFuh> https://rense.com/general97/dont-blow-your-horn.php

21:26 <SiFuh> Heh

21:26 <farkuhar> Maybe ukky is confused about how a file ends up in /var/lib/pkg/rejected. It's never the result of a pkgadd.conf NO rule, but instead it requires a conflict between the target filesystem and the package contents.

21:27 <ukky> Nothing wrong with /usr/etc. It is my intent to install config files into /usr/etc. My isse is that when I change some file, say /usr/etc/mdev.conf, I would like to keep that file unmodified upon install/update.

21:28 <ukky> In other words, I need pkgadd to reject /usr/etc/mdev.conf if it exists.

21:29 <farkuhar> Well if you want to install config files into /usr/etc when the package is first added, then delete the rule 'INSTALL ^usr/etc.*$ NO'. The UPGRADE rule can be kept.

21:32 <ukky> I tried to keep only 'UPGRADE ^usr/etc.*$ NO' but it seems like the config file was overwritten anyway. I will try again, with 'INSTALL' rule removed.

21:33 <farkuhar> The rules that appear later in pkgadd.conf will override the earlier rules. Make sure you don't have a later rule that matches a less-restrictive pattern like 'UPGRADE ^usr/.* YES'

21:37 <ukky> Removing INSTALL works: [pkgadd: rejecting usr/etc/mdev.conf, keeping existing version]

21:37 <ukky> farkuhar: thanks