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<remiliascarlet>
SiFuh: My daily driver is still Artix, because I still have yet to compile a couple more packages to Crux before I can comfortably switch. I really hope I finally complete soon, because Arch-based distro's have recently been catering to new Linux users, so they're been taking away freedoms and dumbing down even Arch proper because of that.
<remiliascarlet>
I use OpenBSD on servers, and it's wonderful. But on desktops, not so much. Because so many programs are either outdated, or just not there at all. I tried to compile LLVM version 16, because OpenBSD still ships with LLVM 13, and I can't get it compiled no matter what.
<remiliascarlet>
And I know I can't ask anything on OpenBSD's IRC or mailing list, because the community is one massive echo chamber. Only 1 person there is actually helpful.
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<joe9>
remiliascarlet: OpenBSD is slow to incorporate changes but the changes end up being well thought out and engineered, imho. Worth the wait.
<SiFuh>
joe9: Agree 100%
<farkuhar>
I always get bitten by this: {pkg,httpup}-repgen both create a full index of $PWD when called with no arguments, but if you pass one argument, pkg-repgen will interpret it as a package name, while httpup-repgen will interpret it as a directory. I wonder if there's any demand for more consistency in the argument parsing by these two commands.
<joe9>
whatis the proper shutdown command in CRUX? halt and shutdown -h now are not syncing the disk.
<joe9>
poweroff?
<farkuhar>
joe9: shutdown -h -P now
<joe9>
What do I do to get a shell on the serial console? I have the below in syslinux.cfg:
<joe9>
SERIAL 0 115200 APPEND root=/dev/vda2 rw quiet console=tty0 console=ttyS0,115200
<SiFuh>
Not sure, always just typed that since 1999 ;-)
<SiFuh>
Although some distros complain when i use -p
<SiFuh>
joe9: how's the speed? Acceptable, bearable or too slow?
<joe9>
SiFuh: no issues with speed. I just let the kernel compile run while I went through my day.
<joe9>
I am more comfortable using CRUX over alpine.
<joe9>
so, that makes up for it.
<SiFuh>
Nice.
<SiFuh>
I think CRUX is the closest Linux distro to OpenBSD out there.
<SiFuh>
Not security wise though.
<joe9>
I created an user with useradd. But, it does not let me login with that user. I can su to that user just fine.
<SiFuh>
Password?
<joe9>
It says 'Login incorrect'
<joe9>
I set the password with passwd user
<SiFuh>
Has a home directory?
<joe9>
sorry, wrong info.
<joe9>
it works fine. I just did the passwd again and it works fine.
<joe9>
Sep 11 13:13:47 crux sshd: sshd: no hostkeys available -- exiting.^M
<joe9>
I did: ssh-keygen -A # and that did not help.
<farkuhar>
OpenBSD was my daily driver when they gave sndio the ability to use different cards for playback and recording (env vars AUDIOPLAYDEVICE and AUDIORECDEVICE, respectively). I remember being so excited to recompile the base system and take advantage of that feature, rather than having to drive my USB speakers through their 3.5mm aux input.
<farkuhar>
now I've returned to using sndio as the audio backend for Firefox, but on Linux I can only get the AUDIODEVICE env var to be respected. Oh well, not much videoconferencing going on these days, compared to 2020.
<SiFuh>
I prefer to video conferencing on the phone actually
<SiFuh>
I can move it to some dark corner and lay it down and ignore the fsckers ;-)
<farkuhar>
hot-plugging the USB speakers is actually a typical use-case for udev. I would set up a udev rule that redefines AUDIODEVICE in /var/lib/sndio.params whenever the speakers are connected or disconnected, and then have /usr/share/applications/firefox.desktop source that file before launching the actual browser.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: here we use /etc/hotplug/attach
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<farkuhar>
SiFuh: thanks, I'll remember that path when I get some spare hardware that can be devoted to OpenBSD.
<SiFuh>
Mine runs pkill -HUP sndiod the moment I plug in a USB bluetooth adapter.
<SiFuh>
My sndiod flags are a bit out of the norm though. sndiod_flags=-s default -m play,mon -s mon -f rsnd/0 -F rsnd/1 -r 43200 -b 2160
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<jaeger>
joe9: ssh host keys are created by the /etc/rc.d/sshd script the first time you start it. So if you haven't already, add sshd to the SERVICES array in /etc/rc.conf and start it
<remiliascarlet>
joe9: True, but it doesn't help if you need to get something working now, which every other OS already does, but OpenBSD doesn't.
<remiliascarlet>
I always memed about this same thing when it comes to PHP versions on Debian and CentOS.
<remiliascarlet>
Debian 12 finally moved up to PHP 8.2 after having been a laughing stock for sticking with PHP 7.4 in Debian 11, despite PHP 8.0 having been released before Debian 11. Watch them stick to PHP 8.2 as PHP 8.3 comes out this November.
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: I'd consider the developers of PHP 7.4 a laughing stock myself. If their code is so outdated by only a few version bumps then something must be seriously wrong with their skills
<remiliascarlet>
But whether it be Debian or OpenBSD, while stability is important for sure, there's a certain point where stability becomes stagnation.
<remiliascarlet>
SiFuh: I love PHP, because it pays my bills fixing broken code other people made.
<SiFuh>
Hahahaha, I've had a job like that before
<SiFuh>
That was a long time ago though. PHP 5 ;-)
<remiliascarlet>
And by "broken code" I mean both, version upgrades, and previous devs using a bloated Framework, and "deprecated", "warning", and "undefined" errors the previous devs didn't even bother fixing.
<remiliascarlet>
I never understood why so many PHP devs keep using a framework like Laravel, CakePHP, or whatever other framework, it's like asking for breaking code in the future.
<remiliascarlet>
Besides, PHP by itself is already a framework, so now you have a framework inside of a framework.
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: Is that guy shouting at Lennart Poettering in the cartoon? :-P
<remiliascarlet>
All fictional characters.
<SiFuh>
Lennart Poettering is a fiction
<remiliascarlet>
Lennart Poopering is well known for being the anti-KISS, so that wouldn't make sense.
<SiFuh>
Anyone who brags about Windows must be a paedo
<remiliascarlet>
I don't take the word "paedo" or "pedo" seriously these days.
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<SiFuh>
Too many around
<remiliascarlet>
Every single person who calls everything and everyone "pedophile" is very likely an actual pedophile themselves. I've seen it happening so many times before, it's just a pattern with 100% accuracy.
<SiFuh>
Thanks.... not
<joe9>
jaeger: SiFuh: https://dpaste.org/WYv8j/raw . I see the keys in /etc/ssh/ . It seems libcrypto has issues loading them though..
<SiFuh>
joe9: run revdep
<joe9>
ok, thanks.
<SiFuh>
If you have done any port updates you might need to recompile some stuff. Revdep shows you what might be broken.
<joe9>
revdep did not return anything.
<joe9>
I did not compile anything after the install.
<joe9>
other than the kernel.
<joe9>
I am following the Installation handbook.
<SiFuh>
You got the right crypto stuff compiled in the kernel?
<joe9>
I just used the default kernel .config that came packaged.
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<jaeger>
Anything else in the syslog? That "error in libcrypto" from sshd doesn't say much
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<SiFuh>
Quick google search on one says rebuild ssh from source
<joe9>
by syslog, do you mean /var/log/messages? nothing in the messages file.
<SiFuh>
I reckon it is kernel. There is my 2 cents ;-)
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<joe9>
or, pam...
<ukky>
joe9: what exactly did you recompile besides kernel?
<joe9>
nothing, just the kernel.
<ukky>
imho, then it is just bad kernel. SSH should work as is from install ISO
<joe9>
SiFuh: that kernel configuration that you posted. Is that what you are using?
<joe9>
Either way, the packaged kernel config should work with this out of the box, correct?
<joe9>
else, it is a bug(?) in the install scripts.
<SiFuh>
joe9: Yes. It is also on some of the CD's under kernel/contrib. It is highly modular to support as much as possible but still being quite small in size. Unfortunately takes forever to build.
<SiFuh>
I designed it for people who wish to compile something straight away and boot without issues then check what modules they need to be able to make a more compact kernel if they choose.
<SiFuh>
Or as I do, I just run it as is. Mostly newbies use it though and me ;-)
<SiFuh>
If you see the following types of errors when running the nft command it means that your kernel configuration is missing either nftables support (the first error) or some nftables module (the second error):
<ukky>
SiFuh: sold. Adding 'switch from iptables to nftables' to my TODO list
<joe9>
SiFuh: looks like I am better off using the kernel config you posted than having to deal with this kind of stuff.
<SiFuh>
joe9: Mine works, it just takes longer to compile.
<joe9>
ok, thanks.
<SiFuh>
Once you have a running system you can do lsmod to see what you need and compile your own
<joe9>
is there an alternative to wget that is in crux's core?
<joe9>
curl?
<SiFuh>
curl is default in core
<SiFuh>
Also there is aria2c if you compile it
<joe9>
ok, thanks. running the modular kernel build.
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<joe9>
do you do prt-get sysup after installation? or, is it too much of a nuisance?
<SiFuh>
Both, either up to you
<lavaball>
what is this config_connector? do i need it?
<ukky>
lavaball: My config has it enabled. I never tried to disable it. I'd say it is not required.
<ukky>
lavaball: It seems Docker requires it.
<lavaball>
and with that it's off.
<lavaball>
thanks.
<lavaball>
how can i make alpine? they load everything onto a ramdisk at boot and any changes must be explicitly saved to disk.
<ukky>
lavaball: is your goal just to compile alpine, or change Pkgfile then compile?
<lavaball>
i want to make my own from scratch.
<lavaball>
well, not really. i just want to know how it works.
<lavaball>
i mean i understand the basics, but i don't know how they actually do it. like make a big ramfs and just copy everything on it and then change root like with from initramfs to / ?
<ukky>
I thought we are talking about alpine as mail user agent... What is Alpine then?
<lavaball>
linux distro. they have some special install where it's all just in ram and you just save the config files on disk.
<ukky>
Take a look at git://crux.nu/system/iso.git
<lavaball>
nice.
<lavaball>
though i can't really update it remotely.
<ukky>
try ssh://git@crux.nu/system/iso.git
<ukky>
lavaball: it depends on what your objective is, but it might be easier to just create small initramfs with static busybox and launch a busybox shell
<lavaball>
hm. okay.
<lavaball>
i haevn't done initramfs yet. but i've now selected my first modules!
<ukky>
beware that you need all kernel modules to be either compiled-in or copied into initramfs if they are required before real root is mounted, especially graphics, filesystems, and partitions
<lavaball>
thanks.
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<joe9>
Does anyone have an Oracle Java port?
<joe9>
there is this: rsync -aqz crux.nu::ports/crux-3.7/opt/jdk8-bin/ jdk8-bin
<SiFuh>
Many jdk ports
<SiFuh>
Find one you want or make one you want.
<SiFuh>
Making your own personal ports in CRUX is actually super easy
<SiFuh>
You don't even need a repo
<joe9>
I had a crux repo a decade ago.
<joe9>
joe7 or joe9, one of those nicks.
<joe9>
I had a linuxcnc running on crux.
<SiFuh>
I don't know what that is
<SiFuh>
Okay, I now know what that is
<joe9>
but, I have mostly swapped out crux. discovering most of it again.
<joe9>
is there a sample X11 app in core/opt?
<joe9>
such as xclock or suchc.
<joe9>
got it, xfontsel.
<ukky>
joe9: I have Pkgfile for xclock if you need one
<SiFuh>
xorg apps are under ports/xorg
<joe9>
got it, thanks.
<farkuhar>
joe9: your crux repo is still listed on the unofficial portdb. It got removed from the official portdb due to all the sync failures (which affected all sites hosted at crux.ster.zone)
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Hah! I knew I recognized it
<ukky>
Does CRUX run X server as root, or as non-privileged user by default? What does this display for you, if you use X: ps aux | grep -v grep | grep '\b\(X\|Xorg\)\b'
<SiFuh>
I always saw it as root
<SiFuh>
Oh wait, I got a maching running CRUX with Xorg
<SiFuh>
It is root
<ukky>
SiFuh: I would never expect you running X as root, since you are well aware about security
<SiFuh>
It is a gaming maching
<SiFuh>
I rephrase. It is a flight simulator
<ukky>
Maybe that's okay for secondary system then. It is much easier to run X as root
<SiFuh>
It is rarely online
<SiFuh>
ukky: I am not a security expert by the way,
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<SiFuh>
Those days died long ago
<farkuhar>
not a security expert, just paranoid enough to set up a 4096-character password for a mailing list that you don't even post to.
<SiFuh>
The moment I said that the Mi5 IDF FSB CIA ASIC are swarming in e
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: It is normal and not paranoia
<SiFuh>
Actually most of my passwords are just 32 characters full ASCII
<farkuhar>
sounds like you're stretching the definition of "normal", then
<SiFuh>
Sounds like you want retard to be normal ;-)
<SiFuh>
Nah, just always been that way. Head of security in 2001 until 2005 old school stuff just sticks.
<farkuhar>
by "old school stuff" do you mean securing mainframes?
<SiFuh>
Close enough
<SiFuh>
I managed the Universities network. I use to watch it like a hawk. No Wi-Fi yet so everything was on the wire
<SiFuh>
SSL wasn't commonly used. It was more of an alternative. And almost always was configured so badly most people used non-ssl connections
<SiFuh>
I use to watch the staff log in and configure their CISCO router on the fly. Then I'd print it and pin on the board near the entrance
<farkuhar>
Heh, telnet was still the most common way to login at my University's server back in 2001.
<SiFuh>
Most passwords were between 6 to 8 characters and they were just stupid like --> passwd
<SiFuh>
Yeah that is a fact
<SiFuh>
Man in the middle with ettercap and all telnet sessions were just there live for you to watch
<SiFuh>
Actually, there was one guy. Stupid as shit. He had the job to configure the routers. I remember one day watching him over and over and over to try to do a particular command. I just echoed "this is the command ,,,," to his terminal just to avoid the suffering of watching him try
<SiFuh>
We didn't have google we had web ferret
<farkuhar>
It's surprising that jue didn't think to put a code path leading to --with-qt=no in his latest gnuplot commits. There are legitimate use-cases that are satisfied by building gnuplot with no support for interactive graphical output.
<farkuhar>
I'd suggest inserting the line [ "$PKGMK_GNUPLOT" ] || PKGMK_GNUPLOT='--with-qt=no' right after the two prt-get isinst tests.
<SiFuh>
I have a question for you. How is that you are able to type so long comments/replies/questions with rarely a spelling mistake?
<farkuhar>
I question that myself. I go back and forth between two different keyboard layouts (qwerty and dvorak) throughout my day, so I shouldn't have the muscle memory that I do.
<SiFuh>
I go between RU/TH/VN and EN but my fingers just go blurrrr sometimes. I can't really re-read what I wrote because I use a small terminal for IRSSI but at the same time. My keyboards are constantly dropping characters as I type depending on the moon or the batter life.
<SiFuh>
You see? A Y is missing. Fucking keyboards
<farkuhar>
Battery life, heh. The battery in my HP laptop just died, and it's too old to bother buying a new battery for it.
<SiFuh>
They make good servers
<SiFuh>
Close, shove in a corner and boot it
<SiFuh>
Wow, I ahve 14 days alone. Had to change the locks. Wife gave her parents the keys to my house
<SiFuh>
Did you see the ahve? That wasn't me. That was the keyboard
<farkuhar>
Try to build opt/gnuplot in a clean container, and see if it fails due to missing Qt crap. The configure script is too stupid to auto-detect the lack of Qt, it has to be told explicitly --with-qt=no.
<SiFuh>
On Telegram. I can type an entire sentence and 19 letters are missing.
<jaeger>
joe9: your repo is still listed in the portdb... but based on that comment I take it it's NOT maintained currently. If you have no objections I'll remove it to avoid confusion. Of course I'll readd it later if you start it up again.
<SiFuh>
re-add*
<jaeger>
(ah, I see farkuhar made a similar comment, catching up)
<SiFuh>
Does it even still exist because if not, it should be obliterated
<jaeger>
SiFuh: Both are valid. English sucks.
<SiFuh>
English is the prostitute of all languages
<jaeger>
Sort of both. crux.ster.zone is dead as far as I know but the unofficial portdb still has metadata from successful syncs in the past.
<SiFuh>
Although it can be funny sometimes. "Hi, I want to change my shocks, they bounce like a prostitutes bed". 3 second pause then everyone starts laughing