<fosskers>
I'm currently not considering a target for testing my libs, since I don't recall even being able to get it running properly with QL.
<fosskers>
Arch supplies a first-class CLISP package, but for whom I don't know.
<phoe>
gcl has some recent activity, but I have no idea how useful it is for daily use.
<fosskers>
It currently doesn't compile on my machine
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<aeth>
CLISP is (1) not dead because it gets git commits but (2) not really alive either because its last official release is going on 14 years in 5 days (2010-07-07)
<aeth>
distros generally just pick some random git commit to build from
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<ixelp>
PKGBUILD · main · Arch Linux / Packaging / Packages / clisp · GitLab
<aeth>
its main purpose seems to be to bootstrap other Common Lisps, at least as long as they don't make another release and as long as they're missing a bunch of things every other implementation has, particularly around floating point
<aeth>
though 10% float-features does kinda confirm that the floating point support is pretty bad (unless you want arbitrary-precision long-float, which is kind of cool)
<aeth>
it's also missing trivial-package-local-nicknames support and in general is probably going to break so many newer libraries
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<fosskers>
I didn't realise that cross-impl support was so poor.
<aeth>
it's more than Common Lisp is still an evolving language despite what the lack of standards updates may imply, so lacking things like package local nicknames, while very small changes, will break libraries that assume that "everyone" can use it now
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<fosskers>
Guilty. I didn't even know they weren't universal.
<aeth>
though if you installed a thousand libraries (assuming they were compatible with each other), the combination of it would probably only run on SBCL
<aeth>
but unless they use sb-foo packages and #+sbcl stuff, etc., etc., then in theory implementations that get updates (and that's the key part) could eventually support it
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<fosskers>
I notice GCL isn't even on that chart
<aeth>
the "eye" in the upper right says "hide unmaintained implementations" when you mouse over it
<aeth>
many more show up but then the support gets much worse
<aeth>
in theory a new CLISP version could be released tomorrow (well, eventually, anyway) with support for the missing features... the others require project necromancy, and if closed source maybe even waiting for copyrights to expire (100 or so years)
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<phoe>
clisp is the least dead of them all, imo
<phoe>
it requires a release, that's all
<phoe>
at least from my POV
<aeth>
it is the least dead of the dead, yes, but it's not hidden by portability.cl
<fosskers>
Ah I had fonts turned off and didn't see the eye
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<fosskers>
Found the clisp repo. It's creeping along with gradual commits.
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<skin>
Really? I thought it wasn't used much or developed. That's interesting.
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<mon_key_phn>
On SBCL, when encoutering package symbol name conflicts what does "RESOLVE-CONFLICT" mean in the debugger?
<beach>
The possible resolutions are explained for each function, like IMPORT, EXPORT, USE-PACKAGE, etc.
<bike>
it's the name of a restart you can use to resolve the conflict.
<beach>
You will be asked which of at least two possibilities you would like.
<beach>
And, yes, it is a restart.
<mon_key_phn>
OK, so the difference between KEEP-OLD/KEEP-NEW and RESOLVE-CONFLICT is that the latter is a also choices + a restart?
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<mon_key_phn>
@beach Thnx by the way.
<beach>
Sure.
<beach>
I don't think the KEEP-OLD/KEEP-NEW choice is handled by a restart.
<mon_key_phn>
@beach deciding whether to push a feature request for a slightly more informative restart prompt for RESOLVE-CONFLICT to Stas and the gang... :)
<beach>
I see.
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<mon_key_phn>
@beach KEEP-OLD/KEEP-NEW appear under the "Restarts" heading in slime's sldb
<beach>
Oh, OK.
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<beach>
While you are at it, try to get them to do error messages better than "NIL is not of type INTEGER" (Yes, I know that!) :)
<mon_key_phn>
hence the feature request mullings
<mon_key_phn>
@beach "NIL is not of type INTEGER" always makes me rage chuckle
<beach>
I understand.
<dlowe>
have you tried making NIL an integer? That should fix the problem
<mon_key_phn>
would be fun to have a --with-snarky-prompts compiler flag for the less pedantic of us.
<mon_key_phn>
"have you tried making NIL an integer" being an excellent prospect for sufficiently snarky :)
<dlowe>
It's all in love
<beach>
We frequently see people here who want to turn NIL into a list: (defun add-to-list (element list) (push element list)) and then (add-to-list 234 nil).
<beach>
Er, NIL into a CONS I mean.
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<Th30n`>
Hey, what's the recommended CSV reading/writing library?
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<mon_key_phn>
@beach "bug" report filed along with a "NIL of type FOO" complaint for good measure :)
<beach>
Heh, thanks!
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<mon_key_`>
Too be fair, terse and pedantic prompts are generally preffered, and SBCL does a pretty good job of mainting a good balance with this. In the aggregate, it certainly makes sense to keep the string sizes small for core comopressions and image dumps because it can potentially make shell script executables and command line apps smaller and faster...
<pranav>
Th30n`: I've used cl-csv for reading small CSV files. Does cl-csv fit your usecase?
<Th30n`>
pranav: Thanks, IDK I'll check it out. I basically have couple of CSVs large ~60MB. Naturally, non-comma delimited etc.
<pranav>
cl-csv is also recommended on Awesome-CL with a star (meaning that it's widely used/"community standard").
<Th30n`>
Anyways, I gotta go. I'll try just counting parsed rows, and see how fast it is. Sometime later today, though.
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<dbotton>
any one know of a good common lisp pretty print for html?
<yitzi>
pranav: The stars on Awesome-CL are not based on any kind of usage metrics or "community standard". They are just opinions of the maintainers of that list.
<yitzi>
There are plenty of incorrect statements on that list. Its a useful list, but I wouldn't take it as more than a suggestion.
<pranav>
yitzi: Thanks for the reminder. I did look up their descriptions of star and thumbs up in the docs, and put quotes around "community standard" because it seemed quite a strong claim.
<yitzi>
Sure thing.
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<Krystof>
mon_key_`: resolve-conflict allows interactive resolution of the symbol conflict.
<Krystof>
for example: at the sbcl repl in a freshly-started lisp:
<Krystof>
Select a symbol to be made accessible in package COMMON-LISP-USER:
<Krystof>
<Krystof>
1. SB-DI::TLS-INDEX
<Krystof>
Enter an integer (between 1 and 2):
<Krystof>
now, where this gets awkward is that there's no good protocol for environments implementing their own repl to manage interactive input from restart functions
<Krystof>
so you might find that if you do this under e.g. slime, behaviour is not great
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<Gleefre>
Isn't that a job for *query-io*?
<Gleefre>
> The value of *query-io*, called query I/O, is a bidirectional stream to be used when asking questions of the user. The question should be output to this stream, and the answer read from it.
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<Gleefre>
Although it seems that slime doesn't use it in any interesting way.
<Krystof>
right
<Krystof>
I once implemented the Lisp side of (effectively) restart presentation types
<Krystof>
so that this restart could say that it wanted arguments of type ((member sb-di::tls-index sb-vm::tls-index)), and clients could request that input in whataver way was most appropriate
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<yottabyte>
I have a system-index.txt file alongside my .asd file, what is that purpose of that? should I gitignore it?
<mon_key_`>
@Krystof Thank you for the explanation. I understand that slime can't reasonably accomodate all use cases. My complaint is that on SBCL the RESOLVE-CONFLICT prompt is "Resolve Conflict" which is not particularly informative relative to the KEEP-OLD and KEEP-NEW prompts.
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<mrcom>
General opinion Q: How useful do you actually find documentation strings to be? Do you like full-blown this-is-how-to-use-it, or short two or three sentences?
<dlowe>
Depends. If you have seperately written documentation (my preference), short two or three sentences, noting which argument does what
<dlowe>
if you're generating documentation from your code, then it needs to be completely described
<paulapatience>
I like long documentation strings.
<paulapatience>
It's convenient to be able to see the documentation directly within SLIME/Sly
<paulapatience>
Versus separate documentation, that is
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<dlowe>
Ask not the #commonlisp users for advice, for they will say both no and yes
<mrcom>
Sometimes in a single sentence :)
<mrcom>
Which is actually most useful. I'll just break rigid rules anyway.
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<edgar-rft>
I don't consider something generated from docstrings as "documentation" at all. Documentation should give the idea of the big picture, how everything connects to each other and how things are intended to work together. Docstrings can't provide that.
<edgar-rft>
Docstrings *are* useful to describe what a single function or variable is intended to do, but not to describe the entire program.
<bike>
usig both together works pretty well, i'd say