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<thuna`>
What is the syntax type of characters not specified by the standard syntax? Constituent or invalid?
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<bike>
i don't believe it's defined, but i can't imagine any implementation would make every other character invalid.
<bike>
they're not all going to be the same type. carriage return and linebreak are probably whitespace, for instance
<bike>
er, page break i meant
<thuna`>
I guess a decent-ish heuristic would be if the character is graphic or not
<thuna`>
Even though that misses space, that can be special-cased
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<thuna`>
Huh... why doesn't GET-DISPATCH-MACRO-CHARACTER return NON-TERMINATING-P? Is there any way to query for it at all? I guess you could interpret GET-MACRO-CHARACTER as working for disp-char as well...
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<mrcom>
"#\Formfeed" isn't universal.
<mrcom>
Just ran into that this morning (clasp)
<yitzi>
You mean the character name?
<mrcom>
Yeah. The code works.
<paulapatience>
Very few of those are universal
<yitzi>
There is a very limited set of standard character names
<CrashTestDummy>
anyone know how to retrieve the value of :version for a system that has been loaded via asdf? I want to output the version number when the user runs my program and I want to only have the version number defined in one place to avoid having it defined in multiple places and getting out of sync. I know how to retrieve my system by doing "(asdf:find-system :my-system)" but once I have the system I don't know how to specifically
<CrashTestDummy>
get the :version value or any of the values associated with the system for that matter.
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<CrashTestDummy>
Thank you paulapatience! That worked, you are my hero!
<paulapatience>
You're welcome
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<CrashTestDummy>
do you know how I can retrieve the other data associated with a system such as :maintainer, :author, etc?
<CrashTestDummy>
and why (asdf:find-component (asdf:find-system :my-system) :version) returns nil? (I realize I can use the code you supplied but I am curious because I want a more generic way to pull the information)
<beach>
I don't think :VERSION is a "component" in the ASDF terminology.
<paulapatience>
I have no idea. I just tried autocompleting promising functions until it gave what you were asking for.
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<CrashTestDummy>
ok paulapatience
<CrashTestDummy>
thanks beach, I think you may have a point there
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<CrashTestDummy>
I guess I don't understand how to specify :version as a "path" in the ASDF terminology
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<paulapatience>
Maybe inspect the component object, maybe there are slots you can query
<CrashTestDummy>
paulapatience, I was trying to do that but pprint'ing and princ'ing the system object do not return anything other than #<ASDF/SYSTEM:SYSTEM "my-system">. Is there perhaps another way to inspect the component object?
<CrashTestDummy>
ah ok, I will take a look at that
<beach>
You can use the SLIME inspector or (better) Clouseau.
<beach>
CrashTestDummy: Things like the version are are kept in slots of the object representing the system, so they are not part of any "path".
<beach>
CrashTestDummy: You have to retrieve them using the slot accessor.
<CrashTestDummy>
beach, didn't know about Clouseau - will check that out, though I am assuming it runs inside Emacs. Right at the moment I am using VSCode with the Alive plugin. Either way, I will still check it out :)
<beach>
Clouseau is a CLIM application written in Common Lisp, so it doesn't run "inside Emacs" in that sense.
<CrashTestDummy>
beach, that makes sense to me about how to are saying to retrieve the information from the slot accessors... I didn't realize CLOS was being used and assumed it was like a simple associative list or something. Thank you, I will look into that.
<beach>
CrashTestDummy: I see. Most modern Common Lisp applications use CLOS a lot.
<CrashTestDummy>
beach, ah, unfortunately I don't think CLIM works on Windows which is where I am working
* beach
is always surprised to learn that people are still using Windows.
<CrashTestDummy>
beach: lol
<CrashTestDummy>
I love/hate it
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<rainthree>
CrashTestDummy: CLIM works fine on Windows
<CrashTestDummy>
rainthree: that looks interesting. Are you successfully using CLIM on Windows yourself?
<rainthree>
yes
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<rainthree>
I have made CLIM interfaces for my own tools, also I use Clouseau to inspect stuff when I debug
<rainthree>
*graphical interfaces
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<CrashTestDummy>
rainthree: that's exciting. Last time I looked I think I read CLIM on Windows was still beta/experimental - is it still considered beta?
<rainthree>
yes but practically when I compare it with the other options which are "not beta", such as the web mess... I get the job done with it, and much faster, and that's what I care about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc5Np9OqDHU 'Why We Should Stop Using JavaScript According to Douglas Crockford'
<ixelp>
Why We Should Stop Using JavaScript According to Douglas Crockford (Inventor of JSON) - YouTube
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<CrashTestDummy>
rainthree: Good video. Do you know if CLIM supports graphics acceleration? I need it for one of my projects which is why I thought I would be stuck writting it in C#, Java, or using CSS in an Electron app.
<CrashTestDummy>
rainthree: checking out those additional videos now
<CrashTestDummy>
rainthree: oh boy, on Windows CLIM relies on rendering in a web browser?
<rainthree>
no
<rainthree>
if it would, it would replace web pages, which would be nice
<rainthree>
I am not sure about the graphics acceleration support and how it could be integrated with CLIM. I have not done graphics/games so I don't know much about the subject
<rainthree>
the project that needs graphics acceleration, what is it about?
<CrashTestDummy>
rainthree: It is a project to help people read text on their computer screen. The idea is to help people with reading issues (like dislexia or poor vision) but also to help people with "normal" reading (good vision, and "normal" neurology when it comes to reading) read more quickly.
<rainthree>
so other than fonts, which are fully supported by CLIM, what does the project need
<beach>
rainthree: I am impressed that you seem to be following scymtym's progress this closely. What is your interest in his work?
<CrashTestDummy>
rainthree: it needs accelerated graphics in order to be able to animate a "pacer" (which in the simple case could be a simple rectangle that is filled in with color) smoothly. The pacer would move beneath (or above) the line of text that the person is currently reading to help guide the user's eyes. I have tried doing this animation using the CPU but it is tricky to get it to animate smoothly and it uses up a lot of CPU.
<CrashTestDummy>
Using GPU acceleration makes the animation very smooth and easy to accomplish and uses very little of the CPU and even less of the CPU.
<CrashTestDummy>
rainthree: *very little of the GPU and even less of the CPU.
<rainthree>
beach: my highest interest is SICL
<beach>
Oh, I see.
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<CrashTestDummy>
rainthree: just running (CLIM-DEMO:DEMODEMO) where it brings up the list of demo's causing my SBCL.exe to use 100% of one of my cores permanently. I have not even launched one of the specific examples at this point. Does one of your cores get pegged at 100% whenever you use CLIM on Windows?
<CrashTestDummy>
rainthree: maybe I should reboot my computer...
<rainthree>
no
<rainthree>
yes I remember it has this bug. I was never worried by it because even on my older laptop it would still work well enough
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<rainthree>
and because I have the confidence that it won't be hard to fix this bug
<CrashTestDummy>
rainthree: so you are saying it always uses 100% CPU?
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<rainthree>
a high percentage, yeah
<CrashTestDummy>
rainthree: Ok :( When you say that you are confident it won't be hard to fix this bug... are you a contributor to the CLIM project?
<beach>
CrashTestDummy: McCLIM (the freely available implementation of the CLIM II specification) is actively maintained by several people.
<CrashTestDummy>
rainthree: weirdly, whenever I click on one of the specific demo's (in the main demo window) I see a new window get launched for that specific demo but I am unable to bring it up on my screen. It is as though the window has an entry in the taskbar but the window itself is invisible. Do you also experience that?
<CrashTestDummy>
beach: But is it well supported on Windows?
<rainthree>
CrashTestDummy: no I don't experience that. make sure you use the newest version from codeberg not from github https://codeberg.org/McCLIM/McCLIM
<ixelp>
McCLIM/McCLIM: An implementation of the Common Lisp Interface Manager, version II. - Codeberg.org
<beach>
CrashTestDummy: I don't know, since I have no interest in Windows whatsoever.
<beach>
CrashTestDummy: You can ask in the #clim channel if you are interested.
<CrashTestDummy>
rainthree: hrmmm, (ql:quickload :clim-examples) specifically loads McCLIM? Not another CLIM implementation, right?
<CrashTestDummy>
beach: Good point, I will have to hit up the #CLIM channel
<beach>
CrashTestDummy: It does. There is not really any other implementation available.
<CrashTestDummy>
beach: Ok
<rainthree>
CrashTestDummy: I am not a contributor but I can be. I have fixed bugs such as this one https://github.com/svetlyak40wt/asdf-just-done-bug/issues/1 which have been eluding for years. The secret to fixing that bug is that I used a better debugger from the free version of allegro CL if I remember well. This proves the importance of good debugging tools
<ixelp>
any fix? · Issue #1 · svetlyak40wt/asdf-just-done-bug · GitHub
<rainthree>
*had been.
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<rainthree>
But even that allegro CL debugger, is junk compared to the one in SICL (coming soon)
<rainthree>
(of course after I fixed that bug in asdf I understood the whole package-inferred-system approach is wrong at its roots. I also understood that asdf is not as clean as I had thought)
<CrashTestDummy>
rainthree: I will have to try to figure out which version of McCLIM QuickLisp actually loaded, but first I will reboot just to make sure. That is awesome that you contributed to ASDF. OK, brb after rebooting.
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<CrashTestDummy>
rainthree: after rebooting I have the same weird issue with the windows of the individual demo's being invisible. I am on Windows 10. Are you also on Windows 10?
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<CrashTestDummy>
rainthree: If I tell XMing to use a single window then the individual demo's are actually visible but unfortunately they render incorrectly to the point of being unusable :(
<rainthree>
let's head to #clim. also, show some screenshots or give me remote access so that I can inspect the issue closer
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<rainthree>
it's unusable but at least you managed to run it in just a few minutes. It took me much longer learn how to run it
<CrashTestDummy>
rainthree: Ok, heading to #clim now.
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<younder>
beach: Windows is still necessary for some tasks. I can't find good CAD software for Linux. Also I hear the audio processing software does not measure up. Also games still run better on windows.
<younder>
Where Linux now reigns supreme is in the cloud. It never captured much of the desktop computer base from Windows or Mac.
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<younder>
For most people a OS is just a tool to run their favorite apps. Only Linux users really thinks it is the main thing.
<younder>
For the record just responding to something you said at 5 am this morning my time.
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<dbotton>
Common Lisp is my OS
<dbotton>
I take it with me everywhere
<dbotton>
It works the same on every machine I own and on the cloud
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<dbotton>
Even runs on my Chromebook local or remote
<dbotton>
It delivers on everything promised by Google and Oracle
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<younder>
Well the REPL can be used as a shell of sorts. I also user Bash however..
<younder>
s/user/use/
<dbotton>
CLOG has its own pseudo shell and a REPL
<dbotton>
:P
<younder>
Kinda like python and Jupyter
<dbotton>
Toys
<younder>
lol
<dbotton>
You can write python in lisp
<dbotton>
Oh it was done
<dbotton>
:P
<younder>
Yeah, let us grownups join the play. APL as a embedded language for ML on that GPU
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<dbotton>
We just jumped to quantum computing
<dbotton>
Why wait
<younder>
I actually studied quantum computing and it is not ready for prime time any time soon..
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<younder>
But by all means free us from NVIDIA ;)
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<dbotton>
Will be soon
<younder>
I won't bore you with the 200 million dollar budget of Mojo I guess..
<younder>
The $$$ are not in Lisp these days..
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<dbotton>
People put too much faith in money. I put it in people and tech (of course after religious stuff) Lisp has the right combo
<dbotton>
Will outlast the fads, and has
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<paulapatience>
rainthree: What is it that is wrong with the package-inferred approach, out of curiosity?
<rainthree>
many things: it mixes the concepts of systems and packages
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<younder>
To me it is the constant war of versions vs. rolling release. I like rolling releasing in a 'small' code-base like CL. Many are moving towards versioned ones.
<rainthree>
paulapatience: "beach I just remember that there was some ridiculous (to me) limitation that I couldn't accept. yitzi The idea of putting an entire package in one file is absurd. As is the idea that there is a one-to-one correspondance between packages and systems. Its just a terrible idea, imho.
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<rainthree>
paulapatience: and to make sense of the dependencies between the sourcefiles you'd have to manually crawl through the sourcefiles. It's like having a book without an index and without Contents
<paulapatience>
Well, that's why it has you import-from the dependencies
<younder>
To me that sounds like a Lisp program, but whatever
<younder>
Whatshamacallit, a tree walker
<paulapatience>
I don't mind having long files, so I didn't mind the requirement that a system be a package
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<CrashTestDummy>
rainthree: thank you for all of the help, I'm going afk
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<rainthree_>
CrashTestDummy: sure,np,catch you next time
<younder>
In every problem lies a program waiting to be written.. Luckily I can program. Love it in fact.
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<younder>
I guess I'd like a bit more of dbottom's love of programming and indomitable optimism. Perhaps in myself.
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<jackdaniel>
In every program lies a problem waiting to be discovered. Luckily I can start woodworking instead. Love it in fact :)
<jackdaniel>
and to rhyme that: I hate puzzles, that's why I'm solving them to have no more
<younder>
I smell a bit of acrid cynicism, Jack
<jackdaniel>
not really; it's more a flavor of contrarianess, or even more accurately - saying one thing and doing the opposite (I don't know English word for that)
<jackdaniel>
for example when someone describes a really bad situation as "wonderful"
<younder>
I guess I was hoping for a more positive spin on things. Not a regression in to ad-hominem attacks.
<jackdaniel>
antiphrasis
<jackdaniel>
ad-hominem? I'm describing what I've said, how could that be possible ad-hominem?
<younder>
Simple you attach the person thus reflecting from answering the actual problem.
<jackdaniel>
perhaps I'm just deprived of coffee, but I don't understand what you are saying
<jackdaniel>
I'm aware what "ad hominem" means, I just can't frame it in this context
<younder>
You are paraphrasing my words into something I never said. It felt personal
<jackdaniel>
sorry that it sounded that way; I was playing with words and jesting, not paraphrasing you
<jackdaniel>
for all I know you may be very proliferate programmer
<jackdaniel>
hum, to rephrase: I did not mean it that way; sorry.
<younder>
No worries.
<younder>
Truth be told I don't know a whole lot about you either apart from your contributions to McClim.
<jackdaniel>
actually it does support kerning, but for vertical metrices it is set to 0
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<beach>
Oh, right, my brother mentioned CAD software.
<jackdaniel>
metrics*
<yitzi>
Yeah, I meant vertical kerning.
<jackdaniel>
yes, and I mean, that we dos uperfluous (+ dy (vertical-kerning xxx))
<jackdaniel>
technically this could be used to add tracking with practically no code at all
<jackdaniel>
(tracking is increasing the distance between all glyphs by some fixed value if I recall correctly)
<rainthree>
there is no good software to do (Euclidean) Geometry in. geogebra and all the others, are not even at 0.01% of the potential. http://geometer.org/geometer/Geometry.pdf "The book contains about 500 illustrations that can be viewed with the geometer program." (geometer is also very old and limited)
<beach>
rainthree: I missed the context; are you suggesting a project?
<rainthree>
speaking of CAD software
<beach>
Ah, OK.
<rainthree>
sure it would be a good project. Without it, it is hard to learn geometry well
<rainthree>
and fast
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<rainthree>
_death would clog be good to make websites in it?
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<younder>
I've always been partial to Spivac's treatment in 'A comprehensive guide to differential geometry.' Volumes I and II should do. (There are 5)
<_death>
rainthree: possibly.. I've not used it enough to know
<rainthree>
younder: okay. I have only looked into some chapters of Spivac's Calculus
<splittist>
_death: mesmerizing
<younder>
Well that is a good start. Spivak's book on differential calculus on manifolds is a good intro to real analysis.
<younder>
It won't always be that hard. Most of it is just linear algebra.
<younder>
beach a smart woman like, say Hayley, is always welcome
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<rainthree>
younder: even the simplest topics if one goes deeper into them, will discover that they are quite elusive and not well understood (as it is commonly thought)
<younder>
You are intelligent I see. Yes that is always true
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<beach>
rainthree: I added an entry for "dynamic geometry program" and a one-line description taken from "Geometer".
<rainthree>
I am writing the paragraph
<beach>
Great!
<rainthree>
A geometry program
<rainthree>
There are a dozen of geometry programs around, such as GeoGebra, Geometry Expressions (which also features symbolic geometry, i.e. : automatic derivation of the algebraic formulas for various measures of the geometrical objects in the model), but they all lack flexibility and thus cannot be used efficiently.
<rainthree>
For example you cannot compose simple models to obtain a more complex model and then add a button that allows the user to construct that complex model as a primitive itself.
<rainthree>
geometer is an ancient and interesting program but was coded in C and the DSL it uses of course is not great... The author has manager to use it for creating more than 500 illustrations for important theorems:
<rainthree>
Such a program would be useful for all students, teachers, scientists, engineers, programmers who code software that has to do with geometry, and also researchers who want to discover new theorems
<beach>
rainthree: Nothing is ever negative in double-entry bookkeeping.
<younder>
Yeah, vaguely familiar with the term. You book incomes and also expenditures.
<beach>
I am referring to a comment for MONEY-FLOW.
<younder>
gnu chash
<younder>
Two separate tables and they need to balance.
<beach>
Not exactly, no.
<younder>
Exactly.. yes
<beach>
The sum of the debits of every account must be equal to the sum of the credits of every account.
<beach>
But I won't repeat the rules of double-entry bookkeeping here.
<younder>
And that is different how?
<beach>
There are not two tables.
<younder>
Ahh.
<younder>
As usual a layer of hidden complexity
<beach>
rainthree: Oh, maybe MONEY-FLOW is a transaction? But a transaction can involve more than two accounts.
<beach>
For example, if you buy something and pay sales tax, then three accounts are involved: the customer account, the sales tax account, and the bank account.
<younder>
You don't bancroll the consumer account. It is assumed THEY do.
<ixelp>
GitHub - robert-strandh/Compta: Primitive accounting system with CLIM GUI.
<younder>
I guess I'm saying there are TWO Leger's.
<beach>
younder: I suspect you need to read up on double-entry bookkeeping in order to give more advice.
<younder>
Probably true, I am working on intuition alone. A faulty friend at best.
<rainthree>
I also need to read up...
<rainthree>
but first I have to calculate some stuff without having exactly the right model. To show my boss that I have obtained something usable and better than excel which proved a failure already
<rainthree>
all advices and hints are welcome
<beach>
The Compta system has an example world and a GUI.
<beach>
If you click on the transaction named "Bill Telefonica", you will see that there are three accounts involved: The Telefonica account representing the supplier, the Telecommunications account representing a cost account, and the sales tax account.
<pranav>
beach: Are you aware of CL-LEDGER? A CL port of of the C++ program ledger?
<beach>
pranav: If I were, I forgot about it. Thanks.
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<mrcom>
younder: Hint: It's two primary sets of tables, but not the one's you're thinking of. And the two primary sets are divided into two. Two of those are the ones you're thinking of.
<beach>
mrcom: What primary sets of tables are those?
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<younder>
Thats the puzzle
<mrcom>
Equity (assets/liabilities) and income/expenses.
<beach>
mrcom: Indeed.
<younder>
Who are you (the newly arrived?) mrcom?
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<mrcom>
No, I've been around for a while. More vocal recently.
<beach>
pranav: I am not quite sure what the Ledger program does, but i can see that it has its own file format. I'll read up.
<mrcom>
Should be Journals too.
* younder
has a feeling this channel is being monitored.
<beach>
pranav: It could be a good basis for a CLIM-based system.
<mrcom>
Yes, younder, it is. We even know about those comments you erased part-way through.
<younder>
lol
<mrcom>
It's part of the profile--what percentage of starts were thought better of.
<beach>
mrcom: Though, I don't refer to those things as "tables", but as "accounts".
<younder>
Well I'm glad you know of my ill conceived comments..
<beach>
Maybe the report from cl-ledger could be used.
<beach>
*reports
<mrcom>
younder: It's ok. We've only got a 32-bit float, and some people underflow.
<mrcom>
younder: looking back -- beach was correct. the "double-entry" doesn't mean two accounts are hit, it means that if something goes up something else has to counter-balance.
<younder>
mrflow: well I wasn't prepared for this. So cudos.
<younder>
Ahh, now I get it
<mrcom>
So if a transaction increases revenue by +10, and expenses by +5, then owner's equity has to go up by +5.
<pranav>
beach: Perhaps, it's been a while since I looked at it. I like that it caters to the (admittedly small number of) users of SERIES library as well.
<beach>
pranav: I see.
<mrcom>
It's like parenthesis--gotta balance.
<beach>
pranav: Certainly something to study for the project I am suggesting.
<younder>
blah, blah, blah I get it
<mrcom>
Then there's fund account... the only genera where you can keep two sets of books without going to jail.
<younder>
Jail is starting to sound pretty good
<younder>
Look I'm a Engineer by heart.I would never willfully get into accounting if my life depended on it.
<beach>
I recommend installing Compta and reading the default organization. The entire program is less than 450 lines long with the GUI less than 250 lines. It shows how simple a double-entry bookkeeping program can be, and how good CLIM is for making GUIs.
<beach>
younder: Wow, and accounting was not part of your training? Amazing!
<younder>
Now CAD is perfectly fine.
<mrcom>
I'm not too found of it either. Dry like statistics. But it was core part of early career, the reason for the toys.
<younder>
I know double accounting. (At least I thought I did). But It can never be one of my passions.
<mrcom>
Formal training helps push back against the Accountants wanting you to change the software to make dubious shortcuts. (For laziness reaons, not illegality!)
<younder>
Perhaps beach would be a consultant for this CAD program?
<gilberth>
Is WSCL also concerned with clear errors in the spec? I noticed that https://novaspec.org/cl/2_3_Interpretation_of_Tokens#sec_2_3_1 says the exponent of floating point literals is written in *read-base*. Should probably be decimal instead.
<ixelp>
2.3 Interpretation of Tokens | Common Lisp Nova Spec
<bike>
should be, sure. you can file an issue
<gilberth>
I just did.
<beach>
gilberth: Thanks!
<younder>
I am clearly incompetent to to that BOM bit.
<younder>
For fuck sake it is just summing up numbers.
<younder>
But with all the 'extra's' involved it becomes something more.
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<beach>
rainthree: One interesting thing about double bookkeeping is that you don't actually need to have any money on any account. The balance of an account is just a direct result of applying all the transactions.
<younder>
This is sounding more and more perverse.
<gilberth>
Money is not what you have in the bank.
<beach>
gilberth: Oh, you must know this stuff, given that you run a company; perhaps more than one in fact.
<gilberth>
The moment you write an invoice you own more. And you account for that. And pay taxes for that. Doesn't matter whether the customer actually paid that invoice.
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<beach>
Yes, and the moment you receive a bill, you own less, whether you pay it or not.
<bike>
i suppose this is why you talk separately about liquidity.
<gilberth>
Sure, it works both ways.
<younder>
Assets. Is sounding like some big secret venture companies keep to themselves.
<gilberth>
bike: Yes.
<bike>
if you think GAAP is sinister you maybe shouldn't be writing the accounting library.
<bike>
are sinister*, i guess
<beach>
I find double-entry bookkeeping fascinating.
<younder>
good for you
<gilberth>
younder: That's not a secret. It's like everybody does his accounting. There actually laws that say you must do it that way.
<mrcom>
That doesn't mean it's not perverse :) Accounting is kind of like lawyering with numbers.
<younder>
How terrifying. Don't you see the long term consequences?
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<gilberth>
It isn't perverse at all. It's useful.
<bike>
in my off time i enjoy reading about collapsing financial frauds, and it sure seems like double entry bookkeeping makes it a lot harder to pull fraud off
<Demosthenex>
really the math of accounting is easy, even for double entry. organizing those numbers in a meaninful way is hard.
<Demosthenex>
i used ledger for a while, and decided i'd rather not do my own accounting
<gilberth>
mrcom: Say you received bills totalling $1000 due next week. Say you have $800 in the bank account. When you look at the bank account you might believe everything is in order, while in fact you are actually bankrupt.
<mrcom>
Oh, you're totally correct. I did this stuff for a dozen years. I liked creating the systems, just found the root subject uninspiring.
<gilberth>
And when you run a business your bank account is not what you look at when you want to learn anything about how well you do. Cash flow is only interesting when you're tight on liquidity and start needing to juggle. But then you're already in trouble.
<mrcom>
Accounting courses and touch-typing were the two must useful subjects I ever took. Mainly because there was no way in the world I'd pick them up on my own.
<younder>
You don't see the elephant in the room. OMG
<mrcom>
younder: There's a whole herd of them. Double-entry booking made the Industrial Revolution possible. It runs the world.
<gilberth>
mrcom: Two things I learned because they were handy. Though I don't touch type by the official scheme. I had no formal education in either.
<bike>
okay, well as exciting as younder cracking the secret of modern civilization is, we should maybe get back on topic now.
<mrcom>
Oh, that reminds me of something...
<beach>
mrcom: I totally agree on touch typing and accounting.
<younder>
Pardon, I am not trying to crack the secrets of modern civ. Merely trying to account for double being quadruple.
<younder>
You have created a major loophole.
<beach>
Oh, to get back on topic: younder: I created the Posterior library: https://github.com/robert-strandh/Posterior for compiler backends since I didn't see any progress from you.
<ixelp>
GitHub - robert-strandh/Posterior: Library for back-end compilation of Common Lisp and similar languages.
<beach>
Right now, I am just moving (cleaned up) stuff from Cleavir v1 MIR.
<younder>
funny
<beach>
The main challenge is going to be how to create the abstractions for argument passing and argument parsing.
<younder>
Strand I told you It would take three years. And thee years it will take.
<beach>
younder: OK.
<beach>
I am thinking of doing RISC-V first because it is simple.
<gilberth>
The (funcall x) is your computed GO TO.
<mrcom>
*Sniff* More cheating.
<gilberth>
What's the cheating?
<younder>
Anyone feel fro banning mrcom?
<mrcom>
I guess I'm glad I didn't do the RPG thing then.
<gilberth>
Note that LISP's PROG was so that in interpreted code GO needed to appear at the toplevel of the PROG. The argument of GO was evaluated.
<younder>
I mean he is GreaseMonkeylly annoying me.
<mrcom>
I hope you're not being serious. Am I really annoying you?
<gilberth>
So you would say things like (PROG () ... (GO (COND ((LESSP I 10) 'LOOP) (T 'DONE))) ...)
<bike>
mrcom is not doing anything remotely bannable.
<mrcom>
Even if not, want to know if misreading the room.
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<bike>
you're not being annoying.
<mrcom>
gilberth: I haven't grok'd your code yet. Are the "goto"s depending on CL impl doing TCO?
<gilberth>
Yes, I believe so.
<gilberth>
mrcom: I need to grok my own code. Just a second.
<younder>
mrcom: your probably NSA. Which always annoys us. But most prominently you pretended to be one of us. I love mathematics and I suppose you do as well knowing from the stats of NSA. But please let us develop our software in peace.
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<gilberth>
mrcom: Yes, I need TCO.
<bike>
younder, please stop being combative. what on earth are you even talking about?
<mrcom>
younder: Oh heavens no, I'm not any kind of TLA. I suspect real spooksters deal with stuff even more boring than accounting.
<younder>
The spooks are the CIA
<mrcom>
Very few doing real math. Mostly big databases.
<younder>
true
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<mrcom>
Although, come to think of it--I did a few years in ad bidding.
<mrcom>
One day our data sciences folks gave a little presentation. Picked some mobile-locatiion data more-or-less at random. Although the location data has a lot of slop,
<mrcom>
it averages out pretty good. We found a couple, could tell wher the bedroom was on a map.
<mrcom>
Could tell where they worked.
<mrcom>
Could tell they were a reasonably happy couple.
<mrcom>
They had lunch together one or twice every week.
<mrcom>
It was kind of freaky.
<mrcom>
Fortunately, there wasn't a good way to make any money out of that kind of raw brute data.
<gilberth>
Or freaky would have been: "Could tell she cheated him."
<mrcom>
So if you're of interest to a Three Letter Agency I'm absolutely positive that know everything about your habits, even without no-warrant data requests from phone carriers.
<younder>
blah, blah, blah
<mrcom>
OK, subject change. Seems to be a bit uncomfortable.
<younder>
I simply don't care
<Alfr>
mrcom, just make it topical. What can it do for CL? ;)
<mrcom>
I've got a library about ready for publishing. It more-or-less sets up ephemeral environments for test cases and such.
<younder>
see thatI mean those deleted bits
<younder>
I love modern teck.
<mrcom>
E.G., it watches for DEFUN, DEFPARAMETER, DEFMETHOD, etc. and rolls them back when you're done.
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<mrcom>
Anyone find that useful?
<mrcom>
It was certainly educational :)
<younder>
Were all programmers here. I'd love useful. We all wanna make art, make a difference. Sinful as we are. We are engineers. And we are beautiful.
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<younder>
You will really understand programming languages will you mrcom?
<younder>
never
<yitzi>
Please take this entire conversation to #lispcafe.
<younder>
In the end your kind can only bring destruction. We engineers create. We are the past and also the future.
<younder>
sorry yizi thought is was there
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<Lispl-Wicht>
(UTC+2 in mind:) Good evening, everybody. Is there someone who can help me with CL:PPCRE? I do not understand how to change :MULTI-LINE-MODE-P and :SINGLE-LINE-MODE-P since either as embedded modifiers in the regexp (?m) and (?s) or as keyword arguments of PPCRE:CREATE-SCANNER I cannot see any effect. The return values keep the same and they are alway the opposite of the return values suggested by the Perl tutorial about regexp
<mrcom>
The reason I asked about OS is line endings change.
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<Lispl-Wicht>
Oh, sorry:
<Lispl-Wicht>
"There once was a lady\nWho programmed in Lisp\n")
<mrcom>
Oh.
<Lispl-Wicht>
(defparameter *x* "There once was a lady\nWho programmed in Lisp\n")
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<yitzi>
\n isn't a newline in CL
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<Lispl-Wicht>
But in the regexp it should be translated:
<mrcom>
No, you created a string with an "n" in it.
<Lispl-Wicht>
Yes!!!!
<Lispl-Wicht>
Thank you!
<Lispl-Wicht>
I always was focused on the regexps
<mrcom>
,(format t ">>~A<<~%" (concatenate 'string "xxx" #\Newline "yyy"))
<ixelp>
ERROR: The value #\Newline is not of the expected type SEQUENCE.
<mrcom>
,(format t ">>~A<<~%" (concatenate 'string "xxx" (string #\Newline) "yyy"))
<ixelp>
>>xxx ↩ yyy<< ↩ => NIL
<mrcom>
String interpolation is not Lisp's forte.
<mrcom>
There's some libraries, though.
<Lispl-Wicht>
Yes. you're just right. I was just on the wrong track. :-)
<mrcom>
Ah, the "and now everybody think's I'm a noob or something" moment :)
<mrcom>
You're allowed one a week. If you run out you can borrow from next week.
<mrcom>
My tab's at -247 IIRC.
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<Lispl-Wicht>
:-)
<Lispl-Wicht>
Actually ... I now just tried this: (defparameter *x* (str:concat "There once was a lady" (string #\Newline) "Who programmed in Lisp" (string #\Newline)))
<Lispl-Wicht>
Yet still I receive NIL when I would like to have positions ...
<Lispl-Wicht>
Anyway. This was a first real good hint :-)
<mrcom>
And if you're on Windows or Mac the newlines might be weird.
<mrcom>
And that's a terrible limerick rythym. Not bad for a sea chanty.
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<Lispl-Wicht>
Huh?
<Lispl-Wicht>
It's Linux and SBCL ... errr
<Lispl-Wicht>
SBCL 2.3.8
<Lispl-Wicht>
I like the aliteration by the way ,-)
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<mrcom>
OK, then that's not it. (IIRC Windows is ^M^J, and (some?) Mac is ^M)
<Lispl-Wicht>
(By the way, this is where the chant came from: $x = "There once was a girl\nWho programmed in Perl\n";
<Lispl-Wicht>
Simply stupidly taken over ...
<mrcom>
That's not even a good chanty. You'rs is much better.
<Lispl-Wicht>
no rhyme but an two L.
<Lispl-Wicht>
:-)
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