jackdaniel changed the topic of #commonlisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | Wiki: <https://www.cliki.net> | IRC Logs: <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/libera/%23commonlisp> | Cookbook: <https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook> | Pastebin: <https://plaster.tymoon.eu/>
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<rainthree>  "Critique of Bertrand Meyer's Object Oriented Software Construction, 2nd Edition" https://web.archive.org/web/20061117225303/http://www.geocities.com/tablizer/meyer1.htm                 ...
<ixelp> Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos
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<rainthree> does anyone have this documentation in pdf format? https://github.com/robert-strandh/Cluffer/tree/master/Documentation
<ixelp> Cluffer/Documentation at master · robert-strandh/Cluffer · GitHub
<beach> I can create it for you. Hold on...
<rainthree> Thank you!
<beach> Sure. It may not be complete.
<beach> rainthree: Oh, and scymtym has been working on a library that sits on top of Cluffer and that provides lots more editing operations that are needed in a typical text editor. The name of the library is text.editing as I recall.
<beach> It has good documentation, and a test suite.
<beach> ... just in case you are thinking of writing a text editor.
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<rainthree> great. I am learning about protocols so I will read their documentation and code, while in parallel reading the CLIM II specification http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/index.html
<ixelp> CLIM 2 Specification — Common Lisp Interface Manager CLIM II Specification
<beach> rainthree: The CLIM II specification is an excellent choice for that. That one taught me a lot about object-oriented programming using CLOS.
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<rainthree> How to add this macroexpand-locally to slime for the ease of macroexpanding macrolet forms, such as https://codeberg.org/McCLIM/McCLIM/src/branch/master/Core/geometry/3.2.4-rectangles.lisp#L166 ? (defmacro macroexpand-locally (form &environment env) `(macroexpand ,form ',env)) https://paste.ofcode.org/34TcfZnZBPmB8Q8wRH5HnhW
<ixelp> McCLIM/Core/geometry/3.2.4-rectangles.lisp at master - McCLIM/McCLIM - Codeberg.org
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<beach> rainthree: I am not sure what it is you want SLIME to do.
<rainthree> to macroexpand-1 this line https://codeberg.org/McCLIM/McCLIM/src/branch/master/Core/geometry/3.2.4-rectangles.lisp#L166   (not slime-macroexpand-all, but to macroexpand only once)
<ixelp> McCLIM/Core/geometry/3.2.4-rectangles.lisp at master - McCLIM/McCLIM - Codeberg.org
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<beach> That would be pretty tricky I think.
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<scymtym> the slime-macrostep library for emacs can handle many cases of interactive macro expansion
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<beach> How would a case like that be handled?
<scymtym> i would have to look at the code. maybe there is some analysis of the lexical environment involved
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<beach> It would have to obtain the code generated by the macro function and then apply it. I assume it would need the help of the implementation to do that.
<beach> scymtym: Don't bother with the code for my sake.
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<scymtym> beach: anyway, this is what subsequently expanding each of the local macros once looks like: https://techfak.de/~jmoringe/macrostep.png
<scymtym> the expansion is a display overlay (or something similar) and vanishes when the user presses q (as stated in the middle screenshot)
<beach> I see. Thanks!
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<scymtym> sure. i'm very used to having this available so i use every opportunity to promote it. i hope we can eventually do even better in second climacs, of course
<beach> I understand. And I agree.
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<rainthree> scymtym: C-c M-e it was as simple as that. Thanks
<rainthree> beach: btw I've been using this trick for a while and it works nicely (at least on sbcl): https://paste.ofcode.org/Ee3iiWeAzZCrpSFvpaKFJt
<ixelp> Paste ofCode
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<beach> rainthree: Thanks!
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<rainthree> beach: with pleasure
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<yottabyte> if something returns like (values 1 2 3), how do I work with all of the values it returns?
<White_Flame> (multiple-value-bind (a b c) (func-that-returns-that) ...)
<White_Flame> A B & C are bound to 1 2 & 3 in the "..." body
<yottabyte> wow
<White_Flame> m-v-b <tab complete> in slime ;)
<dlowe> you can also use multiple-value-list to turn them into a list
<dlowe> or multiple-value-setq to set variables
<dlowe> but m-v-b is the usual
<dlowe> there's also multiple-value-call which calls a function with the values as arguments but I've never used it nor seen it used
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<yottabyte> thanks both. I didn't actually know about tab-completion in slime, that's neat
<White_Flame> in the repl, it's just tab. In .lisp file buffers, in mine it's Esc-Tab since tab on its own indents
<_death> C-c C-i
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<paulapatience> I just used multiple-value-call yesterday
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<yitzi> multiple-value-list uses multiple-value-call, technically.
<yitzi> So every time you use multiple-value-list you are actually doing `(multiple-value-call #'list x)`
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<karolus> yo does anybody here have any macros for old AutoCAD versions?
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<bjorkintosh> oh he left.
<dlowe> yitzi: it doesn't *have* to but yeah, it's the same as
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<Inline> when was the last time you had a stable sbcl compiling without errors and also testing without errors ?
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<blunder> Is there a way to change what SLOT-VALUE refers to using the MOP? I'm trying to create a metaclass that I can back with a byte array for reading binary buffers
<paulapatience> I'm aware this is not what you're asking (I don't have the answer to your question), but have you considered using accessors instead?
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<blunder> paulapatience: yes, that's my current solution
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<bike> blunder: you can define methods on slot-value-using-class that do whatever.
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<attila_lendvai> i'm diving deeper into scheme... and i have to say that i used to have this impression that scheme is a cleaned up lisp, more thought out than CL, but i don't think that anymore. it's simply smaller, but it's worse at key parts (and not due to hard comrpomises).
<blunder> bike: that's the solution I was looking for! but does it still allocate those slots I usurp?
<blunder> nvm, that defeats the point of a class
<bike> blunder: that touches on a custon :allocation for slots, which is a bit of a dark error in mop, but might be doable
<bike> a dark area*
<bike> custom* god damn i'm a mess
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<bike> you would probably need to specialize allocate-instance somehow
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<blunder> bike: thanks
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