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<calamarium>
Does anyone have a good solution for integrating multiple sets of Common Lisp documentation into Emacs? I'm hoping to replicate the Elisp way where absolutely everything is accessible through C-h o (describe-symbol). The built-in documentation attached to Sly's apropos command is usually terrible (albeit comprehensive), but the HyperSpec is in HTML (and wrangling w3m to open in the correct window isn't going well) and now I'm finding
<calamarium>
out about the existence of CLiki and Quickdocs and more which further complicate the issue of putting everything together under one command.
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<gilberth>
calamarium: Have you considered using the Novaspec <https://novaspec.org/cl/> instead? The machine readable index lives at https://novaspec.org/cl/apropos.js and it renders well with w3m. And about ok with eww last I checked.
<ixelp>
Common Lisp Nova Spec
<zyd>
calamarium: I use `C-c C-d h` (slime-documentation-lookup) which will open up the hyperspec for the symbol at point. I have a local copy of the CLHS in html and view it in EWW. Works well. There's probably an equivelant for Sly.
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<mrcom>
How can gnu CL possibly have a problem with "(cl:in-package #:cl-user)"?
<mrcom>
-> Cell error on #:CL-USER: Unbound variable
<jackdaniel>
one reason, and I'm guessing, could be that symbols were not specified as package designator in cltl2
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<gilberth>
It is well specified in both ANSI-CL and CLtL2. Passing a symbol is ok. However, with CLtL1 IN-PACKAGE used to be a function and not a macro. So this must be some pretty ancient CL.
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<beach>
mrcom: GNU Common Lisp is known for not being even close to conforming, so I would avoid it if I were you, unless you need it for something particular.
<mrcom>
No, just running the compatibility guantlet. I uninstalled that one :)
<beach>
I wonder what the plans are for GCL. There was a release in January last year it seems.
<beach>
It seems very strange to me that IN-PACKAGE would still be buggy in a recent release.
<beach>
mrcom: What version did you use?
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<shawnw>
Gnu Common Lisp or Gnu CLisp? It's annoying that they have two different but similarly named common lisp implementations.
<beach>
The former.
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* beach
assumes.
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<pranav>
I wonder why both Maxima and AXIOM use GCL. Perhaps for wide platform support?
<gilberth>
I dunno. Perhaps because it is the "official Common Lisp of the GNU project"?
<gilberth>
Anyhow, GCL is about the most ancient and poorest CL you can get. It's not even remotely funny.
<gilberth>
And if they are after the "GNU" they could pick CLISP which is as portable as you can ever get and pretty decent.
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<gilberth>
Or use ECL which has the same roots as GCL, but is modern and decent.
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<beach>
I think loke used SBCL to run Maxima and his GUI Climaxima.
<beach>
loke: Is that so?
<edgar-rft>
if I remember right then GCL (Gnu Common Lisp) was created by some Maxima folks because in the old times there was no free Common Lisp implementation that ran on Windows except maybe CLISP that uses boxed floats
<pranav>
Tthe Maxima project only releases GCL builds, afaik.
<pranav>
I see.
<beach>
Maybe, but as I recall, they have done work to make Maxima a more conforming application.
<shawnw>
I use sbcl with maxima.
<beach>
Great!
<pranav>
Even android has a maxima application using ECL.
<shawnw>
Hasn't been updated in a long time though. I think the maintainer abandoned it.
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<jackdaniel>
I gave a keynote talk at els'2x about the history of ECL -- it is somewhere on the internet; it brushes over the topic of GCL and, prior to it, AKCL
<ixelp>
On ECL, the Embeddable Common Lisp - YouTube
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<beach>
Remind me why we typically don't return multiple values (beyond the ones that will fit in registers) on the stack.
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<jackdaniel>
what makes you think that they are not returned on the stack?
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<jackdaniel>
they are not typically * ecl does not do that for the reason that it follows C abi
<beach>
I can't remember where I learned this, or for which implementation it was, but I seem to remember that some values are returned in registers, and then some in the thread object.
<jackdaniel>
thread object typically holds returned values upon the thread termination, maybe you've heard about that?
<jackdaniel>
I think that sbcl does push extra values on the stack
<beach>
Oh, OK. Thanks.
<jackdaniel>
by "extra" I mean those that do not fit in registers
<jackdaniel>
but I'd double check that if I were you and really cared
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<beach>
I don't really care specifically what SBCL does. But if you are right, then that means that there is no particular reason for returning multiple values in a place other than the stack.
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<beach>
.. other than using the C ABI of course.
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<coat>
hello! visiting this chan after a long time. got a quick question. is tehre a CL social channel too for more off-topic discussion?
<bike>
there is #lispcafe.
<coat>
that's the one I was looking for. thanks bike
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<mwnaylor>
Does Common Lisp (specifically Steel Bank Common Lisp) have if-let, if-let*, when-let, when-let*, et al?
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<wbooze>
no, but alexandria package has i think
<mon_key_phn>
why does (string-trim '(\# ) NIL) return -> "NIL" on SBCL. I would think it would return NIL
<mwnaylor>
I'm new to all but basic CL. Where can I find alexandria?
<wbooze>
you can install quicklisp via downloading quicklisp.lisp from quicklisp.org or so
<wbooze>
after the installation steps, you have to invoke (ql:quickload :alexandria) in the repl
<mwnaylor>
Is alexandria exclusive to quicklisp? I want to stick w/ sbcl.
<yitzi>
mon_key_phn: NIl is not a string in SBCL
<wbooze>
mwnaylor: no, quicklisp is a package manager which utilizes asdf under the hood, it overloads sbcls own asdf i think
<wbooze>
mwnaylor: any cl you deal with you have to use some package manager, and the most common is quicklisp,ultralisp btw. theres also roswell
<mwnaylor>
wbooze: ok, that's a good tip.
<wbooze>
there's qlot too, which is kinda cargo from rust or cabal from haskell etc. etc...
<wbooze>
just google for them
<wbooze>
you'll figure out
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<mwnaylor>
I'm used to package-list-package from emacs/elisp and the maven repositories for clojure.
<mwnaylor>
When I saw quicklisp, I first thought it was an implementation of cl.
<mwnaylor>
I haven't delved into the into the NNN-let* macros, but get the feeling they are all wrappers around let or let*. If the macros don't exist, hard coding with nested lets or let*s should get the job done.
<wbooze>
fan of hygienic macros ?
<wbooze>
or what are those
<shawnw>
Basically, yeah. (if-let ((a b) (c d)) x y) expands to (let ((a b) (c d)) (if (and a c) x y))
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<shawnw>
mon_key_phn: Look up "string designator" in the hyperspec.
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<mrcom>
mwnalyor: quicklisp is CL's defacto equiv to pip or gems. It's a snapshot relesae; everything in a particular snapshot is more or less compatible with one another.
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<char>
mon_key_phn: It is because string-trim takes a string designator. Symbols are string designators for their own name. I would suggest to only use string-trim for strings since it will always return a string anyway.
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