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<skin>
Hello. I am looking for a cross-platform, relatively portable way to obtain a collection of all the environment variables that is currently set in the operating system.
<skin>
`uiop:getenv` doesn't suit because I can only query one environment variable at a time.
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<fourier>
skin, I guess you can just spawn "set" command shell/cmd somehow and then parse the output
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<mfiano>
skin: #'osicat:environment
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<beach>
It is becoming a problem that there is a split between people who use IRC and those who don't. The people in the second group are not aware of lots of things going on here, and the people in the first group sometimes tend to assume everyone is up to date. I am trying to figure out how to inform that second group about what is going on. Perhaps a message to LispPro from time to time.
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<JonBoone[m]>
beach: thank you for pointing that out. I’ve had issues with irc largely due to not maintaining a persistent connection. The matrix connection provides a better experience as far as I can tell, but I don’t know what I’m missing since I’m not seeing it
<beach>
I see. The people in the second group are mostly those who can't stand using IRC, and I can understand that there are people like that. But then we have this problem.
<beach>
Five of my papers should have been cited during ELS Monday morning, but weren't. I suspect it has a lot to do with people not following things here.
<beach>
Like most people who submit papers to ELS also ask for reviews here. There would have been lots of remarks if that had happened.
<JonBoone[m]>
I’m fond of irc (reminds me of BITNET Relay), but a lack of channel history when disconnected is a big deal
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<splittist>
Perhaps we can have some sort of 'AI' provide a 'This Month in #commonlisp'
<beach>
This channel is properly logged.
<david`>
beach: it was nice to meet you IRL at ELS. I probably lie between those two groups - I sporadically check the logs. They're very useful
<beach>
JonBoone[m]: irclog.tymoon.edu
<hayley>
irclog.tymoon.eu
<beach>
Oops.
<JonBoone[m]>
My perspective on that is: make it easy to do what you prefer people to do, make it harder to do otherwise. Logging elsewhere and expecting people to catch up that way doesn’t seem to meet the first criteria
<beach>
I make that mistake often.
<JonBoone[m]>
It’s as if you don’t want them to be up to date
<beach>
david`: Thanks. Nice to meet you too I imagine, if I could figure out who you were. :)
<beach>
JonBoone[m]: Well, if people prefer to not keep up with and not cite prior art, we should not encourage that behavior.
<david`>
beach: I was sat beside you during the talk which should have cited your papers :)
<beach>
david`: Heh, got it!
<JonBoone[m]>
I’m not in favor of people not being aware of prior art; I’m firmly in favor of credit where credit is due
* hayley
plays guess-who with the list of SICL papers
<beach>
Didier is aware, and apologized profusely afterwards.
<JonBoone[m]>
This seems more about how to be successful in achieving those goals
<phoe>
I need to catch up with ELS papers and videos
* phoe
wasn't there this year, even online; too much life stuff to handle
<beach>
hayley: Hmm. That's a mistake. I'll look into that when I get home. Still crappy computing environment here at the hotel.
<beach>
phoe: Next time.
<phoe>
beach: next time :D
<hayley>
I think I spotted a reference missing from Tuesday, but maybe it's a stretch, and maybe it is mentioned in the relevant paper.
<beach>
A reference to what?
<hayley>
A reference to some prior work (outside of Lisp or ELS) that I had read of before.
<beach>
I see.
<hayley>
I mean, it's a different approach to a very similar problem to what was presented in one of the talks, so I don't know if it is relevant. But it does contradict some of the claims made in that talk.
<beach>
Maybe that's why it wasn't cited? :)
<Bike>
there is the planet lisp blog aggregator. maybe we should write more blogs. no way everybody is willing to keep up with chat logs.
<david`>
Would it, in principle, make sense to have common-lisp.net (or something similar) server as a central hub linking to all recent development, work and research in those kinds of things? Obviously (if so) it needs someone to do the work there. This IRC channel does seem to be one of the most official centralised places to keep up to date, but as Bike says
<beach>
Bike: Oh good idea.
<beach>
david`: Somehow I think centralizing things won't solve the problem. I may be wrong of course.
<david`>
or maybe we just need something like a good old-fashioned webring for CL content.
<ixelp>
GitHub - CodyReichert/awesome-cl: A curated list of awesome Common Lisp frameworks, libraries and other shiny stuff.
<david`>
(or just use that)
<beach>
Maybe so. Hard to say what will work.
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<phoe>
david`: planet lisp and awesome-cl I guess, maybe /r/common_lisp on reddit if there are news to be posted
<phoe>
planet lisp + reddit for news, awesome-cl for linking complete and useful software and libs
<Bike>
mostly i just think a good step would be something more like blog posts than logs - reading logs is a lot of work and keeping up with a chat takes time. there's a reason formal meetings keep minutes, you know?
<beach>
Makes sense.
* beach
goes back to his room where the network is crap, so is off for now
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<david`>
I'm inclined to agree with phoe and Bike (mostly). I'm not super keen on relying on reddit, though it is useful and I check it periodically. I like the awesome-cl model, because the same repo can be cloned easily and it's easy to see what has recently changed. It's also easy to move it away from github if we so choose.
<phoe>
planet lisp has blog format and RSS, and aggregates stuff from everyone's blogs; I think it's the solution for your problem, it's just a matter of maybe adding more sources to it
<yitzi>
awesome-cl is not a comprehensive list. I doubt the authors intend it to be. The criteria for what is "awesome" and what is not isn't at all clear beyond the personal preference of the authors. There is a lot systems on that list I would personally consider not-awesome. Sabra's reviews are much more useful, but obviously take a lot of effort. Just my two cents.
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<Gnuxie>
You assume people read deeper than Google results for lisp and don't assume people like us are irrelevant
<phoe>
yitzi: it's the best list we have though
<phoe>
the moment a better resource pops up I won't think twice about switching to it
<yitzi>
phoe: No slight was intended. I appreciate having the resource as well. Just pointing out some issues with it.
<phoe>
yes, sure
<phoe>
a very good thing to keep in mind for when someone decides to spend some time on making a better list
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<masinter>
How about a Lisp bibliography?
<masinter>
we've been using Zotero to collect and maintain Interlisp-related papers, documents, etc.
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<splittist>
Do all the things.
<splittist>
And repeat. Who knows what that mention of the latest CL library on LinkedIn <spit> might bring (:
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<skin>
What other chat systems do people rely on
<hayley>
Matrix, Discord, and smoke signals.
<skin>
Seems to me they just chat wherever they want to. Nobody's converged anywhere.
<splittist>
I would guess most people don't chat
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<skin>
In which case the most effective method might be a summarizing blog post like was previously mentioned
<skin>
*Everybody* reads blog posts
<JonBoone[m]>
splittist: scoping?
<skin>
Even something like Simon Wilson's blog or someone makes a small little post that said hey look we had a really cool conversation here and then links to tymoon.eu
<skin>
Willison's
<JonBoone[m]>
If we include China, wouldn’t WeChat be the answer?
<skin>
Where someone not or someone
<skin>
That's just my point
<skin>
If the community has converged on say slack then it would make sense to do some sort of chat bridge
<skin>
But they haven't converged anywhere except maybe here
<skin>
I might appoint ambassadors to those places though
<skin>
They would post tymoon links when they were relevant to the discord channels in the matrix channels
<skin>
That's what I would say. A "this week in #commonlisp" would be my vote
<skin>
It keeps those who don't want to chat up to date
<skin>
For those who do chat it subtly encourages them to log on here, which is the nexus
<masinter>
i think it takes more than subtle encouragement to get over the IRC hump
<skin>
I think the ambassador's thing would work
<skin>
I volunteer to be the matrix guy
<skin>
I'm on both pretty consistently I just haven't added added myself to the common lisp channel
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<skin>
Matter of fact I can get on discord as well. I use pidgin to do all this stuff most of the time so it's no sweat off my back.
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<fourier>
irccloud has reopened irc for me a couple of days ago; now I can follow it from my phone
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<Equill>
Coming in even later than usual: I'm mostly here on IRC, but occasionally on Matrix as well. Discord is getting nope-ier all the time, unfortunately.
<edwlan[m]>
Yeah, I’ve never been able to use Discord
<edwlan[m]>
Matrix seems to work pretty well and is open source software based on a collection of standards. So I prefer it to the alternatives.
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<foretspaisibles>
As a still quite new common lisper I am also confused by awesome-cl. For instance, regarding the containers I see a lot of entries with different level of functionality coverage, testing and documentation… looking at that list someone looking for a comprehensive kit of basic data structures which are well integrated together will have a hard time
<foretspaisibles>
finding what they want. To me the awesome-cl list does a good job at showing everyone that “We have libraries too!” and a good starting point to start exploring codebases but the information there is a bit too random for me to be used in any systematic way. (So I am using it in an unsystematic way and are still VERY thankful to the folks
<foretspaisibles>
maintaining it. And maybe I am just using it in the same way.)
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<foretspaisibles>
Picking up IRC after a long break (last time I used IRC a lot was 2002 or so) I am somewhat relearning that. Joining over liberachat I can see useful pointers like https://irclog.tymoon.eu/libera/%23commonlisp which are great to solve the question of continuity in conversations. Much more convenient than having IRC client running in screen 24/24 as
<foretspaisibles>
back in the days!
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<jackdaniel>
fourier: welcome back!
<jackdaniel>
it was meant to foretspaisibles, but judging from the prior conversation the message still makes sense :)
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<fourier>
Hah :)
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