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<beach`>
I need some ideas. Let's say I have a library L that implements some part of the standard, and let's say some Common Lisp implementation C wants to use the library intrinsically, i.e., C does not have its own code for what L implements.
<beach`>
Now, when some code in L detects an error situation, it needs to signal an error, and sometimes the error condition type is not standardized. But if L defines its own condition types to signal, then the error will be reported in terms of L, and perhaps that situation is not appealing to C.
<beach`>
So I need a way for C to parameterize what condition types L will use in order to signal errors. How can this be done in a way that is not too hard to do or to understand?
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<beach>
So I guess I need for some names of condition types to have a package determined by C, and then referenced (perhaps indirectly) by L when an error situation occurs.
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<edwlan[m]>
Would it make sense to have the implementation handle the conditions the library provides and signal its own condition?
<beach>
That would certainly work. But I fear that this mechanism would be too complicated. But maybe not. Perhaps a macro could help.
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<beach>
I guess in some cases for C to establish a condition handler for some function in L would be too expensive.
<beach>
How about this: L defines a generic function ERROR with one required parameter. It also defines it's own condition types. By default L:ERROR calls CL:ERROR, so that if C does nothing, something reasonable happens.
<beach>
But C can define a method (EQL specialized to the required parameter with the object being a symbol in L) that calls CL:ERROR using some condition type defined by C itself.
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<edwlan[m]>
It seems to me the cost of indirection should be about the same
<edwlan[m]>
But maybe my intuition is off here
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<beach>
You are probably right. However, in the case of re-signaling, the cost is paid on every call, whether it signals anything or not. In the case of the generic function, the cost is paid only when an error is signaled. And error signaling is usually not cheap, so the cost is drowned by the rest of the processing.
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<beach>
edwlan[m]: Does that make sense?
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<edwlan[m]>
Yeah
<jackdaniel>
beach: how about a generic function (client-condition client l-condition) that defaults to identity?
<jackdaniel>
(identity of the second argument)
<beach>
I considered that as well. It may be an alternative.
<jackdaniel>
I see
<beach>
The difference would be in how additional arguments are treated. In this suggestion, they are all passed to the client condition creation.
<jackdaniel>
this solution is more failproof. imagine someone calling l:error with an instance (not a symbol) created earlier (i.e resignaling)
<jackdaniel>
eql won't work in this scenario
<beach>
True.
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<Equill>
beach: in case you haven't already found a viable solution, I have a hacky workaround that _may_ do what you need. Have L create a LUT when it's loaded, that C can override. The LUT's keys are identifiers for problems that need signalling, and the values are the conditions to be signalled.
<beach>
Equill: Thanks. Aside from the implementation, I think the solution is similar to the one I suggested.
<Equill>
The obvious catch is that any conditions C inserts into the LUT will need to accept the same parameters as the conditions they're replacing. Otherwise, I *think* the only run-time-overhead is the look-up involved when the condition is signalled.
<beach>
Ah, right, so your suggestion is similar to that of jackdaniel rather than mine.
<beach>
Run-time overhead during error signaling should not be a big problem.
<beach>
Error situations are by definition infrequent.
* beach
has a feeling he will soon regret having said that.
* Equill
thinks so, too
<Equill>
It's a matter of scale, in part. My last employer discovered that "one-in-a-million" situations become a daily occurrence, if you have enough active clients :)
<beach>
I can see that.
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<splittist>
A gothic 'p' extracted from a Type1C (CFF) font embedded in a PDF and 'rendered' to SVG with stems: https://snipboard.io/iuJAK8.jpg
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<beach>
Nice!
<beach>
Soon, we'll be able to render the Leland music font, so that i can use it in Clovetree.
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<e40>
There was a query earlier about Duane Rettig. He's alive and well. I saw him yesterday! Still working on Common Lisp and the upcoming ACL 11.0 release.
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<pfdietz>
Yay!
<pfdietz>
Should I send him 10.1 bugs? I have some.
<pfdietz>
If he wants to send me a pre-release snapshot of 11, I could test that...
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<e40>
Yes, please send 10.1 bugs to support@franz.com
<e40>
Also, there is a pre-release available now. Send email to the same address asking for it and I'll shoot you the URL.
<pfdietz>
Cool, thanks.
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<cpli>
how/(where in the source) does McClim select the backend to use?
<cpli>
i.e. i have code that can leverage multiple backends which all create some object but have shared generic functions - all seems trivial and good - until i'm actually supposed to create one of these objects
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<jackdaniel>
the function find-port accepts the "server path" argument that may be used to select a backend
<jackdaniel>
you may bind (or setf) *default-server-path* to i.e :clx-ttf and then all indirect port resolving will use the x11 backend
<jackdaniel>
you may use also (clime:with-output-to-drawing-stream (stream :svg "/tmp/foo.svg") ...) to use svg backend
<jackdaniel>
or (clime:with-output-to-drawing-stream (stream :clx-ttf nil) ...) to open a window
<jackdaniel>
(there are other ways too)
<jackdaniel>
if you are interested in the mechanism just navigate to the source of the function find-port
<ixelp>
McCLIM/ports.lisp at 555728b4cd0744ce7c3c681c7e46425d34a31ed3 - McCLIM - Codeberg.org
<scymtym>
splittist: how did you parse the CFF font?
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<jackdaniel>
cpli: :)
<splittist>
scymtym: with jqs-type1, which I am writing now (:
<scymtym>
splittist: i see. i extended zpb-ttf to support opentype fonts but i'm apparently too slow to release
<splittist>
Well, I won't do that, then.
<splittist>
The Type2 charstring parsing just takes a bytestream and some defaults from the font, so should be usable in a OFF / OpenType context.
<splittist>
(that is, the parsing I'm doing)
<scymtym>
right, i'm doing it the same way
<splittist>
I guess I should put what I've got (which is not in any way release-worthy) somewhere you can pick the eyes out of it and get back to extracting text from PDFs (:
<scymtym>
i didn't mean to discourage you from working on fonts. but looking at your solution would definitely be interesting
<splittist>
scymtym: I've dumped what I have here: https://github.com/splittist/jqs-type1 . To treat everything as octets I have reader macros on #" and #! as analogues of " and #\ (so you can use the character(s) for their byte values).
<ixelp>
GitHub - splittist/jqs-type1: Extract font metrics from type1 fonts etc
<splittist>
Don't believe the title.
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<scymtym>
splittist: thank you
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<FIlystyn>
hwo DO i write a comment in lispcode ?
<FIlystyn>
line comments, block comments? hymu ?
<bjorkintosh>
Filystyn, ;;;
<bjorkintosh>
?
<bjorkintosh>
or ;; or ; ?
<FIlystyn>
works
<FIlystyn>
thx
<gilberth>
;; for a comment alone on a line and a single ; otherwise.
<ixelp>
GitHub - foxsae/The-One-True-Lisp-Style-Guide: A subset of style recommendations for Common Lisp based upon the points o [...]
<splittist>
Or see the spec 2.4.4.2
<FIlystyn>
too early
<FIlystyn>
too early for this
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<bjorkintosh>
what's too early, Filystyn?
<beach>
Filystyn: Your questions are better asked in #clschool.
<beach>
Filystyn: #commonlisp is not really meant for newbie questions, although they are tolerated to some extent.
<beach>
Filystyn: But seriously, you need to learn to read some relevant sections of the standard.
<FIlystyn>
im going with practical course
<FIlystyn>
the lack of commen twas just getting on my nervs
<beach>
Filystyn: I understand, but you are potentially wasting people's time by asking questions that could be asked with a simple lookup in the standard.
<FIlystyn>
it's fine
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* jackdaniel
chuckled
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<ober>
knowing CL is not a boolean
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<masinter>
if you used Medley, everyone could have their own preferred style
<masinter>
not serious, never mind
<edgar-rft>
ober, now it is: (defparameter CL t)
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<gilberth>
Only, that CL is not Boolean, it has many truths.
<ober>
beach: try not to scare off new blood :p
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<contrapunctus>
ober: strange thing to say to someone who tirelessly and patiently answers the darnedest newbie questions in #clschool O_o
<ober>
and flags sbcl errors as "not commonlisp related"
<jackdaniel>
I agree that Filystyn asks questions that they should have found answers on their own, but mind that at least in theory being helpful does not contradict scarying people off
<jackdaniel>
another thing worth mentioning that scarying some people off may be a good filter
<jackdaniel>
s/that/is that/
<jackdaniel>
with that pointless remark I wish you all good night :)
<ober>
nite
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<jmercouris>
I'm having a problem with format, if I do something like "(format t "~:[~;lol~]" "fish")" it will slurp fish, ,and I can't print it
<jmercouris>
I could solve it by something like this: (format t "~:[~;~a~]" t "fish")
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<jmercouris>
but then I am introducing another variable
<jmercouris>
of course I *could* write a function that does this, but that seems excessive, anyone know how to print nthe value of a variable, or otherwise nil?