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<bitblit1>
Hello Everyone!
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<bitblit1>
I wanted to clarify (as I forgot) if creating generic functions with arguments of a specific class is a good idea if you know you aren't going to subclass the original class. Basically, if organizing functions by class by making them a method is a good idea
<bitblit1>
<whereiseveryone> "For anyone interested this..." <- Woaaah thats super cool! I am thinking of switching to guix. Thanks a bunch.
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<edwlan[m]>
bitblit: the typical rule for generic functions is that you should either define the function or at least one of the classes you’re specializing on
<edwlan[m]>
But there’s nothing wrong with defining your own generic function that only has methods for pre-existing classes
<bitblit1>
edwlan: Thanks! Will do.
<whereiseveryone>
bitblit1: cool
<bitblit1>
whereiseveryone: Will the meeting be recorded? If so, where would I be able to watch it later if I couldn't attend the meeting?
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<splittist>
https://snipboard.io/mCKR6c.jpg On the right a simple pdf displayed with Adobe Acrobat Reader. On the left the same pdf rendered to a png with common lisp.
<edwlan[m]>
What are you using to render it?
<splittist>
edwlan[m]: pdfreader (which exists only on my laptop for the moment) with a vecto output device.
<beach>
Nice!
<edwlan[m]>
Cool, is it able to also extract data from PDFs?
<|3b|>
is it possible in cffi to define extra names for a foreign struct type? (defctype new old) complains about needing (:struct old), and (:struct new) doesn't work in either case
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<Shinmera>
I... think so if you manually define type translation methods.
<Shinmera>
I forget the details, but I did some weird stuff like that in com-on
<|3b|>
sounds easier to just generate a copy of struct with new name then, since i'm generating the original definition already :/
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<pve>
Hi, is there a standard way to change the name of a class? Like if I do (setf (find-class 'foo) (find-class 'bar)) and also want the name to change.
<jackdaniel>
there are two names
<jackdaniel>
first is the name that is used in the environment to address the class (like you mention above)
<ixelp>
CLHS: Standard Generic Function (SETF CLASS-NAME)
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<jackdaniel>
and there is a name that the class maintains itself (like hayley mentioned above)
<hayley>
I wasn't expecting to have a writer for the name of a class, but I guess it can't hurt that much.
<jackdaniel>
both have writers if we account for MOP
<pve>
hayley: wow, thanks.. I just looked at the page for class-name and couldn't find anything :)
<jackdaniel>
oh, there is a writer in standard too
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<NotThatRPG>
If one compiles a file with a defmacro in it, and then loads the fasl, does that cause SBCL to raise a style-warning to say that you are redefining the macro?
<NotThatRPG>
I'm seeing a bunch of unexpected redefinition style warnings in random-state that surprise me.
<NotThatRPG>
That doesn't seem to be the explanation...
<NotThatRPG>
Actually, I wonder if this could be related to using quickload with :silent nil and :verbose t. Could that be revealing warnings and style-warnings that would otherwise be simply quashed by the compiler?
<NotThatRPG>
No, it's not quicklisp -- I see this with bog-standard ASDF, too.
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<NotThatRPG>
What I'm doing is trying to check for a clean build and I'm getting messages I don't expect https://pastebin.com/RJZ3PFzs
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<jackdaniel>
NotThatRPG: this looks like a serious issue I sometimes spot (not a false positive)
<jackdaniel>
consider (defun foo () (bar ...)) (defmacro bar ...) -- bar in this case is assumed to be a function when foo is defined
<NotThatRPG>
@jackdaniel: I mean that the warnings seem to be false positives...
<jackdaniel>
then when bar is defined as a macro, such style warning is emited
<jackdaniel>
without seeing the code I can't confirm this though
<jackdaniel>
in other words, this looks as if you were using macros before defining them (and that is really really bad)
<NotThatRPG>
I looked at the files that are being loaded and I do not see the macros being *invoked* in those files, only being defined.
<jackdaniel>
yes, but they could have been used /earlier/ (before they were defined)
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<NotThatRPG>
(I did some careful checking)
<NotThatRPG>
In this case they definitely were not.
<jackdaniel>
if the function foo is defined in the file a.lisp and it calls to BAR that is not defined yet, then bar is assumed to be a function
<jackdaniel>
(and the system takes note of that)
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<jackdaniel>
and when the bar is defined as a macro then the system complains with this very style warning
<NotThatRPG>
So I wonder if SBCL is throwing out warnings that are *later* quashed by with-compilation-unit, but before they get quashed, I am picking them up.
<jackdaniel>
as I've said I didn't see the code itself, just that symptoms ideally reflect this failcase
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<Filystyn>
hello
<Filystyn>
i need basic hint
<Filystyn>
do we have clisp manual pages ?
<Filystyn>
I downloaded something like clips hyperspec
<Filystyn>
but ..
<Filystyn>
duno how to enter it ;-)
<jackdaniel>
minion: tell Filystyn about pcl
<minion>
Filystyn: look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005).
<ixelp>
Practical Common Lisp
<Filystyn>
im lookign at it
<edwlan[m]>
The hyperspec is typically read by opening index.html
<NotThatRPG>
@jackdaniel: For example, the warning in there about INCFMOD: it's defined in the file toolkit.lisp and only used in rc4.lisp and rc4.lisp is DEFINITELY after toolkit.lisp in a serial asdf system definition
<Filystyn>
but I am at the moment at the very beginign
<jackdaniel>
I'm presonally using l1sp.org to look up symbols
<NotThatRPG>
@jackdaniel: I remember Fare saying something about SBCL throwing a bunch of these style warnings, collecting them up, and then later either squashing them or emitting them on exit from WITH-COMPILATION-UNIT.
<jackdaniel>
NotThatRPG: I have not additional insight, only what I've said earlier
<jackdaniel>
s/not/no/
<NotThatRPG>
Fare did something like what I am describing in his WITH-DEFERRED-WARNINGS patch for ASDF.
<jackdaniel>
Filystyn: perhaps clisp has its own manual (it probably has!); that said sbcl is usually goto implementation for learing because it is better supported by libraries
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<jackdaniel>
so in addition to the standard (either via clhs or what semz linked), you may see sbcl manual http://sbcl.org/manual/index.html
<ixelp>
SBCL 2.3.3 User Manual
<Filystyn>
ok so hyperspec is set of docs
<jackdaniel>
NotThatRPG: I have not encountered such warnings outside the scenario I've mentioned
<NotThatRPG>
@jackdaniel: But I can't imagine how I could be grabbing up these warnings before SBCL could screen them, unless SBCL for some reason collects them and only later filters them....
<jackdaniel>
I can imagine that if the macro is first defined in *.lisp file and then the definition is loaded from *.fasl file, since the source location changes, the warning could be signaled
<jackdaniel>
but that's only speculation
<pjb>
jackdaniel: compile-file should only have compilation-time side effects, and only in the compilation environment. Loading the generated fasl file later shouldn't collide, either because load-time and run-time side effects shouldn't collide with compilation-time side effects, or because the previous compilation environment is disjoint from the run-time environment.
<pjb>
jackdaniel: of course, it all depends on the implementation, but it is expected that (load (compile-file "foo.lisp")) should not signal such errors.
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<jackdaniel>
makes sense; either way (as noted) I've only seen such style warning if the macro was used before it was defined
* jackdaniel
goes to sleep, good night \o
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<Filystyn>
quick question on the end of say
<Filystyn>
when i load lisp compiles the file and than loads the code
<Filystyn>
and when I compile-file the loading process is faste rbecause the compilation is by then done
<Filystyn>
jap ?
<Filystyn>
it's funny thing you actualy compile soemthing in a scripting lang
<edwlan[m]>
Python compiles all the code you write too
<Filystyn>
O.o
<edwlan[m]>
But, Common Lisp isn't a "scripting lang", if that term means anything
<Filystyn>
ok man
<Filystyn>
i got it
<Filystyn>
I know only C and shell a bit not a big programmer ;-)
<edwlan[m]>
That was a bit aggressive, all I meant is that whether you implement a language with a compiler or an interpreter is an implementation decision, not a feature of a language
<edwlan[m]>
I didn't know this until I learned Common Lisp, though
<ixelp>
Appendix A. Frequently Asked Questions (With Answers) about CLISP
<pjb>
edwlan[m]: CL has scripting aspect. If you define scripting as having program chunks modify the semantics of the rest of the script.
<pjb>
edwlan[m]: Note however, that this works only partially when you compile the program.
<pjb>
But it's in full effect when you load a lisp source (aka :execute situation).
<pjb>
Most other languages have a semantic that is 100% hardwired and defined by having a compilation phase. Which is not the case of scripting languages, such as shell, perl, ruby, lisp, etc.
<pjb>
edwlan[m]: that said, when you use things like cl-launch, which compiles "script", you lose this scripting aspect. Which is the reason why I don't use cl-launch, but instead compile all my "scripts" into a single lisp image, and dispatch on argv[0].
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<jcowan>
There exist C repls which provide (IIUC) what you are calling scripting semantics for C.
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