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<agm>
hello everyone
<agm>
i just read the consistency rules about symbols (http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/02_cf.htm). in my interpretation, they mean that even if a symbol carries no information (eg not exported, no binding, no plist), an implementation can't free it, because the next time it is read it must be the same symbol. is this correct?
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<random-nick>
yes
<random-nick>
what would be the alternative?
<random-nick>
the package holding just a weak reference to the symbol?
<prxq>
if it really carries no information, why not drop it?
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<hayley>
Because we expect to be able to enumerate all the symbols of a package.
<prxq>
ie if it is not possible to tell the difference, why keep it? If there's somewhere a (if (eq 'that-symbol x) ... then there is a reference for it, so it can't be deleted. But if nobody is having a reference to the old symbol it should be deletable.
<random-nick>
how would that work for something like the KEYWORD package?
<random-nick>
keywords usually don't hold any "information" themselves but their identities are important
<prxq>
only if they are used somewhere.
<random-nick>
sure, that could be a legitimate feature but it doesn't sound that useful
<random-nick>
and yeah the standard does not allow it
<agm>
thanks!
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<Bike>
i don't think this is usually a problem in practice.
<prxq>
random-nick: if there is no reference to the original symbol, who could tell the difference? :-)
<random-nick>
you could tell the difference by counting the number of symbols in the package before and after that symbol gets dropped
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<edwlan[m]>
One thing that you can do is delete the package and run gc
<edwlan[m]>
Then the only symbols (and code) that stay alive will be one’s referenced from code in other packages
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<ober>
is there anyway to continue after a drop to ldb>?
<phoe>
yes, restart your Lisp
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<ober>
will throw more heap at it
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<Bike>
Is there an easy source to use to check XJ issues not included in CLHS? Or do I have to dig through some obscure mail archive
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<scymtym>
Bike: i think mail archive is unavoidable for now. to my knowledge, the CLHS-only entries in https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/3697#3698 are only available in mail archives. fortunately masinter knew of http://ml.cddddr.org/ which seems to have many of the "missing" issues
<ixelp>
dpans/x3j13-issues at y-fixes · s-expressionists/dpans · GitHub
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<Bike>
i see, thank you
<Bike>
There are some mentioned in another issue that aren't in this paste. digging is going to be annoying, i suppose
<scymtym>
i thought we at least knew what was missing :(
<scymtym>
but thanks for the observation
<Bike>
specifically, defconstant-special (which is in the list and clhs) mentions DEFCONSTANT-NOT-WIRED, PROCLAIM-LEXICAL, and SPECIAL-VARIABLE-TEST. only the latter two are in the paste that i can see
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<piethesailor>
Hello All! I can't for the life of me remember what package I need for the following: I am using dexador to pull an xml document from the web and I am getting a vecotr of bytes in return, #(60 34 43 ...). What package would anyone of you use to decode so I can get usable results? I assume this is UTF-8 or something..
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<piethesailor>
so (dex:get "url") => #(60 120 115 ..).. I have in the past done something like (black:box (get:get "url")) to get usable results. Does dexador have this capability?
<edwlan[m]>
babel:octets-to-string
<piethesailor>
YES!
<edwlan[m]>
But my guess is there’s a special variable to do this automatically
<edwlan[m]>
In Drama it’s text-content-types
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<piethesailor>
Good to know about drakma. Your first suggestion immediately clicked in my head. Thanks edwlan[m]
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<edwlan[m]>
It looks like there might be a :force-string argument to dex:get
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<pjb>
pieguy128_: chatgpt proposes flexi-stream.
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<pjb>
pieguy128_: sorry, I meant piethesailor who left already.
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<pjb>
chatgpt also gives an example…
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<cpli>
semantically, how does DEFPARAMETER bind a global?
<cpli>
or DEFUN for that matter
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<cpli>
how do these macros "make" symbols available at the "top level" of a package?