jackdaniel changed the topic of #commonlisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | Wiki: <https://www.cliki.net> | IRC Logs: <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/libera/%23commonlisp> | Cookbook: <https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook> | Pastebin: <https://plaster.tymoon.eu/>
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<Josh_2> GM :trumpet:
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* splittist has made it as far as Brussels on his way to ELS
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<jackdaniel> almost there, keep going
<splittist> “boy, are my arms tired”
<splittist> Why would Deflate encoders emit an encoded stream with #\String-Terminator or #(#\x #\String-Terminator) prefixes that would prevent a naive decoding, but when skipped, would decode successfully. (If you see what I mean.)
<splittist> ?
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<jackdaniel> edwlan[m]: thanks for the hint, the company mode is something I've needed (but didn't know about it)
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<semz> splittist: reeks of zlib format
<semz> yeah, #\x #\String-Terminator would be #x78 #x9C, which is a zlib header
<semz> some people say deflate and take it to mean zlib for some reason. is notably the case in HTTP's Content-Encoding
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<splittist> semz: great - thanks! This is in the context of PDFs, fwiw.
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<jdz> AFIK deflate does not use any kind of magic indicator / header.
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<Shinmera> Yeah, there's ... iirc three containers that use deflate
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<czy> when does #'describe return the source form?
<beach> czy: If there were a reliable way to return a source form, then Common Lisp would never be used as a product by commercial vendors.
<jackdaniel> seeing the source code does not invalidate copyright and license
<beach> I didn't say that either.
<jackdaniel> alright, but then I don't understand why Common Lisp would never be used as a product by commercial vendors
<jackdaniel> (if describe had reliably returned source forms)
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<beach> I see.
<jackdaniel> Great!
<czy> beach: fair enough, so if i want to see it myself, chances are i will have to be grepping the sbcl (or what have you) source?
<jackdaniel> czy: common lisp implementations often feature an extension known as "source locations", basically various objects have an information recorded that points to the source code
<jackdaniel> IDE's like SLIME use it (in SLIME you may navigate to the source code, when available, with M-.)
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<beach> czy: I have nothing to add to what jackdaniel told you.
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<czy> jackdaniel, beach: thank you, it worked like a charm!
<jackdaniel> sure
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<cpli> how can i read `.` as simply `#\.`?
<cpli> i.e. what *readtable* adjustment would allow me to read https://0x0.st/H8ym.txt as simply `(DEFSRC ESC MUTE #| ... |# #\. #| ... |#)`?
<phoe> cpli: none
<phoe> the dot is not read as a part of the readtable but as a part of the reader macro for #\(
<phoe> so you would need to replace that one
<phoe> ...well, not exactly "none" per se then, but yes it's not in an obvious place
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<cpli> phoe, can i take the already existing #\( reader and adjust it?
<phoe> probably, yeah; look for it in your implementation sources
<cpli> no trivial-readtables to make this implementation agnostic?
<phoe> I have no idea if the reader macro for #\( is allowed to be portably redefined
<cpli> Q-Q
<ixelp> sbcl/reader.lisp at e483e8c6ce700c5588651472831296c61dfa821e · sbcl/sbcl · GitHub
<cpli> phoe, i'm READing kmonad/kanata https://github.com/kmonad/kmonad configurations
<ixelp> GitHub - kmonad/kmonad: An advanced keyboard manager
<semz> Why wouldn't it be, provided that you don't actually modify the standard readtable itself and instead make your own new one?
<cpli> semz, could you point me to a resource that builds one from scratch?
<phoe> semz: I think that list reader macros on #\( ignore any reader macros on #\.
<cpli> oh i guess sbcl's implementation
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<phoe> semz: try (set-syntax-from-char #\. #\)) followed by '(1 2 . 3)
<semz> oh like that
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<cpli> wait, how does one even create a new readtable
<beach> You copy an existing one.
<beach> clhs copy-readtable
<ixelp> CLHS: Function COPY-READTABLE
<cpli> what if my goal is to read with an entirely new readtable
<cpli> i.e. populate an empty readtable
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<Shinmera> It's implementation defined
<Shinmera> But named-readtables, which you should use anyhow, allows you to create empty ones.
<Shinmera> (taking care of the implementation portability of empty readtables)
<cpli> Shinmera: yeah, named-readtables seems to solve most of this
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<cpli> would someone have a link on hand where the groveller initializes its readtables, seems parallel
<phoe> it doesn't seem to do any sort of readtable stuff
<ixelp> Groveller Syntax (CFFI User Manual)
<phoe> "The specification files are read by the normal Lisp reader, so they have syntax very similar to normal Lisp code. In particular, semicolon-comments and reader-macros will work as expected."
<cpli> oh, reasonable. i assume it simply implements eval itself
<skin> clpi: If I was you, I would avoid the problem by avoiding parentheses. Supposed you just did square brackets? https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/3752#3752
<skin> That way you wouldn't have to muck with paren reader macro, which lisp really, really wants to turn into a list. But Lisp has explicitly steered clear of brackets so we can use them for whatever.
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<skin> Or put it behind its own dispatch character http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_dh.htm
<ixelp> CLHS: Section 2.4.8
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<cpli> skin, the idea is that i read KMonad configurations as they are
<cpli> i could `s/(/[/g` and `s/)/]/g` but that doesn't mean i wouldn't have to read the strange identifiers in those configurations
<skin> Yes, but then the `.` is not identified in the reader, no? Unless I'm misunderstanding
<skin> If you define a reader macro with `[`, the `.` will not be picked up, since it's part of the `(` reader macro
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<cpli> skin, couldn't i just pre-escape `.` via some custom stream?
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<skin> clpi: That's an interesting idea.
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<pjb> cpli: yes you can redefine the reader macro on #\( and when you do that, you have no obligation in implementing what is specified for the standard reader macro for #\( ; however, be careful. Some implementation use cl:read-delimited-list in their reader macro for #\( with a wrong (non-conforming) implementation that allows for dotted lists. The standard reader macro for #\( cannot use cl:read-delimited-list since the later cannot
<pjb> handle dotted lists.
<pjb> cpli: you could of course wrap your threads in filter streams that remove dots, but it would be more complicated. There's really only a single place where dots are processed, it's in the reader macro for #\( .
<pjb> cpli: read the Chapter 2 for more information.
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<cpli> pjb: the types of files i'm reading look like: https://0x0.st/H8vB.txt
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<cpli> i have a glimmer of hope i can incoperate plain common lisp in/between these expressions...
<pjb> cpli: yes, the simpliest will be to substitute the #\( reader macro.
<cpli> simply using read-delimited-list terminating on #\) and self-escaping #\\ would do the job..
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<pjb> cpli: you need to also disable the other reader macros, such as # ` ' \ etc.
<pjb> Perhaps you want to read the single-character symbols as characters?
<pjb> cpli: quickly, it become easier to implement your own scanner and parser.
<pjb> There doesn't seem to remain a lot of reasons to keep using CL:READ.
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<cpli> pjb if at this point there's not point in CL:READ, what should i use to read this lisp-like?
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<pjb> cpli: your own parser.
<pjb> Do it like you would do it in C.
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<cpli> is there some fun way to match (MACRO-NAME ?
<cpli> and that triggers a reader macro
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