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<pjb>
nij-: nope. You'll have to wait for 1st class global environment from sicl. In the mean time, fork a new cl instance.
<pjb>
nij-: if you write your systems carefully, it could be possible. Eg. by defining versionned package names. See e.g. alexandria.
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<Spawns_Carpeting>
Does ECL build purely from source, or does it include some binary image that it bootstraps from in the source? I am giving it a look myself but if someone else knows it would save some time!
<Spawns_Carpeting>
As far as I can tell it builds purely from source except for the C compiler
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<Josh_2>
Good game for CL would be something like My Summer Car :joy:
<Josh_2>
Its 3D but the graphics arent good, its all about the random interactions
<Bike>
Spawns_Carpeting: pretty sure you just need a c compiler
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<Spawns_Carpeting>
thank you Bike
<Spawns_Carpeting>
sbcl and many other impls require a binary of a previous build to compile which is what i am trying to avoid
<Nilby>
Spawns_Carpeting: just a typical C toolchain and a few libraries like: libffi libgc libgmp, maybe ncurses and atomic-ops
<Spawns_Carpeting>
thats very nice!
<Spawns_Carpeting>
gentoo already has a package for it too
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<Bike>
mm, building most lisp implementations requires a lisp in the same sort of way that building a c compiler generally requires a c compiler. the difference is that c compilers are more common, of course
<Spawns_Carpeting>
a lot of languages are like this! everything from java to rust to c and c++!
<Bike>
huh, i thought openjdk was just c++, but i guess not
<hayley>
Its javac is a Java program.
<edgar-rft>
good luck with finding a C ompiler that wasn't built with a binary of a previous C compiler :-)
<hayley>
HotSpot itself is C++, but OpenJDK also includes the Java standard library and various other programs.
<hayley>
(Was going to examine SBCL for a project, but it wouldn't be fun for myself as I know my way around SBCL already, nor other members who don't have time to learn CL. So we got somewhat familiar with OpenJDK instead.)
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<Nilby>
I wonder if anyone has gone from a mes seed to sbcl
<ixelp>
Mes - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation
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<Nilby>
i guess once you have a mes built gcc toolchain you're good
<Bike>
"mutually self-hosting", that's fun
<Bike>
hayley: is openjdk at least interesting? it looks kind of interesting to me
<Bike>
i dug into it a little bit a while back to see what it does with signal handling (spoiler: it's pretty wacky)
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<Nilby>
if you mean posix signal handling, i think that is the core of the unix disease. even hardcore unix people have realized how bad it is, and want to treat signals as i/o now. interestingly i think most hardware could safely support lisp style kernel conditions, with shadow stacks
<Bike>
i mean, yes, it's basically terrible.
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<hayley>
Well, we looked around javac (to add funny keywords) and G1 in HotSpot (to talk about parallel tracing).
<hayley>
The latter is interesting to read. They still lock the queue and use rather large chunks, which surprised me, but I guess I can't manage to get more parallelism out of tracing myself, so there's no need to throw many threads at it.
<hayley>
Not very slideshow friendly though, as there's a few layers of thread pool abstraction to get through before you can say what some pass does
<Bike>
parallel tracing as in GC tracing?
<hayley>
Right.
<hayley>
We needed to show off "operating systems"-y things like file I/O and threads.
<Bike>
Neat
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<flip214>
Shinmera: how about OpenStreetMap instead of Google Maps on the ELS page?
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<Shinmera>
how about PRs instead of telling me things to do
<jackdaniel>
,(print "ram tam tam tam")
<ixelp>
(print "ram tam tam tam") ↩ "ram tam tam tam" => "ram tam tam tam"
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<beach>
flip214: I found it inaccurate for Porto. I had to go to Google maps in order to know where to meet on Sunday afternoon.
<beach>
... So before just converting, it would be wise to check the accuracy.
<Shinmera>
To clarify my snippy response: I appreciate the concern for privacy, but it is not my battle, and I don't really want to expend effort for battles I personally do not care for. So if you want that implemented, I'm afraid you'll have to do it yourself.
<Shinmera>
That's besides me already just having way too much to do, anyway.
<beach>
Indeed.
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<gin>
what's the ELS page? can someone share a link to it?
<jackdaniel>
european-lisp-symosium.org
<jackdaniel>
it is a landing page for an annual event
<jackdaniel>
symposium*
<jackdaniel>
it would be so much funnier had you asked Shinmera to handle you the link ;)
<gin>
*facepalm* I knew that. Google Maps and ELS shortcircuited my brain. I was wondering if there is a map tool named ELS.
<jackdaniel>
at least for some mean-spirited sense of humour
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<beach>
Scribble seems to be a surface syntax for a markup language.
<beach>
The markup language of dpANS is TeX, and there is no need for any other surface syntax. The TeX source is parsed into a graph of objects.
<nij->
Yeah, I think they hack racket reader macro and eventually turns that into an IR.
<scymtym>
dpans-conversion and doclang overlap and employ similar ideas. i can elaborate later
<nij->
Yeah the point is the IR.. hmm.
<nij->
beach wouldn't it be better if we can transform the TeX into #'READable lisp?
* jackdaniel
opens popcorn
* nij-
takes a sip of his tea.
<beach>
nij-: Why is that? You would then deprive yourself of all the CLOS machinery to process it.
<beach>
It would then not contain an instances of standard classes, unless you define reader functions for those.
<nij->
I see. I was imagining a lispier surface syntax so that people can forget the TeX version once and for all in the future.
<beach>
But the very point here is to avoid any additional surface syntax at all.
<nij->
I see now. Thanks :)
<beach>
We already have a very simple and very sturdy system to convert pretty much any object graph into READ-able Common Lisp. It would be trivial to turn the internal representation into a sequence of characters that way.
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<beach>
We use that system to store abstract syntax trees (as a result of CST-to-AST) in files.
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<beach>
In fact, the resulting sequence of characters is precisely the SICL FASL format.
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<Bike>
that's the I/O system you were dealing with yesterday, nij-
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<nij->
Yes ;) Super awesome!
<nij->
While loading dpans-conversion, I encountered this error. Any idea how to resolve? https://bpa.st/ISPQ
<ixelp>
View paste ISPQ
<nij->
Is it because my QL distribution is too old?
<nij->
([DELETE-AND-RETRY] didn't resolve the issue. I also cleaned ~/.cache/commonlisp ; didn't help.)
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<nij->
(Were ELS2015 talks recorded?)
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<Shinmera>
they were recorded but never published.
<nij->
Hmm.. the only way is to send an email to ESL to ask for one?
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