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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
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<CodeBitCookie[m]>
Good Morning Everyone! (and beach)
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<rendar>
does common lisp represent data using s-expressions? like another language would use json, for example
<hayley>
You can do that, yes.
<rendar>
there is an example of data represented by s-expressions?
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<jdz>
rendar: Look at an ASDF system.
<hayley>
The first example that came to mind is <https://github.com/robert-strandh/Compta/blob/master/home>. However note the square brackets; those are used to specify that the reader should read an instance of a class, rather than a list. And the #N= and #N# labels allow for structure sharing.
<rendar>
from what i see, you'll have (exp (exp )) and (exp ((exp) (exp))) but not (exp (exp) (exp)) ..or am i wrong? i'm very new to the lisp world
<hayley>
I picked that example because an ASDF system could be considered code (though the DEFSYSTEM macro makes the system definition very declarative), whereas that account file is definitely not code.
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<hayley>
You can have (exp (exp) (exp)).
<jdz>
rendar: It's just data, you can have whatever you want.
<rendar>
ok
<hayley>
More precisely, the grammar of lists looks something like List ::= ( Object+ ) ; Object ::= List | Symbol | String | Number | ... ; so lists can be nested however you feel is appropriate.
<hayley>
(Though that notation is somewhat informal.)
<hayley>
And the first rule should be List ::= ( Object* ) since we can have zero elements in a list. Oops.
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<rendar>
interesting thanks
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<contrapunctus>
Is there a library which can return information about a `read` form? e.g. whether it's an atom, function call, or definition; the definition type (generic, method, function, struct, etc), the definition name, the method qualifier (for methods), the docstring, the lambda list...
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<contrapunctus>
(Like the `definitions` system, except `definitions` seems to depend on the client knowing the package of the definition, whereas I don't know what package a `read` form is defined in and it'd be convoluted to find out. :\)
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<beach>
If you don't know the package, you can not determine what the operator does.
<hayley>
Detecting IN-PACKAGE forms should be good enough, like in SLIME.
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<ck_>
the wishlist banner is a link, but not the demo one. Is that intentional?
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<Shinmera>
Nope, good shout.
<ck_>
Good luck with the fundraising
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<lisp123>
Shinmera: Pledged to the Kickstarter. Good luck. Very nicely thought out rewards
<lisp123>
contrapunctus: what do you mean
<Shinmera>
lisp123: thank you!
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<lisp123>
You know you can get the package name for any symbol
<lisp123>
If you are simply reading a text file, then you will have to search for the in-package forms and also work your way through any defpackages
<lisp123>
but its hard to say without any more details
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<CodeBitCookie[m]>
Shinmera: Good Luck! Love your stuff!
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<Josh_2>
So much code I could refactor into my own custom classes :sob:
<Josh_2>
custom meta class
<jamesmartinez>
Shinmera: OMG a game written in CL!
* mfiano
watches the monetary value climb to the moon
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<mfiano>
Could someone help me with LOOP? I want to create a list of ("foo" "foo-bar" "foo-bar-baz") given a string "foo-bar-baz" (as an example, could be any depth)
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<jackdaniel>
and how is that related to loop?
<mfiano>
I'm trying to do it with LOOP after failing with other methods, including LOOP
<shka>
mfiano: well, you want be collecting subseq and call position of -?
<mfiano>
Yeah I've been trying variations of that
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* mfiano
goes on a tea break. Must not be with it today.
<Shinmera>
CodeBitCookie[m]: thank you!
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<jackdaniel>
mfiano: (loop for pos = -1 then (position #\- "foo-bar-baz" :start (1+ pos)) while pos collect (subseq "foo-bar-baz" (1+ pos))) ;?
<jackdaniel>
plus-minus off-by-one errors (left as an excercise)
<mfiano>
jackdaniel: Yeah, see output above and see example output
<jackdaniel>
and what is the expected output?
<jackdaniel>
well, nevermind, since you have your answer
<mfiano>
What I said in the example
<jackdaniel>
ah, from the other side
<CodeBitCookie[m]>
Shinmera: Is alloy usable now?
<Shinmera>
That's a very hazy adjective
<mfiano>
He uses it for Kandria, but it still has some rough edges to work on later.
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<Shinmera>
It has a lot of rough edges.
<mfiano>
Yeah I was being nice :)
<lisp123>
jackdaniel: mfiano: (loop for pos = -1 then (position #\- "foo-bar-baz" :start (1+ pos)) while pos collect (subseq "foo-bar-baz" (1+ pos))) ;? --> surely at this point one abandons the loop ;)
<mfiano>
Thanks for all the solutions!
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<lisp123>
do compilers automatically convert recursive calls to iteration?
<mfiano>
lisp123: Also, you can't get the package name of all symbols, re: your earlier statement
<lisp123>
inherited symbols?
<mfiano>
No symbols without a package :)
<lisp123>
now that i remember, there was a catch
<lisp123>
oh :) Also I think inherited symbols are tricky to deal with
<Josh_2>
lisp123: isn't that tco?
<lisp123>
Josh_2: maybe - but does tco still keep calling the function (just passing the values down) (i dont know, asking)
<jackdaniel>
lisp123: some compilers do when it is possible (sometimes it is not possible)
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<mfiano>
and other times the compiler doesn't know it's possible
<jackdaniel>
CL:DO is an ultimate recursive function syntactic sugar
<lisp123>
did you write that post about DO ? There was a good one a while back
<jackdaniel>
I'm not sure whether it is /that/ post, but I wrote something about DO, yes
<gendl>
I'm trying to use it with a project which is hosted on a different gitlab instance, not sure whether or how that's possible. Do I have to copy the whole repo to my other gitlab instance?
<etimmons>
Sorry I haven't replied to your issue yet! The answer is really "it depends". If you just use the definitions to build up your own jobs, you can easily access it from another Gitlab instance. If you want to use the precanned pipelines, then you (currently at least), need to mirror the repo.
<etimmons>
That's because those precanned pipelines have a local: include in them, which I don't think mixes well with remote: includes
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<pranavats>
Thanks Shinmera. This might come in handy if I don't find something more complete. The repo in question is a different one though.
<Josh_2>
Can't figure out how to use sessions with ningle
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<Josh_2>
:sob:
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<gendl>
etimmons: for my first stunt, I'd like to start a ccl Linux container, load Gendl (either from quicklisp or clpm — ideally would like to try both) then dump a Lisp image with gendl loaded, and end up with a new container image with that Gendl-ccl image in it.
<gendl>
Additionally would like to exfiltrate the newly built Gendl image out from the container for use in putting together a standalone (non-docker) distribution as well (but having used the standard linux-ccl container to build it)
<gendl>
When that is done, I'd like to adjust it to do a build from Gendl repo directly (as part of the repo's pipeline) rather than from ql or clpm gendl — while pulling the rest of gendl's depended-upon libraries from ql and/or clpm/clpi.
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<gendl>
.. so I'm really not sure whether I'm needing to just "use the definitions" or use precanned pipelines...
<gendl>
I can show you what I'm trying so far..
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<gendl>
Maybe continue this in #clpm or another channel at your convenience?
<gendl>
or as issue comments if you'd like to preserve the convo there..
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<Josh_2>
I think I figured it out. Lack creates a session for every request, and I have to store and restore the automatically created SID for authentication
<Josh_2>
What a PITA. Hunchentoot makes this much more pleasant :sob:
<Josh_2>
I should just use Hunchentoot
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<dlowe>
Hunchentoot works but I think is pretty vulnerable to session cookie spoofing
<dlowe>
(can't speak to how Lack does it)
<dlowe>
the fact that Lack sets a cookie for every request makes me think it's protecting against replay attacks
<Josh_2>
You can easily change the function used to generate the session cookie ID's
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<etimmons>
gendl: Sorry, was in a meeting (and am busy for the next 4 hours). Do you just want to hop on a Jitsi at some point? Probably the most effective.
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<Guest74>
I need help thinking of a name for an arg in a vector graphic render function that determines the placement of the path drawn based on a given location and how that point is to be interpreted, either it's :origin or a reference point on it's bounding box, e.g. :top-left :left :center.
* mfiano
has no idea and thinks it needs more separation of concerns.
<Guest74>
hmm, now that I write it out, maybe reference or reference-point with a default of :origin or :center is intuitive?
<Guest74>
Specifiying where a shape is drawn seems to be a singular concern.
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<jackdaniel>
one is the drawing position, and then :align :top-left or whatever (or :align-x :left :align-y :top - like in McCLIM)
<mfiano>
The origin may not be where it is drawn. What is the frame of reference, etc.
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<mfiano>
How does it get anchored?
<mfiano>
Too many questions to ask
<Guest74>
:origin would be used for things like relative paths.
<Guest74>
you start literally at the origin of the relative shape. I would see this mainly as a benefit to those who make their own paths so they know their path origins, or text glyphs where in type-1 all relative paths usually start from glyph origin on the baseline.
<Guest74>
jackdaniel: you call it drawing-position?
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<Guest74>
or (render .... &key (:align :top-right) is probably better. Since you're aligning that part of the shape with the location you give or 0,0
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<jackdaniel>
I've called it a moment ago, but that was rather a lax description than a fixed term
<jackdaniel>
you could call it the origin, sure
<White_Flame>
Guest74: "registration" is another term I've seen in such dealings
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<Guest74>
That makes sense as well.
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<Guest74>
This is so much easier in a gui, just drag the shape wherever you want it and move its bounding box around. Doing it elegantly through programming seems quite a bit harder. e.g. drawing lines in a flowchart between a rounded diamond and anything, which sure can be dealt with by tight bounding boxes in this case because the topmost point in the
<Guest74>
path is at the center, but then there's things like Document where the bottom is off center and will always end up with a gap.
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<pranavats>
jackdaniel: Thank you. aster-math is what I was looking for.
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<jackdaniel>
sure
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<gendl>
etimmons: I would welcome any jitsi time at your convenience. I will keep myself available after 4pm today. Shall we set this up under auspices of "clf office hours" as you outlined in one of your proposals?
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