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<pillton>
I have a function which signals MODULE-ERROR when invoked as (F :error). I'd like F to perform a different action and emit a warning when invoked as (F :warn-and-reuse). Unfortunately, CL:WARN only signals conditions of type WARNING. Would you create a new condition class MODULE-WARNING or write a version of WARN which accepts ERROR conditions?
<Bike>
i would not try to signal an error as a warning, because that confuses how callers can respond to it
<Bike>
e.g. muffle-warning is an appropriate restart for a handler to use for a warning but not an error
<pillton>
Yeah. My thoughts as well. The downside of MODULE-ERROR is it tends to be a subclass of a lot of operation specific errors. Reproducing the hierarchy for the warning would be pain.
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<beach>
Good morning everyone!
<jmes>
Morning beach.
<jmes>
I'm wondering how to use apply/funcall/mapcar/etc. on macros - well obviously I can't but what should I do when I want to pass macros around like functions?
<beach>
You can pass the macro function around.
<beach>
A macro is just a function that applies to source code.
<beach>
But I am not sure what situation would require you to do that.
<jmes>
Hmm, I mean if I want to write this: (mapcar #'and (list (list nil nil) (list nil t)))
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<jmes>
it complains that and is a macro not a function
<beach>
You can't do that, as you pointed out.
<beach>
You would instead use a function, like SOME or EVERY.
<jmes>
I see, I've never used either of those yet! Or at least not outside of book examples.
<beach>
The point of the macro AND is to avoid evaluating some forms when a preceding form turns out to be NIL. If you already have a list of values, there is no point in the macro AND, so you would use a function instead.
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<jmes>
Gotcha, that makes sense
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<White_Flame>
(mapcar (lambda (x y) (and x y)) ...) turns the AND into a function
<White_Flame>
although with a fixed number of args
<White_Flame>
but that's what the macroexpansion does, for the given number of arguments, make a NIL-testing tree with early exit. The lambda will contain that expansion for 2 parameters
<White_Flame>
and really, "turns the AND into a function" is more "wraps the AND in a function"
<White_Flame>
jmes
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<jmes>
White_Flame: Yeah I considered doing that too, thanks!
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<CodeBitCookie[m]>
Good Morning Everyone!
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<lisp123>
Guest74: Do you have a link to the Grady Ward repo?
<lisp123>
Which made reference to Mark Kantrowitz, the famous CL library contributor
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<jackdaniel>
it seems that the heat sapped people of irc-typing strength
<lisp123>
Its cold over here near Antartica
<jackdaniel>
that explains why you are the only one who talks ,p
<lisp123>
touche
<hayley>
lisp123: What I did around this time last year, as we used it for university work, was to run Minecraft with shaders on. That way the GPU would warm your computer room up.
<lisp123>
hayley: Expensive (for the university), but smart
<hayley>
In a pinch, model checking or fuzz testing can work, though in my experience CPUs make for worse heaters.
<lisp123>
i wonder if you could do some cryptomining for the same and make some $$ on the side
<hayley>
For very small values of "some", in my experience.
<hayley>
They also tend to be tuned in a way that makes interactive use of the computer unbearable, too. So best stick with the classics, if you want to use the computer.
<jackdaniel>
keep the world warm - a noble goal
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<jackdaniel>
zgaduj zgadula: should `#+ (or) (badum +tss+ #<compute-me>)` in a file cause reader to signal an error?
<jackdaniel>
but according to #+ it should be treated as whitespace
<beach>
jackdaniel: But the reader has to be able to parse it.
<mfiano>
#.(or) #.(print 1)
<Bike>
yeah, but you still need to be able to read the expression
<mfiano>
err #+(or)
<Bike>
in clasp we used to have a test that did something like #+(or) #gblablabla, #g being an undefined reader macro. but there's obviously no way to handle that well, since the #g could introduce arbitrary syntax and the reader can't tell when the expression reads
<jackdaniel>
I see; hm
<mfiano>
That makes sense.
<mfiano>
Interesting.
<Guest74>
::notify lisp123 I think I'm going to make a github with all the Moby files as I had to dig them out of archive.org. They're also at project gutenberg but they rather stupidly present the readme's as the text so you have to dig and get the links to an ftp site.
<Colleen>
Guest74: Got it. I'll let lisp123 know as soon as possible.
<_death>
"Such situations as '), #<, #), and #<Space> continue to signal errors."
<Bike>
oh good catch. there you go then.
* jackdaniel
learned something new today
<jackdaniel>
thanks
<Bike>
i also did not know this was explicit
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<Guest74>
I'm starting to think this Ward guy might have been a hoarder. I'm not sure I see the general purpose of a word list with entries such as AAAA AAAS AAPSS. Nor do I understand why he basically chose a different format for every list.
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<Guest74>
I'm starting to think composable dictionaries of specific points of view would be better. Any thoughts? Do i really want to check for spelling mistakes against acronyms if I'm not using any acronyms?
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<Bike>
trying to spell check acronyms seems like a fool's errand since anyone can introduce a new one
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<Guest74>
I wish there was an easy way to see how much space an object was taking up. writing out the combined dictionaries in a structured format came out to ~100megs, about 3/4 of that was white space from pretty printer.
<jackdaniel>
well, some acronyms are commonly known, like afk, til, etc, etc.
<beach>
Guest74: You can probably find a pretty good approximation. But I suspect there is nothing to worry about. In memory, you can probably also do a lot of sharing.
<beach>
Guest74: Like the trie data structure can save a lot of space, and there are a bunch of fairly common encoding schemes that will make it even more compact.
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<Guest74>
I still see a use in pov dictionaries for definitions. the word salt in context of cook, chemist, geologist is different.
<Guest74>
I'm going to load things into tries today and see how much difference it makes. At least one of the trie libraries out there has huge dependencies, so maybe it might be better to stick with hashtables if there's not much difference.
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<Guest74>
TIL there are 9 different ascii encodings of IPA + arpabet and dictionary writers use them all, not to mention the proprietary phonetic encodings of companies. I've got a translater going now so I'm thinking of storing pronounciations in IPA with some sort of marker for language/dialect. Or wrap it in a struct with encoding type, dialect etc...
<Guest74>
and then you can choose to translate to your preferred encoding (cause most of them look like gobbledygook)
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<Guest74>
beach: The main concern with size is github file size limits. Which would be exceeded adding definitions. I haven't tested the thesaurus yet, but I suspect the way to deal with that is pointers to sets of word, which I'm starting to suspect is what wordnet is all about.
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<hayley>
Isn't there some "large file storage" for Git? Though a large dictionary is not a good fit for version control, yes.
<jackdaniel>
git annex; but he said that the problem lies with github limits, not git
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<Guest74>
it's a 100mb limit. It'd be nice to provide an already composed product.
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<SAL9000>
there's also git-lfs -- iirc github doesn't support git-annex although I might be wrong
<SAL9000>
maybe the limit is higher on release artifact files?
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<Guest74>
some 'thesaurus' entries on 'sad" , "Quaker-colored' "contemptible" "creamy" . Wait, what?
<Bike>
that sounds like an awesome thesaurus.
<Guest74>
I might have cherry picked a bit of the 307 entries.
<Guest74>
but, it is an unorganized mess.
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<Guest74>
it seems creamy might be coming from a connection to subtle colours connected to blue connected to sad. Going to have to figure out a way to structure those connections. though the all inclusiveness doesn't seem bad for creative writing.
<Bike>
i guess quakers wore blue sometimes?
<Guest74>
it seems to include entire groups if there's any relation. "Love" includes every roman god.
<Guest74>
sorry, i was wrong about that, it only has love gods.
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<Guest74>
I confused that with "Amor" which was listed under "Love" and has lots of gods. I don't recall a god named Amor.
<Josh_2>
GM :sunglasses:
<Guest74>
The sunglasses make me think, that kids got a bright future. Just cruising along in the bright sunshine. I'm going to have my irc client play https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqhHThWflLI everytime you join.
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<Guest74>
Bike: have you finished your work on conspack?
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<Bike>
other than that i'd like to figure out tests, yeah.
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<Guest74>
I'm wondering if it'll have any effect on these numbers. writing everything out with pretty nil is 66megs, conspack hashtable is 74megs, conspack trie is 147, tracking-refs for trie is 72, tracking refs with hashtable is 44megs.
<Bike>
you can try it out, but i didn't really change the encoder at all. i was thinking about adding a dense packing mode where it tries to track everything as a ref, but my data were small enough without that
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<Guest74>
huffman encoding for indexing would be nice.
<Guest74>
all of this is much larger than just writing plain text separated by a token. I'm guessing referencing/indexing is a problem when you've got ~300k objects
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<dirtcastle>
rate how crazy I am from 0 to 10. I'm big fan of nix os and guix. but since nix language isn't a full featured language I like guix better. but since guix is gnu's they won't support windows or linux. nixos is on apple but i don't think it's on windows. I think docker didn't solve any problem it was meant to solve. I think we need advanced package manager instead of docker containers. so I'm thinking of making a new nix/guix like package
<dirtcastle>
manager that is written in common Lisp.
<dirtcastle>
if there is anything wrong with any of what I said, correct me please
<dirtcastle>
gnu won't support windows or non free software on linux*.
<dirtcastle>
consider this a thought experiment.
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<morganw>
You can define your own channels and add non-free software.
<morganw>
I think if you look at the non-guix channel there are also tools for just wrapping existing binaries so they will run.
<morganw>
(I think)
<dirtcastle>
true. it's just my assumption but for some reason it looks like lispers don't use guix distro because it uses guile scheme? and nyxt and lem editor is getting attention. it looks like lots of lispers want their software written in common lisp and not any other lisp.
<dirtcastle>
morganw: what u said is true but they all definitely feel like we are dirty our hands but it's usuable I think.
<morganw>
I've only just started to use it, but for me the problem is that the development workflow doesn't feel natural and loading the packages is so slow it doesn't seem possible without compiling it all ahead of time. But other people don't seem to be hampered so perhaps I'm doing something wrong.
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<morganw>
I think they will always be interesting in having the tooling work well and work better, and there is so little hardware that works on the free software kernels that I think most people will already be using other channels.
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<phantomics>
dirtcastle: I've thought a CL init system would be cool, both that and a package manager would be huge projects