<lisp123>
Shinmera: Thanks! this looks like what i'm after
<lisp123>
well not after, just thinking about
<Shinmera>
Note I do not at all recommend doing this.
<lisp123>
yeah I just wanted to think about it :) its not something i would do
<lisp123>
whats the term when you pass the running total of a function to itself in a recursive function?
<Nilby>
lisp123: for a ‘this’ you could do something like this: https://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/3263#3263, but i don't think it's worth it, since it seems more confusing, less flexible, and non-standard, among other problems
<TMA>
lisp123: the term is accumulator
<lisp123>
TMA: Thank you!!
<lisp123>
Nilby: That looks interesting
<Nilby>
just don't blame me if you use it
<lisp123>
Nilby: haha, nah for CL I try to think in CL and not other languages. It was just a curiousity
<lisp123>
Next on the list to learn is smalltalk
<lisp123>
and then I'll come back here and ask how to implement smalltalk in CL :)
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<Nilby>
(defun ⒮⒨⒜⒧⒧⒯⒜⒧⒦ (⒳) (eval (⒭⒠⒜⒟ ⒳)))
<lisp123>
Nilby: It will make sense to me when I learn ST ;)
<hayley>
lisp123: Beware, for if you learn small talk, you need to learn expressions, editorials, explanations, exclamations, and exaggerations after.
<flip214>
and face values, smilies, and nonverbal communications
<beach>
No, it ends with "elephant talk".
<lisp123>
hayley: thats why its hard to learn any other languages, as soon as I see the syntax I run away
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<Nilby>
glad to see smalltalk inspires the silliness fitting for language with a name which is a pun
<hayley>
Smalltalk syntax is quite simple. The only complaint I have is that, in Smalltalk-76 they had a sort of SETF, where you could write e.g. array at: 2 := array at: 1 (and I think the precedence for := was set up so that this expression makes sense), but in Smalltalk-80 they did away with it. So you write the less pretty array at: 2 put: (array: at 1)
<hayley>
Nilby: "I had mentioned to someone that the prose of then current programming languages was lower than a cocktail party conversation, and that great progress would have been made if we could even get to the level of making smalltalk."
<Nilby>
heh, nice quote
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<lisp123>
hayley: Ok! I will try learning it this year
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<jeosol>
Shinmera: I was experiment using "verbose" for logging. However, I realized adding it to my workflow prevents me from dumping core. Is there some workaround? thx
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<jeosol>
Shinmera: I found this in the verbose doc: (verbose:stop verbose:*global-controller*). I hope that's all I needed to do. It does the core now
<Shinmera>
it literally talks about this in the documentation.
<Shinmera>
please read it.
<mariari>
Is there any good way to get source location information in CL. the best I can get is function location via swank/sly. However it would be nice to record information about what line an object is made on, and what calls lead to that creation
<Shinmera>
you could use dissect to capture a trace when your object is made I guess.
<Shinmera>
but you can't do that for arbitrary objects. it would be ridiculously expensive to do so.
<mariari>
yeah, Well I'm creating user nodes in CL, a dsl of sorts so it'd only be when an user object is first created
<mariari>
I can then propagate that information around
<Bike>
this is beyond the scope of what implementations usually handle as source information.
<Shinmera>
SBCL's traces do contain that info if the caller is on high enough debug.
<Shinmera>
and dissect does expose that source location.
<Bike>
if you want a "get current source line" thing to build your own tracking object... might be something for that. don't know if there's a portability library
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<beach>
mariari: We created Eclector to handle source information. You can configure it to return S-expressions wrapped in standard objects (Concrete Syntax Trees) that contain source information.
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<mariari>
Yeah I was looking at Eclector, seeing if I could potentially use that, but I was a bit hesitant on changing out the CL reader
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<Bike>
well the CL reader isn't going to provide you with any source info. if you are reading your DSL yourself you could use file-position, though.
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<mariari>
that is true, though I want to reuse sly integration and all the other tools that come with sly, since it's an EDSL, this route still allows all of that right?
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<mariari>
the image I produce just changes the namespace upon dump so it can be within the dsl
<Shinmera>
so what's the issue with my suggested approach?
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<mariari>
I'm playing with the dissect:stack at the moment, trying to see what I can get out of it
<Shinmera>
Alright.
<Shinmera>
Back when I wrote that I used it to provide a sort of debugger with source info for radiance web apps.
<nijj>
Any news about the new CLHS (WSCL) since the beginning of the year :D ?
<mariari>
that sounds neat, guessing you had to delay processing of something, so the base stack trace messages were not helpful?
<Shinmera>
well the server has to emit a page which necessarily unwinds the stack.
<Shinmera>
so it just captured the trace with dissect, serialised it into a webpage, and displayed that.
<Shinmera>
usually I just use slime like everyone else, but it was useful for remote setups sometimes.
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<mariari>
yeah Shinmera the dissect gives me the nested calls so I can trace the objects I can report which functions they were made from, which gets me close to what I want
<mariari>
thanks!
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<mariari>
both on ccl and sbcl which is nice since I use both for testing
<Shinmera>
huzzah
<mariari>
It doesn't give me the line in which it's invoked from, however I can try some other techniques to get that part
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<Shinmera>
se dissect:find-definition-in-file
<Shinmera>
ah, wait, nvm
<Shinmera>
iirc the machinery only handles toplevel forms, rather than nested stuff.
<mariari>
Yeah that's fine I may be able to use a custom reader to maybe handle the rest, since I know where the function definition is being invoked from, maybe I can use a custom reader like eclector to get the relative position from using it's read from there when I go to eval the body
<mariari>
That might be able to set up something for me to specifics on the exact position of the current function, and I can track my own calls from here easily I think(?)
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<phoe>
jeosol: if you make a video, I'll gladly organize a meeting and play it for everyone
<phoe>
for me, no videos means no meetings!
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