00:48 <DC-IRC> <JTode> Hey all, I just built snapcast from source and created deb packages, but when I attempt `sudo apt install ./snapclient_blahblah.deb` it says "Note, selecting "snapclient" instead of blah blah.

00:48 <DC-IRC> <JTode> Is there a switch to force it to install the up-to-date package I just built? Did not have this issue on regular debian, haven't encountered apt refusing to install when you give it a specific path.

01:08 <archetech> paths are built in the pkg

01:08 <archetech> and whats the ./ for

01:08 <archetech> a pkg isnt a executable

04:38 <jspiros> JTode: dpkg is the program that actually installs packages, apt uses dpkg as needed but its purpose is retrieving packages from the various apt sources you have configured

04:39 <jspiros> JTode: apt also handles figuring out and retrieving dependencies, so if you bypass it try to ensure you have all the dependencies already installed

04:40 <jspiros> JTode: that all said, "dpkg -i whatever.deb" is probably what you want

04:40 <jspiros> (as root/using sudo, of course)

07:26 <DC-IRC> <happy1996> I am facing some issues.. it's unofficial but armbian related.. can I ask it here? I just need suggestions..

07:39 <DC-IRC> <Werner> Try either forums or #ID:854735915787878463 . We usually don't waste our time with 3rd party builds since their contents are unknown

08:21 <DC-IRC> <happy1996> Okay thank you

10:40 <jspiros> DC-IRC seems to not support something, unless long integers like this make sense to others <DC-IRC> <Werner> Try either forums or #ID:854735915787878463 . We usually don't waste our time with 3rd party builds since their contents are unknown

11:00 <DC-IRC> <Werner> Seems like it does not translate channel names even if they are known. Minor issue I'd say

11:51 <DC-IRC> <JTode> ./ is typically how to specify to a *nix system that you want to operate on a specific file rather than a file it finds automatically in the path. It is not only for executables.

11:55 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> ./ is very useful if your $

11:56 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> er $PATH finds x* same files

11:56 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> especially with +x

11:56 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> That can lead to very annoying results

13:08 <jspiros> Werner: I was just wondering what you said, as I otherwise have no idea with that weird ID stuff

13:08 <jspiros> I assume the "#" part was in the original, then, if it's a reference to a channel

13:08 <jspiros> so it just translated some internal name to "ID:#"

13:10 <jspiros> as for using ./ to avoid the shell seeking things in $PATH, that's true for the first word/token sent to the shell, but whether arguments to commands are going to search $PATH is really down to the program/command being run, and most programs do not do anything like that for their arguments

13:10 <jspiros> and in the case of "apt install whatever", I'm pretty sure apt does not look at $PATH to resolve what "whatever" means, it just treats it as a string to search its cache of the various configured apt sources

13:11 <jspiros> I'm not actually sure as I haven't checked apt's source code to be 100% sure, but it would frankly be kind of odd for it do that

13:13 <jspiros> the contents of the $PATH environment variable is generally only used by shells, and shells mostly leave simple arguments sent to commands unchanged/unprocessed

14:05 <DC-IRC> <JTode> I need to go back and look again at my install process on the Debian machine now, because I'm not honestly sure it didn't do the same thing there.

14:05 <DC-IRC> <JTode> That being said, I also just noticed that Armbian's package seems to be the same version I just compiled, so in actuality it doesn't matter. I was assured by some random post I read when I set out to get into snapcast the other day that Debian's package was unusably old so I just took for granted that I should not even bother trying it, but either that was a lie or else Armbian i <clipped message>

14:05 <DC-IRC> <JTode> s more on point about snapcast. :>

14:06 <jspiros> when talking about Debian stable releases, people often start to grumble about things being too out of date, but there was a relatively recent new release of Debian, which the latest Armbian release is based on

14:06 <jspiros> so things shouldn't be too out of date just yet :)

14:10 <DC-IRC> <JTode> Yah, I just switched back to Debian as my default, while I sometimes cheat on it with Arch. In this case, I'm attempting to squeeze some use out of an old Tinkerboard, and it seems that I am gonna need to start the whole thing over because alsa seems to be absent from the bookworm release. The multimedia package seems to only be available for Buster. So, I am probably going to en <clipped message>

14:10 <DC-IRC> <JTode> d up using that dpkg after all. I just hate using dpkg. I suppose I could just create a local repo with those .deb packages and add it to my apt, I could do that. I haven't done that before, I think I will.

14:10 <DC-IRC> <JTode> Anyways, cheers, and thanks for all the good work, a general-purpose Arm OS that is not tied to a single board was sorely needed.

14:12 <DC-IRC> <JTode> Or am I being dense again, I wonder - I'm basing this on this... https://forum.armbian.com/topic/16517-rk3288rk3328-legacy-multimedia-framework/#comment-115642

14:13 <DC-IRC> <JTode> Anyways I downloaded the Buster legacy, will try again there. :>

14:18 <DC-IRC> <tyro> Hey guys does anyone know the status for Orange Pi 3b?

14:20 <DC-IRC> <rpardini> Yeah, whats the question?

14:20 <DC-IRC> <tyro> Does NVME work?

14:21 <DC-IRC> <tyro> And have you tried to install DietPi on top of armbian for opi3b

14:21 <DC-IRC> <rpardini> Yes NVMe works in general. Some devices are too power hungry and might fail under load.

14:21 <DC-IRC> <rpardini> No DietPi here.

14:23 <DC-IRC> <tyro> Ok well I'm wanting to make a nas with the 2gb I received yesterday

14:24 <DC-IRC> <tyro> Maybe I should go powered usb3 dock with SSD instead?

14:26 <DC-IRC> <rpardini> That's up to you to test. You might have success with a PCIe-to-SATA adapter.

14:27 <DC-IRC> <tyro> Thank You

16:53 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> jspiros: no.. $PATH is used by "every" executable run... shell or otherwise

16:53 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> You may not see it explicitly but it is defined

16:57 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> How do you propose using a binary interactively without a shell?

16:57 <jspiros> $PATH is used by the shell process to determine /what/ executable to run

16:58 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> That's exactly what I said earlier

16:58 <jspiros> whether a given executable itself reads the PATH environment variable and does something with it is what I was talking about

16:58 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> or can you not read

16:59 <jspiros> almost all executables normal people encounter are not going to read the PATH environment variable themselves and do anything with it, let alone use it to interpret the args the shell passes to it

17:00 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> almost != all so stop assuming.... rule #1

17:00 <jspiros> and most shells I'm aware of generally don't utilize the PATH environment variable's contents to transform the arguments passed to programs

17:00 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> wrong

17:00 <jspiros> yes, tenkawa42, I included the word "almost" before "all" because I know what "almost" means

17:01 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> $PATH is used very frequently so is $@ which also is a dual edge

17:01 <jspiros> honestly, tenkawa42, I think you're not fully reading what I'm saying, like you're skipping many of the words or something

17:01 <jspiros> I said "to transform the arguments passed to programs"

17:01 <jspiros> you certainly can pass $PATH itself as an argument if you want

17:02 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> the args are passed via $@

17:02 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> but it can be dangerous

17:03 <jspiros> shells generally just pass arguments on unmodified, outside of some features that require special notation

17:03 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> unless you want to pass them with fixed vars $1 $2 $a $b etc

17:03 <jspiros> but simple strings and the like generally (again, a shell can do whatever it wants, I'm speaking of the most commonly used shells) just get passed as-is, and aren't assumed to be executables themselves (which is what $PATH is for)

17:05 <jspiros> the example given was "apt install ./some-file.deb", there's no reason the second argument to apt would be pre-processed by the shell, or involve $PATH, at all

17:05 <jspiros> whether "./" was included or not

17:07 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> yes.. I was agreeing with you... ./ enforces PWD

17:08 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> but apt has built in code to check

17:08 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> it looks anyway

17:08 <jspiros> honestly, tenkawa42, between this and a conversation we had last week I wonder if you're just very over-confident without knowing the interworking of things or if you're a very dedicated troll :)

17:08 <jspiros> though I'm mostly just hoping that English isn't your first language and it's language compatibility issues that we keep running into

17:10 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> btw you are wrong

17:10 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> apt install test.deb

17:10 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> Reading package lists... Done

17:10 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> Building dependency tree... Done

17:10 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> Reading state information... Done

17:10 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> E: Unable to locate package test.deb

17:10 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> E: Couldn't find any package by glob 'test.deb'

17:10 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> apt install ./test.deb

17:10 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> Reading package lists... Error!

17:10 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> E: read, still have 8 to read but none left

17:10 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> E: Internal error, could not locate member control.tar{.zst,.lz4,.gz,.xz,.bz2,.lzma,}

17:10 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> E: Could not read meta data from /root/test.deb

17:10 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> E: The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened.

17:10 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> note without the ./ it cannot find the deb

17:10 <jspiros> that has nothing to do with $PATH

17:11 <jspiros> apt assumes you're talking about a package name unless the argument contains a string that looks like a path

17:11 <jspiros> it has no reason to look at the PATH environment variable to determine that

17:11 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> I never said it did... you did..

17:13 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> I was never talking specificly about "apt only"... I was talking about Unix utilities that read environment variables and use them. You are the one hung up on apt...

17:14 <jspiros> ...

17:14 <jspiros> I only mentioned apt as an example while talking about the environment variable PATH, and in response to your spammy paste of your running apt

17:15 <jspiros> I've just been talking about the PATH environment variable and how most programs do not use it for anything, as it's primarily useful to shells

17:15 <jspiros> (or programs that spawn other programs in a similar manner to shells)

17:15 <jspiros> as I said earlier, [2023-09-26T12:58:15-0400] <jspiros> whether a given executable itself reads the PATH environment variable and does something with it is what I was talking about

17:16 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> I never said I was running apt.... what are you on?

17:16 <jspiros> you just spammed the channel with a log of apt being run with different arguments

17:17 <jspiros> six or seven minutes ago

17:17 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> jspiros: and your rambling had no relevance to anything

17:18 <jspiros> if you don't want to chat, that's fine, it would probably improve the atmosphere :)

17:18 <DC-IRC> <tenkawa42> I was agreeing with what someone said last night and you've done nothing but cause trouble since.

17:18 <jspiros> at the moment I have nothing to talk about except responding to you

17:18 <jspiros> I don't know what trouble you perceive as having been caused, but okay

17:19 <jspiros> I recommend relaxing and improving your attitude

17:19 <jspiros> you sound very stressed out

18:08 <DC-IRC> <shtripok> I run `./compile.sh conf BOARD= BRANCH=edge kernel` hoping to see TUI board chooser, but got `error! [ No such BOARD ''; no board config file found. ]`

18:08 <DC-IRC> <shtripok> where my fancy bord choosing menu?

18:09 <DC-IRC> <shtripok> I run `./compile.sh conf BOARD= BRANCH=edge kernel` hoping to see TUI board chooser, but got `error! [ No such BOARD ''; no board config file found. ]`

18:09 <DC-IRC> <shtripok> where my fancy board choosing menu?

18:28 <DC-IRC> <rpardini> I'm not sure but I think TUI is only for no-command or `build` command, not `kernel`

18:31 <DC-IRC> <shtripok> @rpardini you right!

18:31 <DC-IRC> <shtripok> Thank you!

19:16 <mkrawczuk> Hi!

19:53 <juri_> hello!