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<nekomancer[m]>
gaa! just do it → traceroute bad.horse
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<Laskolnyk>
hello folks. I have a question about package installation. I'm new to debian/ubuntu distros, and I have a yt-dlp package installed: https://pastebin.com/1C816puF version 2022.04.08-1. There is a newer version available as you can see 2022.11.11-1~bpo22.04.1 but it is not being installed during apt upgrade. I need to install that version manually. Why is that so?
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<yang2>
Laskolnyk: did you try "apt full-upgrade" ?
<Laskolnyk>
yang2: nvm, question has been answered, it's about backports.
<yang2>
Laskolnyk: also you need to "apt update" first in case you forgot that?
<yang2>
ok
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<nettings>
[TheBug], more HC4 fun: I booted the problem image in another HC4 which was running two large SATA spindles. Result: one drive got recognized, which allowed me to run some critical backups manually. Powered it down, put in the original drives and SD card, and now a previously flawlessly running system will not find its second SATA drive anymore.
<nettings>
So this one is contagious.
<nettings>
Now I'm from one unusable HC4 to two.
<stipa>
what could be the cause? i guess software since it's unlikely both died
<stipa>
maybe one drive is faulty
<nettings>
stipa, the SD card is the same that ran perfectly a few hours ago. unaltered.
<nettings>
the drives aren't faulty, they work flawlessly in other systems.
<stipa>
nettings: did you try to switch places of the drives?
<[TheBug]>
um, you having power problems where you are, do you use any type of UPS?
<[TheBug]>
cause only thing that makes sense to me is somethings happening to interupt the 12v power supply
<nettings>
Here's someone else whose HC4 are dying from large disks.
<nettings>
Now I will check those regulators.
<[TheBug]>
Closer inspection revealed the burnt step-down U24
<[TheBug]>
then get schematics and test the step-down regulator
<[TheBug]>
with meter
<nettings>
[TheBug], no power issues here, this grid runs about ten machines without as much as a glitch.
<[TheBug]>
but if this has now happened to 2 it would make me think a surge happened and it fried that regulator -- or that regulator they are using is just trash and it dies..
<[TheBug]>
but if it is the regulator you can probably get a replacement for pennies
<[TheBug]>
even that post says " I thought it could have been power surge or a simple coincidence."
<[TheBug]>
yeah but just cause you have power doesn't mean it's clean power
<[TheBug]>
or pure sine wave
<[TheBug]>
which is what a ups ensures
<[TheBug]>
which is why I asked that questions
<nettings>
TheBug, the now faulty machine was running previously. While the first one had already failed. Don't tell me a surge can fry an onboard regulator and not take down the system with it.
<stipa>
nettings one guy in thread had a failed power delivery to a drive
<[TheBug]>
actually it can, the regulator could have gotten hit and been on its way out but until you removed power and let it cool down it didn't quit
<[TheBug]>
but again it could equally be just failing parts cause of bad QC
<[TheBug]>
but it just seems to coiencidental
<nettings>
stipa, i just posted that very link, what are you trying to tell me?
<[TheBug]>
s+coiencidental+coincidental+g
<ArmbianHelper>
[TheBug] meant to say: but it just seems to coincidental
<stipa>
nettings: it's a link to a comment in that thread
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<stipa>
plenty of stuff to check out in that thread
<stipa>
by the thread i would say the disks overloaded electronics that provide power to one disk
<stipa>
spinning rust is without a problem over 1A per disk
<[TheBug]>
possibly the regulator they are using isn't quite beefy enough and has a short life
<stipa>
right, it's safer to go with SSDs with that board it seems so
<nettings>
stipa, your comments are really helpful :o)
<nettings>
got a nice 14TB SSD i can borrow?
<stipa>
nettings: maybe it's just power part that is gone, you coul provide power externally
<stipa>
if the data transfer part is ok
<[TheBug]>
Also my thought I had after you said yesterday the temps your let it run at, you have to remember just because the SoC is 47c doesn't mean the surround chips are that or cooler, it just means the SoC is that temp. With that HC4 case if your not controlling the fan and keeping heat down in there, the other issue that could be wearing the regulator faster could be just heat.
<nettings>
TheBug, I don't buy this wearout theory. My backup system was configured with disk spindown. So it would experience inrush currents frequently (not on both drives at the same time, but it looks like there is one regulator per SATA port).
<nettings>
TheBug, how's your dual-HD system doing? What was the latest kernel you've been running?
<nettings>
I won't challenge you to update and reboot, just curious :o]
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<Armbian-Discord>
<Tenkawa> nettings: I'll throw my 2 cents into this.... If these drives are spinning media and they are older then "disk spindown" also becomes less efficient over time as well and it is very possible you are still being impacted by friction and less than optimal startup/shutdown due to the logic no longer being able to compensate at the same rate.
<Armbian-Discord>
<TheBug> Nettings: the thing is a lit of time the BOM on a board is done to a spec with least expensive components that match. It would not be the first time components on SBCs have failed over time from heat + poor manufacturing, I had an SPI just die on an ESPRESSOBin for example...
<Armbian-Discord>
<TheBug> s/lit/lot/g
<Armbian-Discord>
<TheBug> I have a RockPi4c that just stopped booting cause pmic is broke pretty sure, ran for 2.5 years 24/7 before failure.. And didnt fail till I had to restart it...
<nettings>
The two systems that died have a few months age difference, and the newer one has been mostly idling, disks spinning up maybe once a month.
<nettings>
I believe I have a drive here that reliably kills regulators. Can't wait to test with the replacement HC4 that's due tomorrow :o)
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tenkawa> nettings: have you ran smartctl on these drives?
<nettings>
Tenkawa, regularly, nothing out of the ordinary. Also, they are less than 3 years old.
<nettings>
Will do it again now.
<nettings>
The older of the two systems has been up since October 2021. Drive has 15k5 power on hours, 278 start-stop counts.
<Armbian-Discord>
<Tenkawa> any Warning/Critical temp time?
<nettings>
The second drive in that system has run a bit longer, 18k hours. But it was more lightly loaded.
<[TheBug]>
Well next thing if I were you nettings is I would find the schematics for it and I would find that U24 and figure out how to test it on both
<[TheBug]>
if you can show with confidence its failed you probably have some options
<[TheBug]>
I would say at minimum if you tell HardKernl about it they will maybe send you the part
<[TheBug]>
but maybe they would even replace it
<stipa>
what's the model name of that chip?
<[TheBug]>
you would have to look at the schematic and find out..
<[TheBug]>
the forum post just says "regulator at U24"
<nettings>
[TheBug], just did, Odroid post them in their wiki, thankfully. Problem is, I can't fscking see those things with my eyesight. Thank god for test pads, those I might have a chance of hitting...
<nettings>
The schematics are even indexed with part number, so it's easy to find:
<[TheBug]>
probably not too hateful to replace with hot air, maybe a little more difficult with soldering iron but doable
<nettings>
:o)
<stipa>
it's cheaper to buy a new one than to pay someone to do it expect you have a friend with the modern gear
<[TheBug]>
nettings: maybe if you offer to pay his flight stipa will come to your house and fix it for you
<[TheBug]>
but it would probably still be cheaper to go down the street..
<[TheBug]>
I hear he requires at least a case of beer before he will get started..
<stipa>
in CAL it's like 100$ to do that
<stipa>
i can guide from here
<stipa>
remote control
<stipa>
nah, i have a cheap hot air station, it barely heated mobo on a tablet
<stipa>
i ripped one anchor pad ff the mini usb C connector while removing it
<stipa>
mini USB, not C
<stipa>
modern boards suck heat
<stipa>
reasonable china hot air station is min around $400 to heat the board and do a clean bjob
<nettings>
I'm not gonna hit this board with a hot-air gun, that's for sure. But I'll be happy to donate it to anyone who can do that.
<nettings>
stipa, i don't even want to know what a bjob is...
* nettings
ducks and covers
<[TheBug]>
if stipa does it, he doesn't need a hot air stations, he is so hot all he has to do is give it a blow...
<[TheBug]>
haha
<stipa>
nettings: it's a typo
<[TheBug]>
I guess would have been funnier to say "he is so full of hot air all he has to do is give it a blow".. but i digress
<stipa>
damn right i'm hot
<[TheBug]>
ahahaha
<stipa>
you're good at reading ppl
<nettings>
stipa: that is disappointing...
<stipa>
nettings: that's life
<nettings>
ok, the two SATA 12V test pads are both dead on the machine that doesn't recognize a 12v drive in either port.
<nettings>
unless they are somehow switched off in software the regulator does have an "on" line,
<nettings>
but that's shared with another regulator that works...
<nettings>
yes, 5V_EN is definitively "on", because it also controls U11, and that output is up. Although at 5.2v a little on the high side, but that's unloaded.
<[TheBug]>
I would say you want to check for 12v coming out of U21 and U24 on pins 1,3 or 6 I think and see if its missing there, it would appear they both should generate 12v
<nettings>
you mean to rule out burned inductances or capacitors down the line? Because I did measure TP10/11.
<nettings>
I'm not sure what to expect at the outputs of the regulators, to be honest. The network that connects all three outputs looks quite complex...
<nettings>
LX should have the voltage if I'm guessing correctly, but out of my depth here... BS looks like some kind of feedback, FB gets fed by something that to me looks like it would oscillate...
<nettings>
wait, that's a notch filter, no? taking some specific dirt out of the output, and also providing feedback?
<nettings>
damn, those pin numbers are confusing. ok, one is at input voltage, one at roughly 3.3, the rest are dead.
<nettings>
Ok, first one to mail me a return envelope wins a free, as-new HC4 minus 12V on the SATA ports. Great for people like stipa who have multi-terabyte SSDs or tbe ability to even consider replacing an SMD regulator.
<nettings>
Heck, I can't even properly *see* that damn thing. Where are the nice things with wires through holes?
<stipa>
nettings: try to power disks wit external power from an PC ATX supply
<stipa>
if it works then it's the regulators dead
<stipa>
iif you haven't updated software on them for a long time i don't see a reason something would switch things in software
<nettings>
stipa: ATX kinda defeats the purpose - I want to be as energy-efficient as possible. If I run an ATX supply, I might as well run a real mainboard.
<nettings>
Also, stipa, I think I just conclusively demonstrated that the regulator is, indeed, dead.
<stipa>
nettings: you're not sure
<stipa>
i'm mentioning ATX PSU just to hunt the fault
<nettings>
yes, now i am.
<stipa>
as you wish
<nettings>
the fault hunting is now officially over, cost me almost a week. at my usual rates, that almost buys me a 12 bay NAS with a couple of XEONs behind it. well. leave the hardware to the pros, I guess :o(
<stipa>
i guess you don't enjoy anything your life anymore since you've went the path of the biggest profits
<nettings>
[TheBug], c0rnelius, Tenkawa, stipa: thanks for your valuable insights!