<asklow>
Strange to rely on python scripts for such core functionalities. My goal is to not hunt & peck for number row, & move away from my home row frequently.
<leon-p>
asklow: note that rivers WM behaviour will be dropped almost completely eventually, meaning all of this can then be implemented in "user space"
<asklow>
It's the same deal with autotiling with i3-ipc (until I decided to go completely manual as how devs prefer it to be)
<asklow>
So most compositor devs going dwl route. Add functionalities yourself.
<asklow>
I wish I had time & priority customizing my workflow. Being getting more & more difficult lately.
<angry_vincent>
so is my thinking, i guess i will consider moving to dwl actually. not saying anything. river never framed to be a wm for all needs.
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<asklow>
River is an interesting project though. But if sticking to core "window manager" like functionalities, I think dwm/l does better job I guess. But you gotta know how to write code literally (apart from configuration).
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<leon-p>
well, sure, we do eventually want users to bring their own functionality BUT unlike dwl we don't like patches. We do it via user-space programs
<leon-p>
this means that configurationd don't necessarily have to be super personal. You could package them up f.e.
<leon-p>
like I have done with mine, see riverguile
<leon-p>
in the future I suspect people will write river-shells, so you'd have a range of behaviour-flavours to choose from
<leon-p>
at least that is /my/ plan
<leon-p>
(I personally probably will clone some of the looks of gnome, but scheme-scriptable and better keybinds and auto-tiling)
<asklow>
I would also like to script in shell instead of python btw. I don't wanna deal with different languages.
<leon-p>
not gonna happen: scripting requires direct access to wayland interfaces. That is not possible in shell.
<leon-p>
at least for complex things
<leon-p>
eventually trivial things might be shell scriptable
<leon-p>
but still, proper scripting for us means to honour "every frame is perfect", which excludes a lot of hacky things
<asklow>
Static interfaces like how riverctl controls river's ipc. That's what I'm referring to btw.
<leon-p>
in other words: features are implemented properly, or not at all
<leon-p>
asklow: there are also some issues there w.r.t. atomicity and communicating state between riverctl invocations
<leon-p>
I don't have the time right now to explain all that though, unfortunately
<asklow>
Just wondering how to achieve cycle-focused-tags without python for example.
<leon-p>
you could use any language that can talk Wayland, like C, zig, scheme, whatever 🤷
<leon-p>
just not shell
<asklow>
Understandable tq for discussion mate
<leon-p>
?
<asklow>
No I meant you don't wanna explain about riverctl invocations.
<leon-p>
I do want to. It's a lot more fun that the other task I am procrastinating right now. But that would be bad for my academic success :)
<asklow>
which is understandable. I too don't wanna deal with inner workings.
<leon-p>
unfortunately right now inner workings bleed through into the UI/UX
<leon-p>
maybe they won't in the future, who knows.
<asklow>
As a guy who's not into computers but wants to support libre software. This is where it got me into as of now.
<leon-p>
totally understandable. I hope we can make river a bit more approachable in the future
<leon-p>
(f.e. via river-shells)
<asklow>
But I'll continue keeping river aside sway that I daily drive. Keep configuring it until I understand everything & finally make a move.
<leon-p>
come back anytime you have questions!
<asklow>
Yup. Sway is too robust to leave for now.
<leon-p>
btw, if any riverguile users are wondering about it's future w.r.t the eventual WM protocol: Basically everything will continue to be scriptable in scheme, however I plan on shipping a default config which (hopefully) is approachable for people not obsessed with configuring their setup. Also I will probably add a way to define custom desktop widgets in scheme, so you could f.e. create a dock or taskbar. This also will have a default to something familiar.
<dagle>
I have to say that river is one of the easier compositors to write stuff for (custom tilers, status bars etc). While the wayland apis is a bit of a bump I prefer it to having a single fifo where I have to implement message filtering (I'm looking at you dwl).
<leon-p>
i.e. I want riverguile by default to behave like f.e. openbox with a panel: perfectly usable with all sorts of features. advanced users then can add things like tiling themselves.
<LarstiQ>
leon-p: sounds good!
<leon-p>
ifreund: btw, do you want to design the WM protocol yourself? Because from the PoV of wanting to write a WM, I already have a set of features I would like the API to expose.
<asklow>
Here's my feedback though: I mostly never cared about configurations & extra functionalities. My setup literally doesn't have anything, just a wallpaper that shuffles on each session. Not even bar. Everytime I change workspace, mako displays workspace name/number. Time & other status stuff is printed by bashrc on each terminal session. swayr manages all workspace/window stuff. I need the least maintenance when it comes to workflow.
<asklow>
And window inner/outer gaps are weird too. Rather, my setup has alpha to unfocused borders that itself acts as gaps.
<ifreund>
leon-p: I think I do yeah, though having a list of features you want in an issue somewhere would be helpful
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<Akawama>
I'm trying to config brightness keys, I've this in my .config/river/init file https://sprunge.us/hpLGor The command works fine in terminal but can't make it work with river. Please help.
<Akawama>
I tried it without '\' before quotation marks, but didn't work.
<leon-p>
Akawama: you'll need to quote the $ I think, otherwise it's just executed when the init is eval'd
<leon-p>
shell is so much fun
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<tiosgz>
oh, quoting in shell, lol. Akawama: single quotes take verbatim text up to next single quote. so you don't want to escape the double quotes, but instead of \' write '\''
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<tiosgz>
(that is, end single-quoted string, literal single quote, begin single-quoted string)
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<LarstiQ>
at that point putting it in a little script you invoke for one level less of quoting might be appealing
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<ayushnix>
I was wondering, does anyone see a brief white flash when switching to a workspace (or whatever the equivalent is in river) containing only Firefox? I've being seeing this happen in sway for more than an year.
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<LarstiQ>
ayushnix: I'm not getting that when I switch to a tag with Firefox
<LarstiQ>
I _am_ lately getting some pink flashes in Firefox, but haven't figured out yet when that happens
<ifreund>
ayushnix: iirc firefox renders everything in a desync subsurface which causes that issue to happen due to a race
<ifreund>
the reason it does this is that it uses gtk, and gtk wants to control the main surface
<ifreund>
its pretty sad :/
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<ayushnix>
ifreund, so this is a gtk issue rather than a wlroots/sway issue
<ayushnix>
I guess reporting it on the firefox bugzilla might help
<angry_vincent>
you can try. but gnome team tends to implement things on their own, gtk is being their thing
<ifreund>
ayushnix: no, a firefox issue. I don't think reporting it would do anything, they can't fix it without moving away from gtk I don't think which hardly seems likely to happen
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<ayushnix>
pity, if I'm not mistaken, firefox is the only software on my desktop which requires GTK
<ayushnix>
I've wanted to get rid of GTK but haven't because of Firefox
<ayushnix>
chromium also requires gtk but it can also use qt now
<ifreund>
I thought chromium had its own non-toolkit window system integration
<ifreund>
or maybe it just uses less of gtk than firefox does
<ayushnix>
probably
<ayushnix>
I saw issues in Chromium during the early days of sway
<ayushnix>
but haven't seen any since the past few years
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<leon-p>
a few years back I launched firefox from an nspawn container to get rid of GTK in my main installation
<leon-p>
then I came to my senses and realized the quest for minimalism gets me nothing
<leon-p>
these days I /almost/ like GTK. applications using it can look quite nice if designed well. Just the underlying technology (GObject and Glib) is horrifying...
<leon-p>
also weird is what things are automatic and what manual: you can have a fully functional tab / view switcher in a few lines, fully automaitc. But decreasing tab size if the available space gets too small you'll have to do manually...
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<leon-p>
many of the components the gnome team produces are actually quite nice, I also recently got to use GStreamer, which was a lot nicer than writing all format decoding and pipewire integration by hand
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<itshog>
Hello, is anyone else having trouble in compiling from source the stacktile layout generator?
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<leon-p>
itshog: what problems exactly are you facing?