00:27 <urosm> Anyone have any info regarding whether or when debian is going to package river?

00:36 <waleee> afaik they don't package zig which would make it impossible

02:12 <adamcstephens> wow, they don’t. that’s disappointing

03:18 <The_Buhs> Is it possible to add touchpad gestures to swipe between tags? I know tags are more complex than workspaces so it doesn't totally make sense, just wondering

07:52 <LarstiQ> Debian is not a "they", individual maintainers decide to package things, so if you want it you can contribute it

07:52 <LarstiQ> (though obviously there are some rules and limits to what can go in)

08:35 <tiosgz> The_Buhs: you may want to try https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Libinput#Gestures together with one of the stuff listed at https://github.com/riverwm/river/wiki/Recommended-Software#other

08:35 <tiosgz> (river-shifttags i think)

08:36 <tiosgz> but i don't use either & can't warrant it will work

15:22 <waleee> LarstiQ: there's guidelines for the package builds that currenttly makes zig hard to package even if debian isn't described as an gestalt entity

15:23 <waleee> (mainly the wasm-blob)

15:25 <LarstiQ> waleee: ah, check. It might also be a bit of a pain for zig version transitions breaking packages

15:28 <waleee> iirc it is the strict requirements for reproducability & bootstrapping for compiler packages that currently exclude zig

15:31 <LarstiQ> any chance that gets solved this year?

15:31 <LarstiQ> luckily it's not that hard to build river on Debian oneself

15:36 <waleee> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=995670

15:37 <waleee> it get's stuck at zig 0.11 since the bootstrap process changed

16:02 <LarstiQ> some more recent activity in the RFS bug

16:03 <LarstiQ> ach no, off by one year

18:16 <The_Buhs> @tiosgz thanks! I'll take a look and see if I can make that work

18:47 <adamcstephens> some debian policies really just seem to be in direct conflict with the way some more modern languages are doing things. for

18:47 <adamcstephens> and i think it's a bit nit picky to question my use of the word "they"

19:00 <leon-p> intuitively I am more sympathetic to the debian policies than to modern languages. user experience >> distro dev experience >> software dev experience

19:01 <leon-p> unfortunately I usually happen to be both user and software dev simultaneously, so things get complicated :)

19:25 <adamcstephens> as a huge proponent of distributions and packaging, I get it. I also think users are impacted when zig programs aren’t available

19:26 <adamcstephens> I spent some time looking into becoming a Debian maintainer. while I never ended up following through, partly because I found the policies in conflict with software developers, I did get a good idea of how it works

19:27 <adamcstephens> I think a distribution needs to balance both setting technical requirements for packaging, but also having flexible enough requirements to adapt to the way software is built

19:27 <adamcstephens> Debian fails at the latter in my opinion

19:30 <leon-p> eh, I think "modern" language just got too attached to a dev model where they are totally divorced from system libraries. The JS ecosystem should be seen as a bad example, not as something to emulate. But zig apparently will have a way to use zig libraries shipped with the system, if I understood that github issue correctly.

19:31 <leon-p> Debian of course is a bureuacracy monster, but because of that I consider it the most likely distribution to still be around in 50 years

19:32 <leon-p> anyway, enough off-topic, pizza time!

19:32 <adamcstephens> 🍕

23:12 <ifreund> leon-p: just landed actually, need to update river to zig master and test before 0.12.0 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/pull/18778