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<conordooley>
Got the polarberry out today, spent ages wondering why it wasnt booting - only to find out I had a broken wire on my serial port :facepalm:
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<jimwilson>
dormito, I would suggest github.com/riscv/riscv-openocd on the riscv branch, but I don't use it myself
<jrtc27>
I've successfully used various versions of upstream openocd with both a hifive unmatched and multiple different soft-cores on a xilinx vcu118
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<dormito>
jimwilson: thanks. I hae tried that one, and it seems to have the assert issues as well
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<conchuod>
palmer: do dts files get sorted in directories by soc or board vendor?
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<palmer>
conchuod: IIRC all ours are by SOC vendor, but they're essentially just dev boards right now
<conchuod>
I have two that the board vendor is not us
<muurkha>
conchuod: do you speak Spanish?
<conchuod>
ngl the duplicated microchip in our dts filename kinda triggers me
<palmer>
courmisch: the Kendryte boards are from someone else (sipeed, maybe?) and they're in the canaan directory
<palmer>
I don't really care that much either way, and specifically if someone like arm is already sorting them the other way around then I'm happy to doso
<palmer>
I never really quite understood the DTs in arch/riscv/, they're sort of examples but also sort of what people use
<conchuod>
i had a quick look at arm64, the ones that were obvious to me were sorted by soc vendor
<conchuod>
i guess ill go for microchip/vendor-soc-board.dts then, and people can object if they like.
<palmer>
OK, if we're both doing it that way then it's probably just to just stick with it
<conchuod>
muurkha: A small bit conversationally, but not really.
<palmer>
you can always point it out in the patch commentary, someone might care
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<conchuod>
Ye, can always CC arnd and see if he comments.
<muurkha>
conchuod: have you been using your nick for a long time?
<conchuod>
uhh, not really? this isnt really a nick - its my real name shortened
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<conchuod>
(and in Irish)
<muurkha>
oh cool
<muurkha>
Irish is hard to pronounce
<muurkha>
I thought maybe it was a Spanish joke
<Esmil>
i really like the rockchip scheme where there is typically a soc.dtsi, optionally soc-boardfamily.dtsi, and then soc-boardfamily-board.dts. it makes it easy to quickly see what files the dts inherits from
<conchuod>
preferably I would remove the microchip from the filename and then it would ~like that
<Esmil>
yeah
<arnd>
for arm64 we generally don't have the soc vendor in the file name, only the directory
<conchuod>
I am not sure if a rename like that counts towards breaking backwards compat? I guess not because the contents itself doesn't change?
<arnd>
on 32-bit arm, it's a little less consistent, and we never started using subdirectories per soc vendor
<arnd>
I would not worry about the file name changing
<conchuod>
Right, sounds good to me. Thanks :)
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<jrtc27>
or, you know, don't couple device trees with the kernel
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<dh`>
ideally things would be modular so that you can have one directory of soc data and another of board data
<dh`>
but I suspect it's already too late for that
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<vagrantc>
jrtc27: despite being a good idea, that just doesn't seem likely to happen. :/
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<jrtc27>
it won't happen so long as people accept that changing device tree bindings is an ok thing to do
<muurkha>
changing them in what context?
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<jrtc27>
renaming things, removing things that you could detect from the hardware but didn't have to in the past
<jrtc27>
often gratuitous
<muurkha>
oh, incompatible changes in device trees you've already shipped?
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<jrtc27>
firmware ships one version, linux imports that and changes it, newer firmware pulls in the newer version
<jrtc27>
then you have three choices: (1) assume people update firmware (2) vendor the device tree in your own OS and require people load it (3) add compatibility for both to your driver
<jrtc27>
unfortunately linux devs don't really care about the fact that other OSes exist when it comes to device trees
<jrtc27>
I deeply resented having to write that code
<jrtc27>
if we treated device trees like we treat acpi tables then this wouldn't happen
<jrtc27>
and the only reason acpi tables don't get treated differently is the tooling doesn't exist to replace them wholesale during boot
<jrtc27>
exists for device trees because the linux kernel and device tree bindings evolved together in the early days
<jrtc27>
and then people are in the mindset that it's ok to do these things
<jrtc27>
when it's really not required these days
<jrtc27>
so I'm in favour of acpi not because of technical reasons but because it stops people doing all this crap and making life harder for non-linux OSes
<jrtc27>
which can also hurt linux too when people get device trees mixed up
<muurkha>
jrtc27: condolences, agreed
<muurkha>
my experience with acpi on Linux is that sleep and hibernate worked in the apm days, stopped working in the apm→acpi transition, and never started working again even though it's been 20 years
<muurkha>
so I kind of hate acpi a lot
<muurkha>
even though that's just the P part and not the C part
<muurkha>
there *are* Linux machines with working hibernate with acpi, but that's because they use swsusp, which isn't especially reliable but at least avoids depending on acpi to do anything except power off
<muurkha>
and there *are* Linux machine with working sleep post apm→acpi transition, but that's because they don't have acpi, they're things like Android phones
<muurkha>
I appreciate that Linux on acpi machines generally does have more or less working hardware enumeration but the total clusterfuck that is power management makes it hard for me to appreciate acpi's good points
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