sorear changed the topic of #riscv to: RISC-V instruction set architecture | https://riscv.org | Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/riscv
Andre_H has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
alMalsamo has joined #riscv
pecastro has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
handsome_feng has joined #riscv
vagrantc has quit [Quit: leaving]
aburgess_ has joined #riscv
aburgess has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
jacklsw has joined #riscv
drmpeg has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
jimwilson has joined #riscv
drmpeg has joined #riscv
jacklsw has quit [Quit: Back to the real world]
jacklsw has joined #riscv
drmpeg has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
drmpeg has joined #riscv
alMalsamo is now known as lumberjack123
mrus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
mrus has joined #riscv
elastic_dog has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
elastic_dog has joined #riscv
kaph has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
riff-IRC has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
kaph has joined #riscv
riff-IRC has joined #riscv
BOKALDO has joined #riscv
joev has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
joev has joined #riscv
kaph has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
joev has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
joev has joined #riscv
EchelonX has joined #riscv
kaph has joined #riscv
jjido has joined #riscv
winterflaw has joined #riscv
<gordonDrogon> AVRs have I2C hardware - TWI (Two Wire Interface) was due to patents/copyright/etc. although that's all expired now. (AIUI)
<gordonDrogon> the BASIC version was done on a Pi which also has I2C hardware but the person didn't know how to access it from BASIC (which was a BASIC interpreter I wrote for Linux which supported a 'wiring' like interdate with digitalRead(), pinMode(), etc.
toulene has quit [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)]
toulene has joined #riscv
toulene has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
toulene has joined #riscv
jjido has quit [Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
toulene has quit [Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat]
toulene has joined #riscv
jacklsw has quit [Quit: Back to the real world]
tgamblin has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
tgamblin_ has joined #riscv
pecastro has joined #riscv
zenobit has joined #riscv
jjido has joined #riscv
jmdaemon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
jjido has quit [Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
adjtm has quit [Quit: Leaving]
adjtm has joined #riscv
Sofia has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
X-Scale` has joined #riscv
Sofia has joined #riscv
X-Scale has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale
<muurkha> gordonDrogon: aha, interesting
eroux has joined #riscv
zkrx has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
wingsorc has quit [Quit: Leaving]
handsome_feng has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
TMM_ has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
TMM_ has joined #riscv
zkrx has joined #riscv
Sofia has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Sofia has joined #riscv
tgamblin_ has quit [Quit: Leaving]
tgamblin has joined #riscv
raym has quit [Quit: technical problems, rebooting...]
raym has joined #riscv
geranim0 has joined #riscv
geranim0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
geranim0 has joined #riscv
toulene has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
toulene has joined #riscv
BOKALDO has quit [Quit: Leaving]
adjtm_ has joined #riscv
adjtm has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
jacklsw has joined #riscv
cwebber has joined #riscv
lumberjack123 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
freakazoid343 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
freakazoid343 has joined #riscv
BOKALDO has joined #riscv
freakazoid343 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
alMalsamo has joined #riscv
jjido has joined #riscv
mahmutov_ has joined #riscv
jjido has quit [Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
jellydonut has quit [Quit: jellydonut]
jleightcap has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shreyasminocha has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
sumoon has quit [Write error: Broken pipe]
ddevault has quit [Write error: Broken pipe]
sm2n has quit [Write error: Broken pipe]
raiaq has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
raghavgururajan has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
raiaq has joined #riscv
shreyasminocha has joined #riscv
sm2n has joined #riscv
raghavgururajan has joined #riscv
ddevault has joined #riscv
jleightcap has joined #riscv
sumoon has joined #riscv
crabbedhaloablut has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
crabbedhaloablut has joined #riscv
aerkiaga has joined #riscv
zenobit has quit [Quit: Leaving]
alMalsamo is now known as lumberjack123
jjido has joined #riscv
dh` has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
jacklsw has quit [Quit: Back to the real life]
motherfsck has joined #riscv
motherfsck has quit [Quit: quit]
motherfsck has joined #riscv
jjido has quit [Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
jjido has joined #riscv
jjido has quit [Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
vagrantc has joined #riscv
ivii has joined #riscv
freakazoid333 has joined #riscv
crabbedhaloablut has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
crabbedhaloablut has joined #riscv
Andre_H has joined #riscv
dh` has joined #riscv
___nick___ has joined #riscv
Narrat has joined #riscv
Narrat has quit [Quit: They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.]
Narrat has joined #riscv
crabbedhaloablut has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
crabbedhaloablut has joined #riscv
zjason has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Narrat has quit [Quit: They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.]
Narrat has joined #riscv
zjason has joined #riscv
<Xark> muurkha: I think you are right about LO and Z for "open collector" GPIO, works the same with FPGAs. :)
aerkiaga has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<muurkha> I am excited that next month I will play with FPGAs for the first time
sobkas has joined #riscv
BOKALDO has quit [Quit: Leaving]
___nick___ has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
___nick___ has joined #riscv
___nick___ has quit [Client Quit]
___nick___ has joined #riscv
dh` has joined #riscv
dh` has quit [Changing host]
___nick___ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<solrize> what is alphawave and this sounds like it can't be good. is it?
<jimwilson> SiFive has two core businesses, an IP Core business, and a chip business, OpenFive is the chip business
<jimwilson> OpenFive was making money, which helped support the IP Core business
<jimwilson> but OpenFive probably made SiFive a more difficult acquisition, since it was two businesses not one
<jimwilson> I don't know anything about alphawave
<jimwilson> the IP Core business is the one that people really care about, since it is the one that designs RISC-V cores
<gordonDrogon> other RISC-V chip vendors exist though... (don't they?)
jjido has joined #riscv
<muurkha> yeah, Baidu, GigaDevice, Espressif
<muurkha> sorry, not Baidu (afaik)
<muurkha> AliBaba's Pingtouge ("honey badger")
<muurkha> not sure where you can actually buy Pingtouge's Xuantie 910 though?
<muurkha> it's been two years, probably they have something better by now
<gordonDrogon> muurkha, I have my fpga board now - just need time to play with it :)
<muurkha> gordonDrogon: oh wonderful! which one did you get? was it the UPDuino?
<gordonDrogon> the Sipeed Tang 9K
<gordonDrogon> with the GoWin FPGA.
<muurkha> whoa
<gordonDrogon> I got the LCD display with it too, so in at the deep end ...
<gordonDrogon> my goal is to make a retro style little system with it, but who knows.
<muurkha> gordonDrogon: did I already tell you about my nutty energy-autonomous computing project?
<gordonDrogon> don't think so... energy-autonomous?
<muurkha> I'm sick of having to plug in my cellphone all the time, especially since I had a three-week power outage a few years ago
<muurkha> also modern cellphones fucking suck in a comprehensive array of ways, among which is that you can't touch-type on them
<gordonDrogon> I loved my old Nokia communicators - but they keypads are small. I use the glide type thing on android now.
<muurkha> yeah, but how many words per minute do you get on the glide type thing?
<gordonDrogon> not many, but I rarely send more than a txt message or 2.
<muurkha> qwerty touch-typing easily reaches 60, 90 in bursts, 160 for experts
<muurkha> I've read and written thousands of pages of Usenet posts on a 286/12, I know I don't need teraflops for a personal computing environment
<gordonDrogon> I read email on it, but only very rarely send email. I like my desktop for stuff like that.
<muurkha> me too. what i don't like is that my desktop stops working when the power goes out
<muurkha> and I can't take it with me on the bus or to a café or the park
<gordonDrogon> my bcpl system comes in at kiloflops...
<muurkha> see, that's why I thought you might find the concept interesting
<gordonDrogon> I am fortunate to live in an area with good power though.
<muurkha> even you probably don't have good power in the park
sobkas has quit [Quit: sobkas]
<gordonDrogon> well, no, but my lifestyle/workstyle sort of doesn't need it.
<muurkha> we've been using Moore's Law to get more and more processing power to waste on CSS layout algorithms, but what I'm interested in is more personal power
<muurkha> more autonomy, more freedom
<muurkha> so last year I learned about two innovations that ought to make a submilliwatt autonomous personal computer possible
<gordonDrogon> a 15,000 mAh battery box will keep my phone going for a good few days - unless I use gps navigation.
<muurkha> yeah, but how long is that battery going to last? it wears out after a few hundred recharges
<gordonDrogon> sub-milliwatt would be impressive - but the display?
<muurkha> also it's heavy
<gordonDrogon> phone is a google nextus 6 - I think it's 5 years old - and yes, the battery is fading now.
<muurkha> right, so one of the innovations is SHARP's "Memory LCD", which claims 50 microwatts for a 400×240 display
<muurkha> or 170 microwatts if you are updating it
<muurkha> wait, let me make sure I'm not lying
<gordonDrogon> so a bit like ePaper displays?
<muurkha> no, that's right
<muurkha> no, I had high hopes for ePaper displays
<muurkha> since of course they use 0 microwatts static
<gordonDrogon> they;re still a bit slow.
<muurkha> but they use a ridiculous amount of power to update
<gordonDrogon> 400x240 is a good 40-column display.
<muurkha> yeah, it should work well for that. it'd work as 80-column but you'd need a magnifying glass
<gordonDrogon> and a rubbish 6-pixel wide font...
<muurkha> 5-pixel-wide, same as an H-19 or VT-100 or CGA
<muurkha> or am I misremembering? anyway xterm -fn 5x8 is fine
<gordonDrogon> maybe, but I'm 40+ and need reading glasses!
<muurkha> me too, except I'm nearsighted instead of farsighted :(
<gordonDrogon> heh.. just tried xterm -fn 5x8... yea, it's right on the edge of my sigh with glasses unless I use magnifiers...
jmdaemon has joined #riscv
<gordonDrogon> however - on the workflow side - Appleworks is about what you need with an email client and a good text based web browser might get you some web functionality...
<muurkha> the problem is that it's 53 mm x 35 mm
<muurkha> but yeah, Appleworks is a good reference point
<gordonDrogon> great big fresnel lens - shades of "Brazil" ...
<muurkha> heh, I was just mentioning that Brazil scene to my girlfriend today
<muurkha> also I've been looking at videos of the first Macintosh versions, which had about 0.2 megapixels and 1 MIPS
<gordonDrogon> I could write a sort of word-processor and simple database for my BCPL system and a text-based email would not be too hard (I've done it before)
<muurkha> the other relevant innovation is that Ambiq has finally brought to market subthreshold-logic CPUs
<muurkha> "low power" CPUs in the past have been, like, 200 pJ per 32-bit instruction
<muurkha> there have been research subthreshold processors that were more like 3 pJ/insn
<muurkha> Ambiq's chips are about 30 pJ/insn but they're apparently actual products you can buy that work reliably
<jimwilson> OpenFive is a company that turns IP Cores into SoCs, so it helped create a market for SiFive IP Cores
<muurkha> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/15484 is a surface-mount breakout board for one of them. a 48 MIPS Cortex-M4F at 10 μA/MHz and 1.8–3.3V
<gordonDrogon> my '816 Ruby board is currently running at a 'massive' 171mA - but I suspect a lot of that is the Atmega too.
<gordonDrogon> jimwilson, they have their own FAB?
<muurkha> probably, the ATMegas are a bit power-hungry, about 2000 pJ/insn IIRC, and they're 8-bit instructions to boot
<solrize> what is the purpose of such a computer, with no internet?
<muurkha> solrize: well, having an internet connection makes it more useful, of course
<gordonDrogon> You can do a lot with local compute + storage - then 'web sync' when needed ...
<muurkha> but without an internet connection I can still have substantial local archives, like all the stuff Kiwix has, plus OpenStreetMap
<solrize> jimwilson etc.: are you saying sifive divested is chip business to make it easier to sell the rest of the company? i.e. to intel, per rumors
<solrize> with that tiny sharp display? i mean it is tiny right?
<muurkha> and even low-bandwidth connections like LoRa can be dramatically useful
<jimwilson> gordonDrogon, no, but they have lots of peripherals, and lots of experience working with fabs like TSMC
<muurkha> it's pretty tiny, yeah; https://youtu.be/uziFTK5c29k shows a handheld console with one of them
<muurkha> I want to use two
<muurkha> in my cardboard mockup they look ridiculous juxtaposed with a full-size QWERTY keyboard
<gordonDrogon> jimwilson, intersting, thanks. it's a whole world I know very little of right now.
<solrize> where is the autonomous power supposed to come from? with a roll-up solar panel you can keep a normal phone powered
<gordonDrogon> back to shades of the Palm Pilot and so on ...
<muurkha> solrize: built-in solar panels that can gather enough power to operate even from indoor light
<muurkha> like a solar calculator
<jimwilson> solrize, I don't know anything, so I can't say anything, but I find the sale curious, and one possible explanation is that someone wants the IP Core business but not the chip business
<muurkha> the cardboard mockup is about the size of a large smartphone or a pocket Moleskine when folded in half
<jimwilson> or maybe the VCs didn't want the chip business anymore, or maybe it wasn't profitable to keep running it
<muurkha> each half is 8 mm thick; hopefully I can make that work in real life with a bent steel sheet-metal shell
<gordonDrogon> so I now want a 'playdate' with RISC-V CPU.... and keyboard...
<muurkha> the space available for solar panels in the mockup would yield about 300 mW in full sunlight with 10% efficient solar cells used in solar calculators
<muurkha> yeah, that's pretty close to what I'm planning to build. except that so far Ambiq only has ARM CPUs unfortunately
<muurkha> I want to pot the whole inside in silicone to make it waterproof
<gordonDrogon> back to my original quest for a RISC-V system with about 512KB of RAM...
<muurkha> the only way I can think of to make it comfortably touch-typable and also fit in my pocket is to make it fold in half kind of like a Motorola clamshell two-way pager or Nintendo DS, but with the hinge on the short edge instead of the long edge
<gordonDrogon> wonder how much power the esp32-c3 uses without wi-fi enabled...
<muurkha> and made of steel, not plastic
<muurkha> that's an excellent question and one I'll be able to answer next month
<muurkha> the Ambiq CPU claims 68 μA plus 10 μA per MHz in the datasheet
<gordonDrogon> it was an early contended for me - has about 400KB of usable RAM and plenty of flash.
<muurkha> nice!
<muurkha> sometimes Ambiq claim 6 μA per MHz but it turns out that's running for (;;) ;
<gordonDrogon> I suspect this Tang board is somewhat power hungry, but I've no way to measure it.
<muurkha> can you try to power it off a capacitor and measure the capacitor's discharge rate?
<gordonDrogon> I'd haev to butcher a USB cable and if I'm doing that I might as well stick a multimeter in the way.
aerkiaga has joined #riscv
<gordonDrogon> bit given that the FPGA has 2 x !MB blocks of RAM plus an Arm CPU as well as 9K LUTs I suspect it's somewhat power heavy.
<gordonDrogon> might treat myself to one of those in-line USB power monitor thingy.
nun has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
jmdaemon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
<muurkha> yeah, those USB power monitors are pretty cheap, aren't they?
<gordonDrogon> just looked on ebay - £6.50 + postage, so yea.
<muurkha> and they may not be able to tell yu the difference between 0.1mW and 1mW they can surely tell you the difference between 1, 10, 100, and 1000 mW
<muurkha> *you
<gordonDrogon> I think 1mA resolution is pushing it for the cheap ones
<muurkha> isn't it more the routing that uses power on FPGAs than the SRAM and LUTs?
<gordonDrogon> I've really no idea.
<gordonDrogon> ebay 194319320391 is £20 but 0.1mA resolution.
nun has joined #riscv
<solrize> https://www.adafruit.com/product/4694 ouch that display is small and expensive
<solrize> you'd basically be building a fancy calculator
prabhakarlad has quit [Quit: Client closed]
<solrize> i'd get an inkplate or something like that, if you don't need fast display update
<gordonDrogon> yes, there is a limit to usability.
<solrize> why are small hdmi displays so expensive?
<gordonDrogon> however I did once write some software on the Epson HX20 - 4 lines of 20 characters IIRC ...
<gordonDrogon> hdmi royaltys?
<solrize> yeah you can, i mean i had a programmable calculator back in the day with 1 line
<solrize> but meh
<gordonDrogon> well, by todays standards and "wants", meh, indeed.
<solrize> hmm i didn't know about hdmi royalties
jmdaemon has joined #riscv
jjido has quit [Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
jjido has joined #riscv
mahmutov_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<muurkha> solrize: you could say "a fancy calculator" but it's a calculator with as many pixels as the original Macintosh and as much computational power as a Pentium
<muurkha> so I think you can do things on it that you can't do on a "calculator"
EchelonX has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<muurkha> writing an operating system on a couple of 15-line-tall screens is a reasonable thing to do. writing an operating system on a one-line screen is not
<muurkha> and did you check out the footage of videogames on a single one of those screens I linked earlier?
<muurkha> gordonDrogon: was the Epson HX20 similar to the TRS-80 Model 100? It sounds similar
<muurkha> (to be fair, when running at Pentium speeds it would use over a milliwatt, like maybe 1.4 milliwatts if we believe the datasheets)
aerkiaga has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<dh`> yeah, the epson came out first iirc
KombuchaKip has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
Andre_H has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
Narrat has quit [Quit: They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.]
jmdaemon has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
winterflaw has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
jmdaemon has joined #riscv
<solrize> muurkha, question is what could you use it for. it's more about the size of the screen than the # of pixels. i had an early laptop with cgi resolution and did lots of reading and homework on it, but it was a reasonable size and the laptop had a good keyboard
<dh`> there's a minimum number of pixels too; it's hard to do real work with less than 80 columns and 8 pixels per character is about the minimum for a legible font
<solrize> i remember a 3x5 font heh
<dh`> oh, you can do that, but using it regularly is pushing things
<sorear> 200 lines?
<dh`> 640x200 like the original amigas is definitely enough though
<muurkha> solrize: yeah, did you look at the games?
<muurkha> dh`: yeah, I think the limiting factor in https://www.adafruit.com/product/4694 is the physical size, not the number of pixels
<muurkha> which is kind of a new problem for me, I'm not used to it
<muurkha> it's 400x240 pixels but 53 x 35 mm
<dh`> yeah that's... almost small enough to be a watch
<dh`> maybe if you mounted one in front of each eyeball...
<muurkha> so in theory it has enough pixels for 80 columns and 30 lines
<muurkha> but in a 3.3-point font
<muurkha> you can see that a lot of the games on the Playdate have text on the screen, usually at a size that would permit about 10 lines of 6 words each
<muurkha> I'm planning to use two of the displays side by side, but still...
<muurkha> thus gordonDrogon's comment about Brazil
jjido has quit [Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]