klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<heat> vim users, what do you use for clangd language server support?
<Griwes> native neovim lsp client
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<Griwes> heat_: native neovim lsp client, in case that got lost in your disconnect
<heat_> yeah i saw it
<gog> hi
<gog> native neovim lsp client
<heat_> hi native neovim lsp client, im heat
<gog> i'm gogging
<gog> i'm fucken pogging
<gog> bazinga
<zid> neovim lsp client puts him into heat?
<zid> oh misread
<heat_> anyway thanks
<heat_> i need to figure out vim
<gog> i think i don't like writing code but if i don't do it i'll have to confront my existence
<gog> can't do that
<zid> yea fuck that
<gog> i'm unsubscribing and cancelling dealing with the trauma that lies at the root of my emotional dysregulation
<zid> "I'm a new gog, if the old gog owed you money, I'm sorry"
<gog> i tried that with the department of education
<gog> they weren't impressed
<heat_> ohhh wait im using vim, not neovim
<gog> i'm not sure if neovim is better
<heat_> but you're using it?
<gog> yeah
<Ermine> gog: may I pet you
<gog> yes
* Ermine pets gog
<Ermine> python's datetime is pessimal
* gog prr
<gog> as far as the way i use neovim, it's not different than vim
<gog> in some ways it feels smoother? maybe i'm making it up but i feel like it makes better use of terminal somehow
<gog> like the cursor moves faster and scrolling is better
<heat_> the fuck
<Ermine> afaik vim uses ncurses
<heat_> neovim is programmable?
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<gog> yeah it has a lua interpreter
<gog> i haven't played with that
<heat_> i need that for the language server
<Ermine> But idk what neovim uses. Most probably they use ncurses too
<heat_> i think
<heat_> i would like something that doesn't involve me git cloning a bunch of random repos
<heat_> but neovim requires random fucking code?
<heat_> with a lua interp
<heat_> fucking hell
<Ermine> wat?
<Griwes> you could write all the configs yourself, otherwise lspconfig is the only thing you really need to have a functional lsp client
<Griwes> other things are just for convenience
<Ermine> Idr the name, but there's a plugin which loads .so which can contact clangd in its turn
<Griwes> and while lspconfig is in a separate repo, it's still an official neovim thing
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<heat_> im so confused
<Ermine> But now that there's vimscript, maybe .so's are not required anymore
<Griwes> Ermine, all the things that directly interface with libclang are ages behind LSP plugins
<heat_> vim motherfuckers take you to 10 separate repos before getting to bare usability
<Griwes> literally usable with just neovim
<gog> i litearlly use no plugins
<heat_> i need a fucking plugin to autodetect tab width
<Ermine> Griwes: I'm not talking about libclang
<Griwes> https://github.com/neovim/nvim-lspconfig is a convenience wrapper for things
<bslsk05> ​neovim/nvim-lspconfig - Quickstart configs for Nvim LSP (1919 forks/7931 stargazers/Apache-2.0)
<zid> I've never used a vim plugin
<gog> literally
<Ermine> my vim does it automatically iirc
<Griwes> anyway I'm happy over here with my pile of neovim plugins
<Ermine> But anyway, heat_, there's difference between text editor and ide, so its's no wonder that you need additional code for features
<heat_> yes, such smart features as autodetecting tab width
<heat_> such IDE, much fancy
<zid> have you considered
<zid> using tabs
<heat_> no
<zid> "I hardformatted my files and now they're hardformatted" --heat
<heat_> "You can install completion-nvim and nvim-lspconfig with your favorite plugin manager."
<heat_> plugin fucking managerrrrrrrrr
<heat_> are you sure this isn't vscode but spread out over 100 repos
<Griwes> yes, because unlike vscode this is actually configurable
<heat_> vscode isn't configurable?
<Griwes> not nearly as much as vim
<Ermine> Completion hints do not suck only in GUIs for some reason
<Griwes> I recoil whenever I have to use vscode's completion thingy vs my neovim setup
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<Ermine> As for vscode, I'm fed up with pylintrc ceasing to work from time to time
<heat_> i installed lazynvim and now my terminal is a spaceship
<heat_> 10/10
<Ermine> Actually I want geany but not based on gtk
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<heat_> nanoooooooo
<Ermine> what
<heat_> this is like install arch linux all over again
<heat_> installing*
<Ermine> You mean installing plugins is like installing arch linux?
<heat_> most definitely
<heat_> >see a plugin
<heat_> >400 different configs
<heat_> >you just wanted to see what key you need to hit for completion
<Ermine> meh
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<heat_> its workingggggg
<zid> "There's an annoying amount of friction on letting random people run code in my editor" --heat
<heat_> it's funny that the difference between vscode and nvim is just the language interpreter :v
<Ermine> do they consume the same amount of memory?
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<heat_> no, but one is also a lot more user friendly
<gog> yeah nvim
* gog dabs
<Ermine> Idk, I switched between vim and vscode for several time, and each time both pissed me off
<zid> I've never used an IDE
<Ermine> s/time/times/
<zid> beyond a tabbed editor, does that count as an IDE
<Ermine> Also I was on nvidia back then, so vscode became messed each time my computer resumed from suspend
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<sham1> nvim > vscode, hands down
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<gorgonical> emacs > nvim
<klange> make your own editor; every good OS needs a good editor
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<Mondenkind> emacs: you either die the text editor, or live long enough to see yourself become the os
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<sham1> gorgonical: I agree
<sham1> But I was only comparing against VSCode
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<nikolar> heat re vim: there's a vim-lsp plugin
<nikolar> That works with regular vim and it's pretty easy to configure
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<mcrod> hi
<gog> hi mcrod may i hug you
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<mcrod> of course
* gog hug mcrod
* mcrod hug gog
<mcrod> seems like IAR copied -fsanitize: https://www.iar.com/crun
<bslsk05> ​www.iar.com: IAR C-RUN | IAR
<mcrod> although it's woefully inferior to it
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<gog> fucking goddamn chrome
<gog> i'm the only one here who uses firefox and it bites me in the ass sometimes
<mcrod> no i use firefox
<mcrod> oh? manifest v3 was delayed?
<gog> no, chrome doesn't implement "beforeubnload" as an event listener
<gog> beforeunload *
<gog> you ahve to use window.onbeforeunload
<gog> the event listener interface is superior
<mcrod> i don't know what you mean :(
<gog> oh
<gog> i'm talking about at work
<gog> i'm the only one at work that devs with firefox
<gog> everybody else uses chrome and so do most of our users
<mcrod> oh
<gog> but i hate chrome passionately
<mcrod> why
<gog> google data siphon
<mcrod> oh, sure
<mcrod> but i've just given up on that
<mcrod> i use firefox because no war on adblockers
<mcrod> that's the only reason
<bnchs> also no WEP
<bnchs> WEI*
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<gog> although the facebook data siphon was worse and did visibly affect my advertisements
<gog> at leat the ones that got through
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<Ermine> gog: may I pet you
<gog> yes
<Ermine> mcrod: the same. Also firefox's interface is customizable, so I undone Proton nonsense. At least for now
* Ermine pets gog
<Ermine> "legacy" in the feature name doesn't sound fun
* gog prr
<gog> proton?
<gog> ohh
<gog> i meant their javascript event interface
<gog> chrome doesn't implement "beforeunload"
<gog> you still have to set window.onbeforeunload to a function returning a non-null value
<gog> which is fine i guess but i use the event listener interface for several things
<sham1> Web/10
<Ermine> Is that event listener standard?
<gog> i guess not
<gog> firefox's living standard is superior don't @ me
<gog> i will take any position no matter how unreasonable if its logical consequence is "chrome bad"
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<Ermine> chrome bad
<Ermine> meanwhile python's datetime doesn't support leap seconds. How did they produce this?
<Ermine> (ofc this all is osdev related)
<gog> my deployment is going... ok i guess
<gog> it has unresolved problems that are hard to reproduce
<gog> i think there's a data race somewhere
<zid> gog: if you send me £50 that will prove chrome bad
<gog> ok
<gog> will you give me a printed certificate
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<zid> Chrome will cease to exist.
<sham1> Somehow I doubt that
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<zid> well I guess you'll never kno
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<mcrod> wtf
<mcrod> i'm not fucking crazy, right
<mcrod> if I have a memory range 0x017FFF - 0x008000
<mcrod> that's 65,535 bytes long
<gog> yes
<mcrod> so if I have a block "b" which starts at 0x008000 and has a size of 0x8135, that's 65,845 bytes long
<mcrod> which means that a linker error should occur
<gog> no
<gog> that's 33077 bytes
<mcrod> what
<gog> oh wait
<gog> so its
<gog> i don't undestand
<mcrod> I don't understand either
<gog> it startss at 0x8000
<gog> so its end is at 65845
<zid> is the memory range being backwards important
<mcrod> no
<mcrod> I'm saying
<mcrod> 0x008000 - 0x017FFF is 65,535 bytes long, and this is for internal flash
<mcrod> so in the linker script there is a block to say just that
<zid> >ROM
<mcrod> thanks that doesn't help me.
<zid> I wasn't attempting to help you
<zid> I was giving commentary
<mcrod> and the map file is saying that the block for it... starts at 0x008000, and has a size of 0x8135 bytes
<zid> which is half the size of the region.
<mcrod> explain that to me
<zid> 0x8000 is half of 0x10000
<mcrod> ok I see where i'm going wrong
<mcrod> 33077 is indeed correct
<gog> i'm always right
<gog> never doubt gog
<mcrod> (this isn't ld) so I don't know why I'm getting linker relocation errors within ROM
<mcrod> I shouldn't be
<gog> she is a genius and beautiful
* mcrod hug gog
<zid> rom is the one place I'd expect relocation errors
<mcrod> but _why_?
<zid> because rom isn't writeable
<zid> hard to do relocations on it
<mcrod> ok fair
<mcrod> i have no idea how to fix it.
<zid> we noticed
<mcrod> i told you guys before
<mcrod> linkers aren't my strong suit
<zid> okay?
<mcrod> :(
<zid> not sure what you're after
<mcrod> i want this to compile
<mcrod> and the manuals don't tell me anything
<zid> If you want help, you need to make a test case or something, "my thing is 33077 bytes but I am getting relocation errors" isn't enough info for us to help, only commiserate
<mcrod> i can't do that
<zid> Just the act of making the test case will probably be enlightening for yourself
<zid> and the point of a test case is that it's something you *can* share
<mcrod> i hate this.
<gog> meow
* gog hug mcrod
<gog> my deployment is actually going better than i anticipated. beyond a hiccup one of our agents was having
<zid> gog is MIB
<mjg> funny
<mjg> i somehow read this in military sense of the word
<mjg> thank you for your service gog
<gog> i'm braver than the us marines
<mjg> lol @ the numerous branches
<zid> go on then, eat an ENTIRE pack of crayons, I've seen them do it, that's brave
<mjg> don\t mistake bravery for lack of clue
<mcrod> i
<mcrod> hate
<mcrod> this
<mjg> i
<mjg> know
<mjg> this
<mcrod> Kind: The relocation directive that failed. The directive depends on the instruction used.
<mcrod> what the FUCK does R_STM8_DIR16 mean!?
<zid> 16 bit absolute I think
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<mcrod> maybe
<mcrod> good news is there's historical evidence in the project that no one else understood this moonman linker either
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<mjg> :)
<mjg> there is an interesting phenomena where a greybeard comes up with a fucked idea how to solve something
<mjg> it does the job, optimally or not
<mjg> but the logic behind it is so deranged nobody else can work on the project
<mcrod> it's just annoying that I feel like this should be a relatively simple solution
<mcrod> and yet, here I am
<mjg> i'm happy to be of no help with this issue
<mcrod> don't worry
<mcrod> if this was ld I would be asking more questions
<mcrod> but you guys can't help me.
<gog> i have a few of these deranged solutions that my boss didn't review
<gog> i have job security
<mjg> kinky
<gog> wha
<mcrod> to be clear
<mcrod> this linker script is literally the example one that IAR gives us
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<sham1> Ugh, today's commutes have been annoying in both directions
<sham1> Usually I can do this cycle just fine but today the phase of the Moon is clearly such that I just can't even
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<mjg> dude
<mjg> back in the day i had an office job where the fucking sun would be burning my eyes on the way there
<mjg> ... and on the way back
<sham1> That is also a thing, yes
<zid> I woke up super tired and my stomach in knots
<zid> so that was fun
<gog> first confirmed issue with my deployment
<gog> :(
<gog> it's a UX issue but still annoying
<sham1> ):
<mjg> was it even deployed if everything works
<mjg> :thinkingface:
<sham1> 🤔
<zid> Inform them that the UX is a premium feature and hand them a teletype
<sham1> Make them do things in ed!
<gog> it worked, it was just a glitch that caused a confusing state
<gog> apparently people ahve been working around it for 4 hours and only now reporting it
<mjg> :p
<mcrod> oh my god
<mcrod> yes
<mcrod> i almost got it
<mcrod> now I just have to figure out this error
<mcrod> er warning
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<mcrod> i did it.
<mcrod> jesus christ...
<gog> yay!
<zid> ergh, my guts are churning and my farts smell like death
<zid> did my bowels die in my sleep
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<gog> you'll be ok soon
<zid> because I'll be too dead to care?
<mcrod> gog will heal you
<gog> when your guts stop churning then you should worry
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<mjg> git shortlog --since="Jan 1 2023" -ns
<mjg> 164 Pedro Falcato
<mjg> lmao
<mjg> dead project
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<Hammdist> hi all. I'm trying to start up cpu1 in qemu -M virt -smp 2. but when I issue the smc #0 instruction, qemu goes into undefined. is this expected? does qemu actually even support psci?
<Hammdist> here is my current code, at any rate: https://paste.ee/p/PyDtU
<bslsk05> ​paste.ee: Paste.ee - View paste PyDtU
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<Hammdist> apparently at minimum one must use -M virt,secure=true to enable the feature in qemu. but it still does not work
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<Hammdist> ah I got it to work. the code value is different in QEMU I thought it was standardized
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<mcrod> gog
<bslsk05> ​git.kernel.org: file.c « client « smb « fs - kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git - Linux kernel source tree
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<gog> am i dumb and brushing up against my innate capacity or is programming really actually hard
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<nikolar> Maybe both ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯
<GeDaMo> "Brooks distinguishes between two different types of complexity: accidental complexity and essential complexity." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Silver_Bullet
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<geist> hmm, second time in a few months that the UPS that ihave all my computer network in just spontaneously shuts down
<geist> or at least that’s what it seems like, but i’m never around to see it happen
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<heat> mjg: what's with the heat slander?
<heat> this early? smh
<heat> very cursed driver btw
<heat> __u32, __u64
<sham1> > not uint32_t
<sham1> Yes, very cursed indeed
<mcrod> hi
<sham1> hi
* sham1 deposits fishy
<Ermine> camelCase? In my linux?
<mjg> cifs bro
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<gorgonical> gog: the programming is easy, it's the mental model part that's hard
<gog> maybe i am stupid then
<gog> :<
<gorgonical> i like to use the feynman rule that if you can't explain it to a 4 year old you don't get it. but imo turns out mentally mapping all this stuff is incredibly hard
<gorgonical> I've been writing a virtio blk driver for like two weeks and it took until yesterday to finally understand how buffers and descriptors actually work
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<gorgonical> writing in forth hurts my brain
<gorgonical> and I don't know if it's in a good way
<Ermine> writing forth is funnier than writing in forth
<gorgonical> what do you mean
<Ermine> writing forth interpreter vs programming in forth
<gorgonical> agreed
<gorgonical> the asm part was the easy part
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<gorgonical> and I used riscv
<gorgonical> So it could have been even more compressed
<gorgonical> oh I have a question about tty control characetrs
<gorgonical> So I have to ctrl+h to delete characters off my input, and while the interpreter won't underrun the input buffer, my screen session will. Is the interpreter supposed to "bounce" the cursor back at zero?
<gorgonical> If I'm at the start of the line and hit ^h, should the interpreter send back a "cursor forward" control character to maintain the cursor pos in the tty?
<sham1> 90% of programming is figuring the appropriate abstractions and the mental model. The other 90% is writing the damn thing.
<Ermine> And yet another 120% is breaking out of pessimality cycle
<sham1> Yes, and other maintenance stuff
<sham1> Oh and don't forget the changing requirements of the client. Those also need to be taken into account!
* sham1 cries
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<heat> Ermine: have you seen mm? lol
<heat> PageShit() is the norm there
<heat> and PG_head and shit
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<sham1> PG_heat
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<Ermine> heat: but aren't kernel devs anal on styling stuff?
<Mondenkind> __page_shit
<sham1> ____no
<Ermine> Noooooooo this is reserved !!!!!!!
<mjg> people dealing with stuff close to hardare like to do bullshit
<Mondenkind> yeah it's reserved for me
<Mondenkind> to page shit with
<Ermine> mjg: i.e. all osdevers?
<mjg> no
<heat> Ermine: mm has a different syle for histerical raisins
<zid> majora's mask?
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<sham1> LoZ: Memory Manager
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<heat> mjg: if you're checking my git stats mind doing a diff --stat for the whole year out of curiosity? thanks
<kingoffrance> i already smell the moneyball. someone will check github stats, to determine who is a good dev or not, and build a team
<gorgonical> I literally worked on a project like this at the beginning of my phd
<gorgonical> to use git commits plus loc plus traces to create a weighted score of "importance" to a project
<kingoffrance> "because he gets on base" -> because his code makes it to production it is a matter of time
<zid> heat: put me out of misery kthx
<heat> ok
<heat> what caliber?
<zid> erm, high quality ty?
<gorgonical> 20mm or so oughta do it
<heat> 9mm also works
<heat> zid is a lanky mofo remember?
<heat> peter crouch but computers
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<zid> heat: I need you to shave one side of your head like a power lesbian and hug me to sleep
<heat> what's a power lesbian?
<zid> It's like a regular lesbian but stronger and bigger
<zid> like, opposed to a dexterity lesbian
<heat> STR vs DEX moment
<Mondenkind> wouldn't a power lesbian be one who can cast a lot of spells then?
<zid> no that's a wisdom lesbian
<Mondenkind> no that's one who's good at casting spells
<zid> no that's an int wizard
<gorgonical> then what's a power wizard
<gorgonical> if we have wizard subtypes
<heat> linux kernel
<zid> power wizard hits hard with a staff
<gorgonical> I wonder if you could get away with using that as a dnd character name if your friends didn't know cs
<zid> *dead*
<gorgonical> I am Linux Colonel, master wizard
<zid> Linus Torvalds is a great wizard name
<heat> Linus Walleij is better
<heat> also probably in the top 10 wizard-looking linux kernel devs
<gorgonical> dennis ritchie has some serious wizard vibes with that beard
<heat> had
<gorgonical> right
<heat> RIP
<gorgonical> but the vibes live on
<heat> C vibes guys
<heat> everything's good, we have C UNIX vibes
<heat> we're safe until the C UNIX vibes run out
<nortti> cunix
<heat> i hope you realize how dirty that sounds
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<gorgonical> cleanix
<gorgonical> not dirty anymore
<heat> whew
<mcrod> i have done it.
<mcrod> i have acquired the power of linkers.
<mcrod> heat: your character was almost cursed
<heat> cool
<heat> cool
<mcrod> basically my fancy linker script at work now says "ok this section has to be at this address, this section has to be here, and i don't give a shit about the rest"
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<zid> How annoying, I have volumes 1 to 8 and 10 and 11 of this
<Mondenkind> of what?
<zid> Culinary Chronicles of the Court Flower_ Volume 9.epub get
<zid> imperial court drama thing about a cook
<gorgonical> are they translated
<zid> yes
<zid> But this is just filler while I wait for more honzuki ofc
<Mondenkind> 'crushed to death beneath a pile of books' hot, i wanna die like that
<gorgonical> how many isekai books start that way
<zid> 1
<gorgonical> I read half that first one
<zid> It's usually truck-kun
<gorgonical> in japanese and gave up because it was hard
<bslsk05> ​redirect -> www.reddit.com: Reddit - Dive into anything
<gorgonical> lol
<zid> I'm not a fan of japanese prose
<zid> that might just be my rudimentary japanese skill
<zid> Very stoccato sentence structure
<gorgonical> the hard part for me was the combination of so many new, low-frequency kanji compounds to learn and combined with casual language that made me uncertain with sentence meanings
<zid> yea I went into it as a sort of.. job
<zid> and still couldn't really make it through
<gorgonical> not a problem I ever have with german, where I can very effortlessly determine which words I can skip and not lose context
<gorgonical> But that's probably a skill level difference, too
<sham1> Truck-kun is very reckless
<gorgonical> but not wreckless
<gorgonical> ba dum tss
<zid> To be fair, they keep throwing themselves in front of him
<zid> and it's the hero's job to fight the demon lord, but it's truck-kun's job to send them to him
<sham1> I wonder if any Isekai has gone full meta and had the protagonist reincarnate as a truck
<sham1> They've already done a hot spring and a vending machine, so why nof
<zid> I like the mimic chest one it's dumb af
<zid> there's also an apple
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<zid> god my legs are sore
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<mcrod> i guess i shouldn't have sat on you
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<zid> opiates time
<gorgonical> gog iceland question: are chicken eggs harder to get than puffin eggs
<gog> what
<gorgonical> im eating egg curry and it occurs to me that chickens probably dont like the cold
<gorgonical> so why not puffins
<gog> lmao
<gog> we have a healthy supply of domestic chicken and chicken products
<gorgonical> im imagining that they look like the icelandic horses and have extra fluffy feathers
<gog> i don't know i've never seen an icelandic chicken alive with its plumage
<gorgonical> I think it's an interesting indicator that some foods are objectively bad
<gorgonical> That as soon as Icelanders didn't have to, hakarl became mostly a ceremonial food eaten on holidays
<gog> i haven't actually had it yet lol
<gog> i'm not really in a hurry to
<gorgonical> Pretty meh imo
<gorgonical> I had some at the flea market/fish market near downtown iirc. It was pretty mild I thought
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<zid> man, codeine is the shit
<zid> 30 mins later, guts are fine, legs are fine, having something to eat
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<heat> mjg, oi bruv
<heat> how is RCU walk with sequence counters supposed to work? I think both linox and freebshitd both do kinda the same thing