<PovilasCNC>
someone shown me this software just yesterday, it's really cool
<teepee>
I agree :)
<teepee>
not perfect, but as with all tools, quite useful when used for the right things :D
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<PovilasCNC>
I'm working as an entry level CNC/CAD/CAM machinist/programmer/designer and it pains me to deal with these proprietary programs like ESPRIT, Solidworks,.... When I get more experience trough work with those blobs and overall processes CAD->CAM->Actual_Manufacturing, I hope to contribute to opensource side of these things in some way
<teepee>
nice, CNC is probably an area where OpenSCAD is not perfectly suited as it can't handle single lines, only closed shapes
<PovilasCNC>
it seems that modeling screws might be simpler via openscad than via solidworks
<PovilasCNC>
but theres different kind of learning curve here
<teepee>
ideally, it's 2 lines of code ;-)
<PovilasCNC>
yes thats what I observed in some libraries github pages
<PovilasCNC>
even modeling a cube is quicker in openscad than solidworks
<teepee>
hehe, yes, that's the "hello world!" of OpenSCAD
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<peepsalot>
i don't really use MCAD myself, but one of the recent PRs has some fixes for lego modules which has me wondering... is there any potential issue (trademark / patent / etc) with actually calling it "lego" in source comments and filename?
<InPhase>
Yes, there is. That's a trademark.
<InPhase>
Although "lego compatible" is probably not formally a trademark issue, but lawyers can get finnicky about it anyway. Most commercial competitors say something like "compatible with all major brands".
<InPhase>
Or sometimes "compatible with the leading brand".
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<teepee>
peepsalot: that PR is from Jack21 I believe - I think there were patents but those have maxed out their lifetime
<teepee>
my understanding is that trademark does not protect from mentioning compatibility, but is supposed to prevent false or confusing claims to be the original
<teepee>
but then, actual lawyers might disagree
<teepee>
like if you are a car workshop you can use the brand names to say you service XYZ even though that's trademarked
<teepee>
> Klemmbausteine (auch Noppenbaustein oder Steckbaustein)
<Jack21>
i would like to remove the name "lego" as they are A-holes if you check news about QMAN (some compatible construction block producer)
<teepee>
now for benefit of our US friends, I'd propose Nippelbaustein :)
<teepee>
oh, even with whole section about legal issue regarding trademark
<Jack21>
i am just not sure if anybody knows what the lib does if there is not the name LEGO™ in it
<Jack21>
btw: would be great if you could add libraries from a list like in arduino .. at least for the mcad
<teepee>
that's the point, from just glancing over the legal section in that wikipedia article, it seems basically trademark only, no copyright or similar
<teepee>
so mentioning it somewhere in the docs is probably fine
<teepee>
saying "it's producing lego blocks" and then selling those under the name is going to be trouble
<Jack21>
they(lego) sues anyone on YT how shows rip-offs and calls them LEGO
<Jack21>
s/how who
<teepee>
yeah, that's what the trademark is for, don't pretend to handle the original
<Jack21>
my library producing those is called KBS .. and they look different but are compatible
<Jack21>
the thing is with 3D printing you can build them different /better as how they are produced in molding
<teepee>
while I don't think it's a good idea to sue those people, it's probably well covered by trademark
<teepee>
yup, that should be fine, the wikipedia article directly mentions multiple cases where even companies sell compatible things under a different name
<Jack21>
and the module calls "block" and iirc the name lego is not in there
<Jack21>
however strange that the thigiverse link is dead
<Jack21>
oh just see in the text for the examples the name LEGO is mentioned like it is producing that .. maybe i should change this
<Jack21>
yes .. but it said you get a "standard LEGO brick" with block(); .. that seemed a bit dangerous .. just changed it
<teepee>
indeed, better moving a little bit more to the safer side :)
<Jack21>
also that lib is really a pain - but now the flaws are fixed and i am not going to improve that any further, although chamfers and other details could be nice
<Jack21>
i just needed to make something for a friend .. and that the hole chain started with finding one issue after an other
<teepee>
that's the cool part about open source, people sharing things they needed/wanted to do so others can use it
<teepee>
which is why I generally don't like that "maker movement"
<Jack21>
yeah i love it - although there is a lot of bad quality especially on thingiverse - sure not everybody studied engineering so you find gears that are terrible
<Jack21>
wait isn't the maker movement all about open source?
<teepee>
true, it's not all rainbows and unicorns, but it's opportunities
<teepee>
that's the thing, from what I'm seeing, the "maker movement" is a very mixed bag
<Jack21>
i found a lib from a master perfect from the calculations and specs - but he had no clue about 3D printing and the models couldn't be assembled - Ü
<teepee>
some do care about open source but there's a whole lot of people just interested in getting a bigger audience on youtube for selling stuff (which is fine, I even bought some of that stuff)
<Jack21>
ah yes this kickstarter shit were companies finance their product launches
<Jack21>
(big companies who don't need kickstarter but it is better for their books)
<teepee>
but it's conflating fusion360 lovers selling designs with people sharing their stuff well documented on github for people who want to re-use or change the design (while still selling finished things)
<Jack21>
i remember when autocad (fusion360) changed their price model and suddenly some things didn't work anymore for free (like simulations FEM)
<Jack21>
or it is getting expensive to pull your models from their cloud
<Jack21>
in the end some Chinese rip off your design and sell it anyway before you can
<teepee>
I don't mind people using that stuff, but in my mind, if it's open source, it can't need a for-pay service to actually build/use/compile/...
<teepee>
like it's open hardware, but you need a $4000 tool to build from source, is not open hardware for me
<Jack21>
on the other hand we had this with the marlin hotend - as it is open source - someone manufactured them (what we never could) and now you can order them
<teepee>
well, that's annoying, but happens regardless of the license sadly
<Jack21>
BUZZWORT BS BINGO
<teepee>
like Ultimaker claimed to be open hardware but was (probably is) CC-NC
<Jack21>
i think lot people don't understand that even a CC-BY license means you can not use that (only privat)
<teepee>
which is great, if they share the designs but don't allow others to sell, that's a nice thing to do for private people who want to look into details or create stuff
<teepee>
but I think calling it open hardware is misrepresenting things
<Jack21>
or if a YT channel like to show this - but it is NC and they earn with advertisements - they can't show it
<teepee>
CC-BY is no problem, that's attribution
<teepee>
NC and ND are the non-free versions
<Jack21>
you can not print the name "superHackerMF" on your product because 1% is from CC-BY
<teepee>
hm? I've never heard that before
<teepee>
from what I've seen the BY mean, you have to mention the original author
<teepee>
and probably clearly state that it's modified
<Jack21>
i know this from music with CC-BY - if they like to play this they need to announce "this is from xy" (if there isn't a video were you can give credit)
<teepee>
there could be a separate issue if it's trademarked
<Jack21>
SA is also a show stopper if you have patents for parts and want to keep them
<teepee>
yes, things can be more complicated, CC only covers the copyright part
default__ is now known as sublim8
<teepee>
also CC does not work well for everything, which is why for hardware there's the CERN licenses trying to cover the various topics specific to hardware
<Jack21>
i understand people that they want BY .. there are some copy lot of design and share them as their own with a different license
<teepee>
I'm not even sure how licensing for openscad works in regard to having a license for the script and then the physical model produced by it
<Jack21>
i mean you can by flight gear for 100 ¥€$ in shops .. same probably could happen with oSCAD
<Jack21>
and the product in shop not even mention that it is the flightgear code they took, and added some models
<teepee>
for openscad being GPL2+ that would be even allowed as GPL2 has no attribution in the default text
<teepee>
same with thingiverse even modifying and not publishing the changes, that's ok with GPL2
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<Jack21>
.. ah now it was CRRCsim .. however
<teepee>
I believe the IceSL plugin did violate the copyright, but that probably does not exist anymore
<teepee>
right, or they moved "web service" skidding around the license :/
<Jack21>
they trick where they can - fortnight isn't for children, but as their online version can only bought digitally - there is no certification for age (in DE)
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<Jack21>
or how cloud server were licensed per CPU (NVIDIA) when games (UNITY) started using online computer power
<Jack21>
btw isnt that 3D blocks also oSCAD code base
<Jack21>
i have seen that github display stl files .. why isn't 3mf working is that sheduled (hard to search for github in github)
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<peepsalot>
any mac owners interested in helping to debug the mimalloc PR?
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<buZz>
Jack21: is 3mf that microsoft proprietary format?
<Jack21>
free open but microsoft has developed it (afaik)
<buZz>
> Autodesk, 3D Systems, Stratasys, HP, Microsoft came together to form a body known as the 3MF consortium.
<buZz>
yeah i'll ignore it further :P
<teepee>
it's open spec and MIT licensed library code
<teepee>
so pretty much as open source as it gets
<Jack21>
ah yes microsoft started using it ..
<Jack21>
(however their links are within the code )
<peepsalot>
its getting segfaults i think, but i don't have a stacktrace. not sure what is going wrong, if there is possibly a bug in mimalloc or I'm just not implementing it properly
<peepsalot>
its not very clear which of the various linking options are compatible vs target platform
<Jack21>
buzz: you will love it as it can do so much more
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<peepsalot>
teepee: you have a mac you can test on, right? would you be wiling to give it a try?
<teepee>
peepsalot: none that works
<peepsalot>
:(
<peepsalot>
well, nice to see kintel is a bit more active on github lately. wish he was in chat too, I'm assuming he's aware of the new channel? do you think I should @ him in the PR to see if he can help?
<peepsalot>
seen kintel
<othx>
kintel was last seen in #openscad 1 year, 155 days, 16 hours, 52 minutes, 22 seconds ago saying 'sounds good - just wanted to make sure it was mentioned. Merging as experimental makes sense'.
<othx>
kintel_ was last seen in 5 years, 118 days, 9 hours, 55 minutes, 18 seconds ago saying 'The sign.scad that you reference in examples.json. Where is that file?'.
<teepee>
I guess that part could be optional: autoconf automake libtool (for HIDAPI / InputDevice support)
<teepee>
the HIDAPI stuff is probably built by default, but it should be possible to build without
<Joel>
heh, it's like a never ending puzzle, lol
<Joel>
./bootstrap: line 2: autoreconf: command not found
<buZz>
Joel: apt install autoconf
<teepee>
just what I said
<teepee>
is that HIDAPI
<buZz>
:)
<teepee>
just skip it
<Joel>
skipping
<peepsalot>
cmake -DENABLE_HIDAPI=OFF ...
<Joel>
getting close, about 7 more deps to go
<teepee>
all the big ones still remaining :)
<Joel>
yeah
<Joel>
would be nice if this was parallelized
<teepee>
you can do that
<teepee>
the script takes parameter to build a single lib
<Joel>
qt, this should be "quick"
<peepsalot>
teepee: you mean the NUMCPU env variable?
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<teepee>
no, ./macos-build-dependencies.sh cgal
<teepee>
not sure if it also support NUMCPU, it might
<Joel>
he's suggesting I be in charge of making it parallel, instead of the script being in charge, which is of course a bit unreasonable :P
<teepee>
yep, it does indeed
<teepee>
it defaults to NUMCPU=$(sysctl -n hw.ncpu)
<teepee>
the main reason for the script is to build on the CI systems
<Joel>
it's most certainly not pulling and building deps in parallel
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<teepee>
it was a one man show maintaining a system without having the actual hardware
<teepee>
so yes, it's not optimized
<buZz>
:)
<peepsalot>
Joel: yeah the CI severs don't have much resources in terms of concurrency (ie they only give our process a single core or something), so highly parallel builds aren't well tested
<teepee>
considering the Apple hostility, it's great we even have access to some macOS CI
<Joel>
currently fighting xcode bs
<teepee>
even though it's limited to 500 minutes per month
<buZz>
its amazing they even still allow software
<teepee>
well, github is still more generous, but I'm wondering how long that will last
<Joel>
In general I am convinced my next job will be dump truck driver
<Jack21>
when using ctrl+shift+v (view all) an itersection of a small and a big object zooms out even the result is small - doesn't happen with a difference
<teepee>
I guess the bounding box of intersection is the addition of both bounding boxes
<teepee>
where on difference it's just the base object
<teepee>
might be possible to improve
<Joel>
qt building now
<Jack21>
if you using child operation and you don't know the size i using 500 with the result that view all vanish everything
<Jack21>
is there a best practice if it is best to use difference or intersection if you can choose?
<teepee>
I usually base it on some other metric of the design, like height and use something like 3*height for such general cuts
<Joel>
peepsalot running an errand, I'll keep the process going and ping you later today or tomorrow
<peepsalot>
Joel: ok, thanks again :)
<Jack21>
teepee sure if i can - but i have a module that is removing half of the child (at 0) - at the moment i calculate the viewable area und use this in preview and a bigger number only in render
<teepee>
there's probably not much other option right now
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<teepee>
I don't know if it's possible, but maybe it could calculate intersection of the bounding boxes
<teepee>
(assuming that's the issue)
<peepsalot>
i think i see where the problem is, working on a fix, there's even a //FIXME comment there
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<Jack21>
thx Ü
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<Joel>
peepsalot bombed out
<Joel>
this time on qt
<Joel>
seems like you'll def want access to an osx machine, lol
<peepsalot>
Joel: so the failure is still during building dependencies?
<peepsalot>
teepee: do all the mac CIs use homebrew exclusively? i haven't looked closely at kintel's recent changes, but i wonder if *only* the homebrew build is getting the relevant changes, and not the other method?
<teepee>
up to now, no
<teepee>
the release builds use macports for the compiler stuff and then build all the dependencies with a minimum macos version 10.9, just now upgraded to 10.13
<teepee>
the testing stuff uses full homebrew as that's easier to maintain
<teepee>
what kintel tries to do is removing the macports stuff as with the newer macOS that starts breaking due to picking up wrong libraries
<teepee>
so using homebrew for build env, but still use the dependency build script with macos-min-version
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<peepsalot>
Joel: can you pastebin a log of the build error?