<InPhase>
Interesting. The cache plays very favorably with this animation. :) It goes slowly through one oscillation of the wave wobble, then suddenly gets very fast. :)
<Jack21>
because it saves the geometry of each tile
<InPhase>
I think it's saving the whole sheet actually.
<Jack21>
ali1234: but there is nothing with arms and legs or did i missed it
<InPhase>
Well, maybe it's just the tiles. I don't know if our cache saves color.
<Jack21>
make frei =1 then there are no sheet anymore - Ü
<ali1234>
Jack21: at 7:15
<Jack21>
ali1234 thx i only took the meaning but didn't listen to the actual words - btw these exist in german too and are well differentiated there too
<ali1234>
yes, i know
<ali1234>
so that story smells made up to me
<Jack21>
i think the idea is what counts - and there you have much more in Leras talks how the brain is shaped by using words different or understanding the world
<Jack21>
think there is one about color - so that the name "blue" didn't exist for very long because that color couldn't be made and so everything was described with red or violett till then
<ali1234>
supposedly orange the fruit came before orange the colour
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<Jack21>
yeah oranges are normally green
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<ali1234>
but, like, that colour didn't have a name before
<Jack21>
yes
<Jack21>
there are also languages having the same word for blue and green - or in russian there is a blue green
<Jack21>
i once made a RGB LED that flashes in 256³ colors - but if you name them you didn't have more than 8-10 names
<ali1234>
well a funny thing about emitted light is... you can't make a brown light
<ali1234>
it's just orange, but less bright
<ali1234>
and most of the possible outputs are like that
<othx>
Jack21 linked to YouTube video "How Language Shapes Thought | Lera Boroditsky" => 2 IRC mentions
<Jack21>
all dark colors are difficult to obtain by additive mixing
<Jack21>
also some woman are tetrachromats they can literally see more colors
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<InPhase>
Jack21: I got the design done, just generating the 400 frames now.
<ali1234>
i have a mac now for testing safari. there's another problem there - the open doors show through the modal popup
<InPhase>
Jack21: I converted the cylinder into cube(0.01) in the end. It makes for a seamless effect.
<Jack21>
400 with these colors is getting big - what resolution you are using?
<InPhase>
Pretty high resolution. I'll see how big it gets. :)
<Jack21>
have you seen my cylinder replacement module ?
<InPhase>
I'm aiming for 50fps.
<InPhase>
I saw. But at cube(0.01) it's basically not even there at that point.
<InPhase>
No pun intended.
<InPhase>
Looks like this will be a 20 minute total animation generation process on my machine.
<InPhase>
Not including running imagemagick.
<InPhase>
But only 15MB of pngs, which should compress down to a very suitable movie file.
<Jack21>
it is not about the cube - you get more faces because the cubes are not in the same plane ..
<Jack21>
did you generate the animation from command line?
<peeps[zen]>
InPhase: are you using gimp to make the gif?
<Jack21>
imagemagick
<Jack21>
mp4 would also be an option (not sure how well that works with the website but html5 works)
<peeps[zen]>
ah, not sure how well imagemagick does with optimization, but gimp has been decent at it for me. i can give it a shot if you have a way to share the files InPhase
<Jack21>
can gimp load the gif and save it optimized ?
<peeps[zen]>
kind of, but probably not as well as having the source images
<ccox>
ImageMagick and GIMP can both optimize simple GIF images.
<ccox>
or Photoshop (my favorite, of course).
<Jack21>
i had that before that the image magick gif could be compressed much more with other software
<ali1234>
fixed the door 24 :)
<Jack21>
just tried the gimp export and saved ~ 9%
<ccox>
Could also try PNG-8, but probably won't save a ton unless it's a megabyte image.
<Jack21>
i would go with mp4 as there is a different compression involved
<Jack21>
apng is probably not saving much
<Jack21>
.. going to bed now
<InPhase>
peeps[zen]: I've been running convert from imagemagick to do it.
<InPhase>
Looks like it took 38 minutes instead of 20. Although since OpenSCAD doesn't stop after dumping pictures, it space-heatered for an hour while I was away. :)
<InPhase>
Hmm. I wonder though if kdenlive can handle this better?
<ali1234>
ffmpeg?
<InPhase>
Hmm, this guy from Japan in this video seems to be doing this with 150 png's from blender. Basically the same problem.
<peeps[zen]>
InPhase: oh, that was time from OpenSCAD dumping frames, not gif generation? i thought it sounded crazy high
<peeps[zen]>
you mentioned 15MB of pngs so I thought they were all dumped. i guess you were just extrapolating?
<InPhase>
Nice. kdenlive did perfect at this. 5MB webm file generated, flawlessly looping with mplayer.
<InPhase>
There are very few steps once I sorted them out. :)
<InPhase>
Now lets see if imgur corrupts it on upload.
<InPhase>
kdenlive's conversion was also much faster than the usual process I had been doing with convert. It was 10 seconds to encode 400 frames.
<InPhase>
teepee: I have an original webm of that which I can transfer direct to you.
<InPhase>
The old-footage-style flicker lines in there are artifacts produced by OpenSCAD itself. I tried to tweak to minimize them as best I could, but they always seem to pop out in this sort of thing.
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<InPhase>
There are also a lot of white speckle spots, but at 30fps they are hard to see.
<InPhase>
I was planning on 50fps, but then realized I goofed and made the dynamics far too fast to be pleasing. 30fps slowed it down enough to be pleasant.
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<InPhase>
teepee: By "we still need an image of the snowballs", should I shove it into the repository?
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<InPhase>
teepee: Okay, a png for the snowballs has been shoved in analogously to the others.
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<Jack21>
InPhase: nice animation - ( i still had increased the space "frei" between the tiles proportional to the amplitude )
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<tservi>
Hello
<tservi>
Impossible for me to transform my rendering file in a stl file.
<tservi>
I'm using openscad 2021.01 on ubuntu
<tservi>
openscad is carshing without error messages. Where can I find error messages?
<tservi>
I installed openscad with snap.
<tservi>
Probably there is an other way to calculate the stl file I heard of cloud or something... probably somebody have an URL to give?
<teepee>
what ubuntu version is that?
<tservi>
20.04
<tservi>
Ubuntu 20.04.3 LTS
<tservi>
the last lts version
<tservi>
in dmesg I can't find nothing interesting...
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<teepee>
hum...
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<tservi>
openscad is only saying : "Processus arrêté" in french
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<teepee>
no idea how to look into Snap issues, could you install from the PPA?
<teepee>
the native packages are usually better
<teepee>
tservi: ^
<Jack21>
tservi you may comment out the code and activate line by line to find what is causing it - i assume rendering a cube() works fine
<Jack21>
teepee: think i found door 21 - Ü
<tservi>
rendering the cube work fine.
<tservi>
thx Jack21
<tservi>
Probably there is an URL where we can render scad files?
<Jack21>
tservi you need RAM but if the website is giving a timeout i wonder about your code
<teepee>
cadhub currently limits to 30 seconds
<teepee>
Jack21: just added the 2 twitter designs
<Jack21>
so we are good .. maybe 25 and 26 .. i like to try InPhase Eye idea
<teepee>
hmm, the white background of the penrose gif looks a bit out of place :)
<teepee>
with all the others being dark gray 900x900
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<Jack21>
because it is special solstice day
<teepee>
aha, ok, nothing wrong with some special stuff :) - would it be easy to still update to square to fit the door better?
<Jack21>
sure .. i have mp4 as the gif was getting over 20mb in bigger resolution .. is mp4 an option?
<Jack21>
the problem is that on small windows i can not see the status bar telling me the size in oscad
<Jack21>
so probably i have to resize them with imageMagick
<Jack21>
also there is a PR waiting from ali
<teepee>
not really, i have no idea how to include mp4
<InPhase>
tservi: If you put your scad file at https://bpa.st then we can tell you if there is a problem with the scad file.
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<InPhase>
tservi: Most likely you just have some sort of video driver problem, but we can try to reproduce your issue as a test if you can share the scad.
<teepee>
wait, there's a decomposition.3mf ?
<teepee>
how did that work?
<teepee>
I was expecting a gif instead :P
<InPhase>
Well if you print it, it might be wobbly!
<teepee>
I suspect there's a wobbly exploding slicer before that
<InPhase>
I was just trying to make the necessary pieces for the system. ;)
<teepee>
3mf is optional
<teepee>
and we have a second one now for the penrose
<InPhase>
Yeah, doesn't need to be there. I rendered one frame on a lark.
<InPhase>
I didn't generate a gif this year. I jumped straight from pngs to webm with kdenlive, which worked a lot nicer.
<InPhase>
Those gifs are slow and oversized.
<teepee>
true, but fit into an <img> tag :)
<InPhase>
I thought you'd put the webm in there.
<teepee>
do webm work in <img> ?
<teepee>
that would be cool
<InPhase>
ali1234: Hey web person...
<ali1234>
hi
<InPhase>
ali1234: Show us these mystical arts.
<ali1234>
google "safari grid bug" and you find the answer on stack exchange :)
<teepee>
haha, yes, thanks for that fix, with that it's actually usable on ipad
<teepee>
InPhase has something quite different in mind though
<InPhase>
I was having trouble understanding the connection. :) Guess I missed the last issue.
<InPhase>
ali1234: So I can make a giant animated gif if needed. It's not hard, it just seems "wrong" and excessively bulky. Can we drop a properly looping webm in every place the image should go for the Decomposition entry?
<InPhase>
All the sites that do this professionally seem to have fully abandoned gifs for this sort of stuff.
<ali1234>
sure as long as you don't care about supporting older browsers
<InPhase>
Anybody with a browser that old is just going to ask us questions about OpenSCAD 2012 edition anyway. ;)
<ali1234>
maybe you actually want webp animation if it is supposed to replace an image?
<InPhase>
I don't know what that is, but maybe I do.
<ali1234>
i'm not entirely sure what the difference between webm and webp animation is though
<ali1234>
webp is more like gif, webm is more like mpeg... or something
<InPhase>
If it will help for me to render from kdenlive in a diferrent format, I can do that.
<InPhase>
They must have improved ffmpeg's auto-detection if that works. It used to requite much more arcane flags to do almost anything.
<InPhase>
Nope, that's still the ffmpeg I remember... "Could find no file with path 'frame00%d.png' and index in the range 0-4"
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<Alicia>
iirc it requires -f image2 for that
<Alicia>
oh wait ali1234 already said that
<InPhase>
There we go. I think I got it.
<InPhase>
Okay wow that's terrible.
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<InPhase>
That compressed badly.
<lf94>
Scadvent calendar when?
<Jack21>
lf94 hopefully tomorrow latest - Ü
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<InPhase>
And of course the examples from stackexchange on ffmpeg options don't work. Classic ffmpeg. :)
<ali1234>
yeah. if kdenlive works... i'm sure it can generate webp or webm
<ali1234>
InPhase: what's the openscad command to generate all the PNGs?
<lf94>
Jack21: okie :)
<lf94>
Jack21: is it because the whole thing is not completed or some website has to be setup?
<ali1234>
it's because it is not december yet
<lf94>
"hopefully tomorrow latest"
<lf94>
Implies a possible delay?
<Jack21>
no we are just in time
<lf94>
Ok ok :)
<InPhase>
Hmm. kdenlive only added webp support in their release from this summer.
<InPhase>
ali1234: The png's are generated with View, Animate, setting fps (30, but not relevant when it generates slowly) and steps (400 for Decomposition.scad), and then clicking "Dump pictures"
<InPhase>
ali1234: You stop animation by adding a non-number character to steps.
<InPhase>
ali1234: There is also a command line equivalent if needed.
<ali1234>
nothing happens when i click view -> animate
<InPhase>
ali1234: If you are wanting to try this conversion, I can private message you a link to a zip file. It takes 45 minutes to make all these pngs.
<ali1234>
oh wait yes it does, i see
<ali1234>
i have to do something that takes about 45 minutes anyway...
<InPhase>
(And I already did the work of framing it properly, which was tricky.)
<InPhase>
Note that it saves whatever is on screen however you frame the screen, so you have to adjust the display to exactly what you want output.
<InPhase>
Including sizing.
<InPhase>
And removing axes, and all that.
<ali1234>
how do i make it "go"?
<InPhase>
As soon as fps and steps are in, it goes.
<InPhase>
It looks like render would take a bit of time to process, but it previewed in under a second.
<tservi>
preview is ok on mine too
<tservi>
rendering is not possible
<InPhase>
How much RAM do you have?
<tservi>
8GB
<InPhase>
Okay, well the render is currently consuming 15GB and climbing.
<InPhase>
20GB...
<tservi>
Ok. Do you think I need a more powerfull computer to render this design?
<ali1234>
if fps is 30 and steps is 400 shouldn't the final time be 400/30?
<InPhase>
Either a computer with more RAM, or adjust the design to have fewer faces.
<InPhase>
It might be more complex than necessary.
<InPhase>
ali1234: It is.
<ali1234>
frame 234 time = 0.5875
<InPhase>
ali1234: time goes from 0 to 1 for $t
<InPhase>
ali1234: This is independent of the other parameters.
<ali1234>
why tho?
<InPhase>
0 to 1 not including 1.0
<InPhase>
It is a "fraction complete" parameter.
<InPhase>
I was just saying earlier we should have fps and steps available as variables as well so we can calculate the other values reliably.
<InPhase>
tservi: It's at 34GB consumed by now and climbing.
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<InPhase>
ali1234: I think the original thinking was that for little mechanical animations fraction complete makes the most sense. And I agree that usually a $t from 0 to 1 is pretty ideal for what I want to animate. Just sometimes I want frame-number or time value as well.
<lf94>
Would be nice to have it export to webm directly
<lf94>
Probably possible.
<InPhase>
lf94: Yes, probably.
<InPhase>
53GB and 96/1000 progress. I wonder if this thing will complete before it hits my 128GB hard cap. :)
<InPhase>
I'll let it try for another 30 minutes out of morbid curiosity.
<teepee>
not sure about webm, but I did a PR for video export some time ago
<teepee>
that needs a bit of dusting of :)
<teepee>
yep, webm was included
<InPhase>
Nice.
<lf94>
Get that PR in!
<teepee>
omg, that thing is like 5 years old
<InPhase>
Might be worth doing.
<InPhase>
teepee: You could have changed everything! ;)
<teepee>
true, openscad with video support, me starved to death ;-)
<InPhase>
65GB... I think this is the first time I hit swap on this computer for a real problem.
<teepee>
well, change the $fn = 200 to $fn = 500 and hit it even faster :P
<InPhase>
lol, yeah. :)
<InPhase>
I don't know about faster though. It sure takes a while to allocate all those pieces.
<teepee>
hmm, yeah, could be still slower if it takes lots more time to work on the smaller pieces
<Jack21>
all these micro cylinder deco have $fn200.. - Ü
<Jack21>
InPhase how can a export an animation via comandline?
<dalias>
you use it for impact resistance and stability under long term tension, not for raw tensile strength
<Jack21>
layer orientation is also a big change - but PET doesn't deform at 60°
<dalias>
yes
<dalias>
petg is good up to 90 or so
<Jack21>
at least there are some blends
<Jack21>
but if printed with .6 nozzle you get stringing - you will learn to design parts with minimal travel moves
<dalias>
if you have any stringing at all your printer has a problem
<dalias>
stringing should not be a thing in 2021
<Jack21>
with .6 nozzle you have .. with .2 nozzle you don't
<dalias>
0.6 does have a lot less hold
<dalias>
but there's an easy solution still
<dalias>
400 mm/s, 10000 mm/s² travel moves
<Jack21>
rip it - Ü
<dalias>
the retraction will hold it fien for the 30ms it takes to travel
<dalias>
:)
<JakeSays>
what are some strong plastics?
<Jack21>
also much cooling or you have a nozzle with valve needle
<Jack21>
PC POM PEEK
<JakeSays>
well, peek is not an option
<dalias>
ok, a little more than 30ms at that speed, more like up to 500 ms. but still should be ok
<Jack21>
TPU is yery strong but soft
<dalias>
95A or 98A TPU with 100% infill is crazy strong and hard
<JakeSays>
i read that tpu is good for printing sex toys
<Jack21>
PA
<Jack21>
you can hang 100kg on a TPU filament
<dalias>
you can hang 100kg on a printed M10 bolt in PLA
<dalias>
(i'd totally believe it just from my own playing around with them, but My Tech Fun did some fairly rigorous testing)
<Jack21>
filament is 1.75∅
<pa>
thanks for the ping! i didn't know about TPU, but can be a useful info :-)
<dalias>
ah you mean from the raw filament
<dalias>
anyway i love tpu
<dalias>
but jakesays, for your use case you probably want some kind of coating ;-)
<Jack21>
i have some .5 mm 2D like prints you cant't rip
<JakeSays>
lol i'm not making sex toys
<dalias>
unless it's one-time-use ;-)
<Jack21>
JakeSays - it is Ok, this is a safe place - Ü
<dalias>
for coating TPU, i suspect wood-finish PU would adhere to it well
<JakeSays>
lol i'd have no problem admitting if i were
<dalias>
same way it adheres to the previous layer of PU finish after sanding it
<Jack21>
But check for PC polycarbonate this is tough as shit - used for bullet proof shields
<Jack21>
but should have full metal hotend as it prints bit hotter
<JakeSays>
i bought a creality ender 3 v2 as a second printer. i'm questioning that decision.
<Jack21>
TPU can be made glas smooth with a heat gun
<dalias>
jakesays, what's your first one?
<dalias>
ender 3 is a solid choice for the base machine. the really bad things are easy to change (extruder and hotend)
<JakeSays>
longer lk5 pro
<JakeSays>
dalias: well, the thing is i dont want to have to make changes to get a usable device
<dalias>
*nod*
<dalias>
it's usable if you're happy going slow
<dalias>
but the extruder is really underpowered and skips if you try to go at all fast on petg or tpu, sometimes even on pla
<dalias>
it's mainly poor grip of the hob, also lack of gearing
<dalias>
i dont know what printers nowadays i'd be happy with "out of the box"
<JakeSays>
yeah i already noticed the poor quality of the hotend
<dalias>
i actually still use my stock hotend
<JakeSays>
i bought it to use to print parts for my own printer
<dalias>
and can print a good-quality 14 minute benchy with it
<dalias>
so the hotend isn't as limiting as ppl claim it is
<dalias>
mainly just being ptfe-lined keeps you from using high-temp materials
<JakeSays>
i was thinking of using a PC/carbon fiber composite filament for my printer parts
<dalias>
on my next printer i want a mellow nf crazy
<dalias>
for printer parts, most ppl just do abs or asa
<dalias>
petg will work even tho, imo
<dalias>
unless you want really high temp enclosure
<JakeSays>
yeah i think vorons are printed using petg
<Jack21>
jakesays: good choice .. have you seen the XL prusa printer - as they deal with some issues when going big
<dalias>
i follow the annex folks and they're all using abs and maybe asa
<JakeSays>
i read about it yesterday
<JakeSays>
i just desperately want a fast printer
<dalias>
i've never actually printed abs myself. happy without the fumes
<JakeSays>
same
<JakeSays>
i'd need to re-arrange everything to be able to vent the fumes outside
<dalias>
i dont think anyone is selling non-kit printers that are fast out of the box
<Jack21>
happy with PETG here - also waste can be recycled
<dalias>
probably they dont want to deal with complaints from things that suffer wear at high speeds
<JakeSays>
right, which is why i'm going to build my own
<dalias>
or the need to ship klipper to make it work
<dalias>
*nod*
<dalias>
i'm going to build a delta when i get around to it
<dalias>
aiming for <100g total toolhead mass with direct drive, possibly dual motors on each column (halving effective belt length and doubling torque)
<JakeSays>
Jack21: can pla be recycled?
<Jack21>
yes all plastics but all except PP PE and PET are not collected
<dalias>
jakesays, i dont think it's recycled commercially but you can do it at home with a $10000 machine or diy something yourself
<dalias>
you "just" need a way to shred, melt, and extrude it as filament
<Jack21>
some just take their waste on a griddle and make flats sheet for what ever use
<JakeSays>
i saw a kickstarter for an extruder that uses shredded plastic directly
<Jack21>
the point is that just with the colors you need to sort everything. So if you going to print 10kg+ per month you can think about this
<JakeSays>
hmm. and i saw another article about one made with a screw as an auger
<Jack21>
the issue is that they just get heavy - you can buy an auger at ali
<dalias>
i've never tried it myself but i think you can do a lot better than the expensive filament extruder setups out there
<Jack21>
normally a drill is better than a screw
<JakeSays>
also prusa stole my multiple hotend idea.
<Jack21>
the problem is consistency to extrude with different speeds by keeping quality
<dalias>
like, they all have delicate PID loops with filament diameter measurement
<dalias>
throw that out and cool the extrusion in a mold (precise ID PTFE tube, for example), or..
<dalias>
just overextrude and put it through a blade that cuts it to exactly 1.75 and send the shavings back to re-melt
<JakeSays>
it just takes so long to get stuff from ali
<JakeSays>
also i was going to order some pogo pins from them. they wanted $120 shipping for four bags of 100
<Jack21>
haha .. like when i checked for beans and found a cheap one - but had to take 10 tons
<dalias>
:)
<JakeSays>
dalias: i just came across that mellow extruder. looks nice
<JakeSays>
Jack21: 100 pins weighs a few grams.
<dalias>
jakesays, yeah. it's a "clone" of the slice mosquito but a better clone (more compatible with wider part ecosystem, etc.) and slice plays stupid patent games with stuff they didnt actually invent
<dalias>
(some of theirs is a real novel invention, but they also assert patent rights to parts they didn't invent, like the basic concept of structural soundness bolting the heat block to the heat sink body rather than treating the heatbreak as a structural part)
<Jack21>
JakeSays: yes i meant that if you order 100000 pins it became economical
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<JakeSays>
Jack21: lol they didn't have that option. each time i increased the quantity, the shipping charges went up by $25
<JakeSays>
i can get them on amazon sometimes, but they keep running out
<Jack21>
scam
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<Jack21>
on amz there a also some that add for each pack 2¥€$ additional so you think oh 10¢ looks cheap
<teepee>
now do I have updated everything... we'll see soon-ish I suppose :)
<teepee>
cron job is activated
<InPhase>
Just in time. :)
<teepee>
depends on the definition :)
<teepee>
hopefully all good for day 1, I guess checking all references and images is still open
<teepee>
but that's fine, it's way ahead anything we had in the last 2 years
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<Jack21>
24 days left till we need the decomposition animation file..
<JakeSays>
i need a little robotic arm to remove prints from the print bed when they're finished so i can keep printingggggggggggggggggggggggggggg more of them
<JakeSays>
for doing copies
<JakeSays>
LOL er, sorry about the g's
<JakeSays>
my home made keyboard controller has a bug in it
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<Scopeuk>
JakeSays i've seen people attack a stick to the extruder assembly for that pupose
<Scopeuk>
Not refined but for the right subset of prints it will work
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<Jack21>
i hate my windows
<JakeSays>
Scopeuk: huh. that's an interesting idea
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<JakeSays>
well that's just nifty - the longer lk5 pro and the ender 3 v2 both use the same usb serial adapter, and neither change the vid/pid. asshats
<JakeSays>
it's probably the exact same controller
<JakeSays>
i have a btt skr 1.4 turbo. wonder if it'd fit in the ender
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