13:26 <^-^hi> Wizzup, others, Have you inspected Halium? It seems it takes hardware support of Android to Linux for free.

13:27 <^-^hi> So you can focus on Hildon and stuff.

13:28 <Wizzup> it is for non mainline kernels I think

13:28 <Wizzup> which we don't care about as much

13:30 <^-^hi> Well, the Android kernels are pretty widely used (on billions of devices I think) so you don't lose much I guess.

13:31 <Wizzup> we don't aim to support vendor kernel

13:31 <Wizzup> s

13:31 <Wizzup> brb

13:36 <^-^hi> I mean Android's kernel got a big developer base behind it, and Halium allows for better hardware support, so it seems like good trade-off.

13:39 <^-^hi> And if blobs are a concern, one can use Android kernel without the blobs I guess (Not much point for doing so, but one can do that if one wants to go fully libre)

13:56 <uvos> ^-^hi: the reason we dont use android vendor kernels or vendor kernels in general has very little to do with blobs or free software concerns

13:57 <uvos> there are vendor kernels and hals which are fully or allmost fully foss, the ti vendor kernel comes to mind, but we would not support those either

13:57 <uvos> there are instead 2 other main reasons why we dont use vendor kernels:

14:00 <uvos> 1. vendor kernels add non standart interfaces. particularly on older android devices manny devices are exposed using interfaces that where custom desinged by the vendor for this one deivce, as sutch instead of just supporting one mainline interface for this device type we would need to support a infinte number sutch vendor interfaces.

14:01 <^-^hi> For 1, well Halium seeks to make a compatibility interfaces vanilla Linux can use. (Like ofono and friends)

14:02 <uvos> now of course you could use a userspace hal that abstracts these interfaces and the android hal is a wide spread one you could use, as you mention. but that is hardly a real soultion as even if you do use the android had different vendor implementations support different version of the android hal and we would still have to support non android vendor kernels and mainline kernels

14:02 <uvos> so we would still need several backends

14:02 <uvos> admittely problem 1 is mutch smaller if you focus on new android devices

14:03 <uvos> as google has made a large push to make android chip makers use mainline iterfaces instead

14:03 <uvos> and this has resulted in android just about almost runing on mainline linux

14:03 <uvos> anyhow

14:03 <uvos> 2.

14:03 <^-^hi> Well, I don't know about Android HAL but Hallium seems to do the exact thing you describe, and they have gotten so far.

14:03 <^-^hi> Look at the number of devices Ubuntu touch supports. Plasma mobile is also using it.

14:05 <^-^hi> I mean they already deal with that part for you.

14:07 <uvos> vendor kernels are unsuportable, because they are huge forks of mainline linux and are almost universally of terrible code quality making forward porting them to never versions of linux almost impossible even for the vendors themselves. for this reason the vendor kernels are coded once against some kernel version and almost never updated at all. this causes manny issues for us if we where to use these kernels, we cant use newer

14:07 <uvos> interfaces, we cant guarantee that our development devices will continue to work in the long run, we are unable to provide adiquate security patches to our devcies with old vendor kernels, the list goes on.

14:07 <uvos> fundamentaly we cannot guarantee any level of support for vendor kernel devices

14:07 <uvos> that said an afore mentiond modern android device with mainline style interfaces will work with leste as is

14:08 <uvos> in manny cases

14:08 <Wizzup> I don't see what we need from halium other than supporting more devices than we can manage

14:09 <uvos> thats the next thing, we could port for instances mce to also use halium interfaces

14:09 <uvos> but then all we would gain is a bunch of devices we can never polish to any working order

14:10 <uvos> while for instance the droid 4 provides a working mostly stable base for us to develop our system on without needing the added complexity of halium and an android hal of dubious quality in between

14:11 <uvos> anyhow ^-^hi is there some specific device you are thinking about?

14:14 <^-^hi> Nexus 5 perhaps.

14:15 <uvos> nexus 5 has a close to mainline kernel it can boot

14:15 <uvos> leste should just work on it

14:15 <uvos> if you are so inclined

14:18 <Wizzup> I had leste running on it in some form a few years back

14:18 <Wizzup> but then we still had h-d rotation problems, which are fixed now

14:18 <Wizzup> parazyd: do you have my n5? I vaguely recall that

14:19 <parazyd> Nexus 5? Yes

14:19 <parazyd> It's here

16:46 <sicelo> buZz: but is it true? [Leste being] 'only foss phone distro with bitcoin tools'

17:10 <buZz> sicelo: well, only i know!

17:10 <buZz> :D

17:11 <buZz> afaik debian etc dont have bitcoind anymore?

17:11 <buZz> oh, debian has electrum, nevermind

17:11 <buZz> :D

18:28 <Wizzup> will be fun to have others test the wireguard and tor stuff soon

18:28 <Wizzup> it's working quite well

18:28 <buZz> nice

18:28 <Wizzup> we just need to finish openvpn now

18:36 <uvos> how is power usage with opvpn

18:37 <Wizzup> no idea, I'm just working on it

18:37 <uvos> i could not keep it resonable even with keepalive 60 1200 set on the server

18:38 <uvos> not sure what else would help

18:38 <uvos> but openvpn keeps the device awake with manny wakeups

18:40 <Wizzup> openvpn is probably not that great sw in general, but it's in the deliverable :)

18:40 <Wizzup> i'd personally opt for wireguard easily

18:41 <uvos> ok well i have a farily big really old legacy setup i use thats also used by some frends/family so i cant really switch away from opvpn easly

18:42 <uvos> not entirely anyways

18:42 <uvos> i could go and bridge a wireguard vpn

18:58 <buZz> what was the link to that battery replacement pcb?

18:58 <buZz> was it for a flex pcb? or a normal one

18:58 <uvos> its a normal pcb

18:58 <buZz> but on the original batteries, the connector is a flex pcb

18:58 <uvos> dosent matter

18:58 <buZz> ok

18:58 <uvos> look at http://uvos.xyz/maserati/

18:58 <buZz> but would be cooler, no? :P

18:59 <uvos> sure

18:59 <uvos> yeah

18:59 <uvos> as would though plating the holes and gold plating them

18:59 <uvos> (thats serious you should do that if you have them made)

18:59 <dreamer> bling

18:59 <uvos> its optimized for me to be able to make it in my shop

18:59 <buZz> maybe i can remix the pcb into a tiny sliver of pcb

19:00 <buZz> and plate it, so 1 pcb = 6x

19:00 <uvos> shounds like a good idea

19:00 <buZz> and then, put one into phone, and use it to solder 'max fitting lipo' in it

19:00 <uvos> also though plate the hole and adds some pad to the backside to improve contact

19:00 <buZz> yeah

19:00 <uvos> dont forget to remove the solder mask

19:01 <uvos> also spec it for tin plating at least

19:01 <uvos> or gold would be even better

19:01 <uvos> also maybe

19:01 <uvos> (but this is getting more advanced)

19:02 <uvos> we could identfiy the connector used on some popular modern smartphone battery that fits into the bay

19:02 <uvos> and make a pcb that has that connector

19:02 <buZz> but that would still be limited to availability of that battery

19:03 <buZz> a pcb thats a solderable connector wouldnt

19:03 <uvos> yeah but most people are not goint to be able to spot weld a wire to a random lipo

19:03 <buZz> the 'random sized lipos from aliexpress' usually have wires bonded already

19:04 <uvos> true but they one i bought (this one http://uvos.xyz/maserati/screenshots/IMG_20201015_185706.jpg) dident work in the d4

19:04 <buZz> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32899881441.html

19:04 <uvos> because its picky about internal resitance

19:04 <uvos> hence the n4 battery

19:05 <buZz> hmm ok, we could maybe alter the resistance with some tricks

19:05 <uvos> no

19:05 <buZz> impedance you mean then?

19:05 <uvos> you could add some capacitance to make it work better

19:05 <uvos> but there is not enough room

19:05 <buZz> hm

19:05 <uvos> the battery simply has to have low ir

19:06 <uvos> those rc car batterys have low ir for sure

19:06 <uvos> but they ususaly have poor energy desity

19:07 <uvos> so yeah not sure what the best soltion is

19:07 <uvos> haveing some more of those wire connector pcbs would be good allready

19:11 <sicelo> Wizzup: available to test already? (openvpn integration)

19:11 <Wizzup> no

19:14 <buZz> uvos: yeah

19:14 <uvos> if you make some that are flex/gold plated i want one :P

19:23 <uvos> buZz: https://www.seeedstudio.com/fusion_pcb.html 100x100mm x 10 boars of those pcbs should @ 1.00mm bord thinkess + ENIG at 35$ shold make enough of the pcbs for everyone who wants one

19:23 <uvos> since you should be able to get at least 36 on one 100x100 pannel

19:23 <uvos> so 360 bits

19:23 <uvos> even Wizzup dosent have that manny d4s

19:24 <uvos> and Wizzup and clort probubly own 60% of the worlds inventory of d4s :P

19:25 <Wizzup> I doubt that

19:29 <uvos> exaggerating for effect ofc

19:29 <uvos> you own lots

19:30 <Wizzup> true

20:30 <freemangordon> uvos: libiphb0 FTW

20:31 <freemangordon> hi there, did I miss something? :)

20:55 <Wizzup> freemangordon: hi hi

20:59 <uvos> freemangordon: hi

21:30 <buZz> uvos: dreamer just bought 5 or something :P

21:30 <buZz> nearing clorts pile

21:32 <dreamer> nah, you'll take one. I'll take one. then couple more for those interested @ nurdspace

21:34 <buZz> sure

21:34 <buZz> :)