<remiliascarlet>
"too bad i hate dark themes" Never thought anyone could hate themes that are easy to the human eye.
<remiliascarlet>
SiFuh: "I'd inform them "A professional means they make money. It doesn't mean they are actually good at it"" Very true! Nowadays. there are very few professional developers that are actually good at programming. Far more of them aren't even programmers, they're framework users. They don't set servers up, they deploy cope containers.
<remiliascarlet>
SiFuh: "If someone said to me "My pronouns.." I would turn my back and walk away." Just troll them by saying "My pronouns are GNU/Linux", I've seen someone getting very triggered by that.
<remiliascarlet>
"what attracted me to CRUX was the simplicity and the fact that you can read the whole handbook in a matter of hour or two" What attracted me was ~the drunk penguin~ the fact everything is wide open, nothing got abstracted away, including even the init system.
<remiliascarlet>
Oh yeah, as an update on compiling the Monero GUI on a PinePhone: it failed at 62%, because musl.
<ukky>
Some devs love frameworks because it makes their work easier and they don't care about the quality
<remiliascarlet>
I have to work with PHP frameworks since the 2nd half of my career, I worked with just standard PHP during my first half. I have to say, using a PHP framework is orders of magnitude harder, because now all of the sudden you need to worry about 3rd party dependencies, something failing somewhere between the 200+ classes (abstraction layers) a single function goes through, it's impossible to just
<remiliascarlet>
printf debug (die debugging in PHP) the problem, every single problem is a pain in the ass to solve, you need to have a billion different manuals handy instead of just 1, and so on.
<nekobit>
remiliascarlet: i did the GNU/Linux pronouns thing for a while, very funny stuff
<remiliascarlet>
Oh, and upgrading PHP versions of programs made with a framework is an absolute pain in the ass too.
<nekobit>
I remember playing with PHP when i was younger. I made an entire chat program in pure PHP and i got a github issue from someone asking why i didnt use a framework
<remiliascarlet>
"PHP 7.0 comes with all these breaking changes, so you need to change these 10 things you made, in addition to the 6 million things you didn't even know are there."
<remiliascarlet>
nekobit: I got people asking me before, but at the time I didn't even know what they meant by "framework".
<nekobit>
nor did i
<remiliascarlet>
Meanwhile, now people no longer talk of "PHP developers", but more like "Laravel developers", "Symfony developers", "CakePHP developers", and so on.
<nekobit>
i dont do php or web dev anymore for a good reason
<remiliascarlet>
Same.
<remiliascarlet>
I do for my dayjob.
<remiliascarlet>
Just no longer as a hobby.
<remiliascarlet>
In my hobby projects, I prefer to use Go for web development.
<nekobit>
Go seems cool for that
<nekobit>
i still whirl up some shitty Perl sites for my own good
<nekobit>
Rust seems cool for that
<nekobit>
I hate the web
<remiliascarlet>
Perhaps the only web dev language left where there isn't a massive push for using frameworks, and the community still insists on keeping things simple.
<nekobit>
throw the mediocre stuff at ir
<remiliascarlet>
Rust isn't really a web development language.
<remiliascarlet>
Web devs do have this weird habbit of trying to make things work that's not intended for it. Like putting Javascript (a frontend language) in the backend, turning PHP (a procedural backend scripting language) into an OOP MVC thing (which is normal for desktop GUI development), turning Ruby, Rust, Java, and Python into web dev languages through frameworks, and so on.
<nekobit>
well wtf are they supposed to do?!
<nekobit>
yeah they can use PHP, cool awesome but what else?
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<brian|lfs>
is there a tool to find out where my issue is with prt-get: cyclic dependencies found
<jaeger>
Maybe prt-get deptree will show you where it comes in?
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<cruxbot>
[core.git/3.7]: sqlite3: update to 3.44.2
<remiliascarlet>
nekobit: You can use Perl or Go as well, just like PHP, these are web backend-first languages. In the end, you choose what you use, but I personally believe we should use the right tool for the job, and I can't believe how that isn't common sense these days.
<remiliascarlet>
To me using Rust/Ruby/Java/Python for web development, Javascript for backend development, or PHP in an MVC framework sense is like calling a man a "woman" (or vice versa), using a hammer to tighten a screw, and using a bazooka to kill a mosquito respectively.
<remiliascarlet>
Isn't it funny how until a few months ago, the far left would label you an "antisemite" if you'd even say the word "Jew" completely out of context, and then Israel/Palestine happened, and now all of the sudden it's OK to be an antisemite.
<ppetrov^>
being from Eastern Europe, for me it's funny what "left" means nowadays
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<remiliascarlet>
Put a babushka in it, and make it lame and gay.
<tilman>
who has op in here?
<ppetrov^>
what is op?
<tilman>
"channel operator"
<ppetrov^>
ah
<remiliascarlet>
I don't know, never seen anyone with OP powers here.
<remiliascarlet>
Yet another great thing of being an obscure distro; there's no real need to use OP powers anyway.
<tilman>
dude, if i had op you'd already been kickbanned
<remiliascarlet>
Let's not give you OP powers then.
<remiliascarlet>
Wouldn't want to see these being abused.
<nekobit>
remiliascarlet: i think there barely even is a right tool for the right jov
<nekobit>
sure some languages like php are definitely best routed
<remiliascarlet>
nekobit: There is. You wouldn't clean your dishes with a hammer.
<nekobit>
except these "cloths" you would refer to are in fact hammers too
<remiliascarlet>
Likewise, you wouldn't build websites with a language designed to solve problems on the desktop.
<nekobit>
websites are hosted on a desktop, no?
<nekobit>
or desktop machine, rather
<remiliascarlet>
Sure, it's possible, doesn't mean it's a good idea.
<nekobit>
to use, say, a C++ framework, designed for the web?
<remiliascarlet>
Which is exactly my point.
<nekobit>
there are applicable use cases, really
<remiliascarlet>
Why is there such an urge to make something into what they're not?
<nekobit>
like a web config
<nekobit>
there is no rules really when using a language
<nekobit>
stuff like php just have the luck of the draw because they generate web pages almost like fancy macros
<nekobit>
usually like a cgi extension, some even use that
<nekobit>
cgi is technically what makes any option possible
<nekobit>
fcgi, too
<remiliascarlet>
There are no rules in programming in general, but might be a good idea to have them, especially in software used by millions of people every day.
<remiliascarlet>
PHP is a webdev language, C is a systems language, man is a male, and woman is a female. Even though there is a GTK binding for PHP to make desktop programs, it's still a website making tool. Even though there's surgery and drugs that make men slightly ressemble females, they're still males.
<nekobit>
You remind me of a guy
<remiliascarlet>
And turning a language into something it isn't is exactly what hurts the language in the long run.
<remiliascarlet>
So many people hate PHP because people try so hard to turn it into what it is not.
<remiliascarlet>
And then blame the language itself for it.
<r0ni>
php ruined my marriage!
<nekobit>
Diffie, is that you?
<nekobit>
You even type like him
<remiliascarlet>
Never heard of Diffie.
<nekobit>
Agh, fine, but you really remind me of some guy
<remiliascarlet>
It's true that I use different names on different services, so I won't fault you for that.
<nekobit>
remiliascarlet: what are your thoufhts on the anime Rozen Maiden?
<remiliascarlet>
Never watched or read it before, but looks interesting.
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<nekobit>
remiliascarlet: it was a diffie test, he would say he loved it
<nekobit>
but hey i loved it too
<nekobit>
anyway i get your point, there are languages made for the web, and some are better than others in terms of bugs and memory management
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<ukky>
farkuhar: wrt FS#15, what if we embed lib64, usr/lib64, usr/var, var/mail, and var/run symlinks into pkgrm? We might just silently skip symlink removal unless port name is core/filesystem, or print friendly warning.
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<farkuhar>
ukky: if you embed into pkgrm only those symlinks, then the bug might still be triggered when updating a port like json-c (see jues comment from 20130405). My thought was to use the filesystem itself to resolve symlinks, and make the comparison that way. See http://ix.io/4s0B
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<ukky>
farkuhar: I need to think about it, taking http://ix.io/4s0B into consideration
<ukky>
farkuhar: thanks for the link. Definitely all thoughts and doubts should be considered to fix these issues properly
<farkuhar>
ukky: it looks like the 2006 July thread was derailed not just by focusing on the directory permissions issue, but also by quibbling over style and formatting of patches. If they had treated the two bugs in different threads, someone might have come up with a solution to FS#63 like the updated prtcheckmissing that I attached to my comment there.
<ukky>
yes, a failure to focus on a specific issue complicates effort finding a solution. But sometimes a fix should consider multiple issues at once. Still checking Changelog whether anton's patch went ahead
<SiFuh>
I called the wife's iPhone's GPS stupid because we were 2 streets away from the destination which she didn't know and she launched the GPS and iPhone's idiot shit made us drive 17 KM more around the city. Now she is angry with me. Apparently I have a bad attitude because of my opinion towards her idiot phone and idiot GPS
<SiFuh>
She has been sour from 12 hours because of that. :-P
<SiFuh>
Mind you. I drove the entire way until that point on street signs and no GPS. She just found it convenient at that last moment to use it
<SiFuh>
I actually am not sure why she opened the GPS. We only needed to right then left and it is on the right. But her iDiot iPhone said we must turn left in 400 meters. I said but it is on the right. Why are we turning left? So I followed her which I knew was wrong from the start. Then insulted her GPS when it was obvious what was going on and now I am the bad guy?
<SiFuh>
Actually when we were leaving she asked "Did you bring your GPS?"
<ukky>
farkuhar: I stopped analyzing anton's patch as soon as I saw 'template' and renaming of the original variables. But I will continue reading the thread.
<SiFuh>
I said "I don't have a GPS". She said "The one you use in your truck." I said "No, why would I?" She the said "Well I don't have" I asked "So you didn't bring your phone" She said "I did but I know you hate it and I wont use it because we always have argument when I use it" I told her to shut up and followed the street signs for 2 hours. So yeah, No idea why she launched it 2 streets away
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