<remiliascarlet>
Dependencies is my reason to hate NodeJS and all the other non-vanilla Javascript stuff so much. node_modules always ends up being heavier than a black hole.
<nekobit>
oh in japan?
<remiliascarlet>
Yes.
<nekobit>
like the anime and touhou place? where the trees blossom pink and the working conditions are great desu?
<nekobit>
i mean there arent a million rust jobs either heh
<nekobit>
but its one of those languages designed for corporate purposes, not pretty in a hobbyist way but just built up enough to throw any project at it
<remiliascarlet>
Cherry blossoms are only pink in April (or March if you're in Okinawa, or May if you're in Hokkaido).
<nekobit>
i know, im kidding, i know its hell there too
<remiliascarlet>
Working conditions used to be terrible, but it has been watered down over the past decade, because younger people aren't like their parents were.
<nekobit>
i live in a cia prison called america where i can work by drinking coffee all day and pretending to care
<remiliascarlet>
Younger people tend to be more likely to put family before career. Boomers and gen-xers are the other way around.
<nekobit>
interesting
<remiliascarlet>
And the other thing is that the government tries to stimulate companies to accept more foreign workers as labor shortages keep getting wider as time goes on, but very few companies are willing to do so because of the language barrier.
<nekobit>
remiliascarlet: > ai development
<nekobit>
likely not to happen
<remiliascarlet>
AI dev is done primarily in Python these days, which is why I think Lua is a possibility.
<nekobit>
I think Luas embedded stuff is what makes it shine and its incredibly "portable syntax"
<nekobit>
im a big fan of premake, lua build system like cmake
<nekobit>
> amazing interface to C, via LuaJIT
<nekobit>
well thats wrong, no???
<remiliascarlet>
If I had to make my own large language model, I would prefer to use Lua over Python,
<nekobit>
Python is pretty good for AI due to its performance and convenient and understandable syntax for things like arrays, lists, etc
<nekobit>
i think python is a bit faster than lua
<nekobit>
ofc all ai stuff is likely C
<remiliascarlet>
Python itself is slower than Lua actually. Unless that has changed recently, but I doubt that.
<remiliascarlet>
All the well known AI stuff is currently done in Python.
<nekobit>
really, luajit? i should look into that
<nekobit>
not like i care about performance between the 2 at all tbh
<remiliascarlet>
Even OpenAI isn't shy to admit that ChatGPT is made in Python.
<remiliascarlet>
Well, ClosedAI, let's call it what it really is.
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<nekobit>
everytime i boot windows now it has this ai shit i dont care about
<nekobit>
now its in the taskbar and i removed it
<remiliascarlet>
I haven't used Windows in decades, so no idea how it even looks like or works.
<remiliascarlet>
Not like you can know how it works anyway.
<nekobit>
i still just use it for some games
<nekobit>
nothing else
<nekobit>
also testing my software on windows
<remiliascarlet>
"Hey, wanna buy Monero without KYC? Use spendit.finance!" *visits spendit.finance* "Just a moment... Enable JavaScript and cookies to continue" FUCK!
<remiliascarlet>
I run all my games on Linux. If it doesn't work on Linux, then I demand a refund.
<remiliascarlet>
Any game that has DRM is an instant skip to me.
<nekobit>
yeah man, big supertux fan
<nekobit>
lots of fun pure foss games though
<nekobit>
but sadly i am hurt by anticheat drm in a few games
<nekobit>
and kvm gaming is marginally average performing
<remiliascarlet>
Anticheat is blatant malware, which is the last thing I want to deal with.
<remiliascarlet>
The best solution is to play single player-only games.
<nekobit>
i sigh when i say its so tense for a reason
<ukky>
farkuhar: My Pkgfile patches do not add or remove features from build system. Patches are made to replace init system, remove some dependencies, replace eudev. So, I guess, my setup is still CRUX
<nekobit>
people just fucking cheat, and anticheat efforts are always flunked somehow to a crazy degree
<nekobit>
it is malware, but windows is like malware, so i keep it all on windows
<remiliascarlet>
We didn't have problems with cheaters 20 years ago, because the concept of hosting your own dedicated servers was still normal.
<nekobit>
games like tf2 had this issue, even in custom servers
<remiliascarlet>
Although Wine was pretty crappy, but some games, even MMOs were at least playable.
<nekobit>
it sucks, but its not quake days or something where people wanted to crack down and relax
<nekobit>
valve has handled linux anti cheat pretty poorly at least with TF2 (google "tf2 bot problem"), but idk what goes on in csgo, seems like sunshine and rainbows there and thats valves engine
<remiliascarlet>
The only problem with dedicated servers was that cheaters only got banned off servers that were well moderated. But on those servers they tend to get banned almost instantly.
<nekobit>
yes its sad and i hate it, but drm anticheats almost always fix the problem esp for massive multiplayer games, i.e. fortnite
<nekobit>
unless people want to exploit those drm drivers
<remiliascarlet>
Now everyone plays on the same server to get monetized off of, the cheaters get their way, and legit players get banned over crazy leftists or rightists reporting you over bullshit they don't like.
<nekobit>
yeah that rabbithole is cancer
<nekobit>
some companies are anal about it
<nekobit>
some of those games i dont even play despite having windows
<nekobit>
i mean yeah, i like how tf2 has casual servers and ones you join
<remiliascarlet>
Hello fellow lambo drivers, PHP 8.3 just came out.
<r0ni>
nekobit: as far as handling packages, install 'pkg-get' and you can have packages handled by the OS, as far as comparisons to slackware... slackware isn't from source, only adding to it is. And there are also plenty of people who maintain packages for slackware as well (myself is one). But slackware ships with a diff ideal, as it's meant to be a complete system OOTB, where crux is very "build-your-own".. different styles and purposes
<remiliascarlet>
OOTB = Ocarina of Time Bootleg?
<r0ni>
yes
<r0ni>
"out of the box" is you can't put that together
<remiliascarlet>
Oh, I see.
<r0ni>
is=if even
<nekobit>
i actually really didnt like its whole "complete system" ideology if anything, at least when installing it
<nekobit>
i know its a beginner friendly approach too, but it sure was hesitant to say "RECOMMENDED"
<nekobit>
I dont need 16gb of packages... :)
<remiliascarlet>
I like "complete system" in the BSD context, but not in the Linux context.
<r0ni>
I like slackware but honestly don't install much of it
<nekobit>
i wouldn't even consider if what slackware was was calling that "complete", it just dumps everything onto my disk
<nekobit>
cool uh... but i dont need 6 text editors, at all..
<remiliascarlet>
The spirit of Linux IMO is that it's a set of building blocks which you choose to scramble together, whereas the BSD's are all systems put together by a dedicated team.
<r0ni>
i skip over half of the system, as I'll never use it, but it comes configured, which can make a huge difference to many
<nekobit>
well yeah, they fully makes sense
<nekobit>
is slackware really bin?
<nekobit>
i thought it was all tar files with code inside and a makefile
<r0ni>
yep, has been since i've used it in the 90s
<r0ni>
since at least 4.0 when i started with it
<remiliascarlet>
r0ni: I don't like that. Back in the old days, you would get a base system, and you'll be putting it together. Today it's more like you're getting a complete solution, and you have to throw things out.
<nekobit>
oh, durr, guess i shouldve dug more into it
<nekobit>
i really really like the idea of half-source half-binary package managers, and yeah, ill look whatever i can to see such a thing in CRUX with my free time
<r0ni>
slackware is very monolithic but i've also learned much thats there is things i'd install anyway, so it becomes an issue of how much time one has to waste
<nekobit>
because honestly, source-based is impossible on something like a laptop or netbook... works fine on desktop, but kind of a waste of time IMO to a degree if thats all you do
<nekobit>
my case with gentoo was when i would set dev flags on certain libraries so i could debug better
<nekobit>
i love that about source based distros
<remiliascarlet>
I have CRUX literally on a ThinkPad X200.
<nekobit>
but.. i dont NEED to compile firefox :)
<r0ni>
all my crux desktop does is build software, which i use pkg-get to give to my laptop ;)
<nekobit>
nor do i want to
<remiliascarlet>
CRUX ships pre-compiled binaries for Firefox.
<nekobit>
lots of software compiles fast
<nekobit>
but chromium
<nekobit>
rust
<remiliascarlet>
I can't even compile Firefox on a Ryzen 7 gaming PC, it's that stupid...
<nekobit>
eugh
<nekobit>
esp gentoo was quite rolling and i kept recompiling that stuff
<remiliascarlet>
Rust comes as a binary on CRUX too. Not sure about Chromium, and I don't care.
<nekobit>
waste of my time man
<nekobit>
any software in C++ takes ages regardless
<remiliascarlet>
Anyone who makes websites that are only compatible or tested with Chromium deserve to be hung.
<remiliascarlet>
Because C++ devs don't know how to KISS.
<nekobit>
Chromium has a really snappy engine and arguably better security than Firefox, but i do hate the google attachment and now all the adblock shit going on
<remiliascarlet>
Still not as bad as Rust, even a simple "Hello World" program compiles way too long IMO.
<nekobit>
Oh yeah, and firefox has a lot of Rust now
<nekobit>
chromium still takes light years compared to it
<nekobit>
its those big chunky softwares that makes source based distros forgettable and sometimes "aged"
<remiliascarlet>
Soydevs made it so that it's literally impossible to have a 3rd browser anymore, so you have to choose between pure evil or pure evil.
<nekobit>
kde, qt, stuff, etc, all toolkits have a webkit inside them all
<remiliascarlet>
There are some browsers out there that are neither Gecko nor Blink, of which only 2 have extensions, which are necessary to make the "modern" web more accessible.
<remiliascarlet>
Pale Moon and Basilisk.
<remiliascarlet>
One day, we'll make Netsurf great again.
<nekobit>
webkit isnt full on cancer since its so pretty easily embeddable
<nekobit>
but its still the "third" browser
<remiliascarlet>
Last time I tried Webkit, many of the crypto related websites wouldn't work, and banks told me to fuck off and "upgrade my outdated browser".
<nekobit>
i think gtk webkit is just old hah
<nekobit>
and you can always fake user agents
<nekobit>
gnome web is ass and its friends
<remiliascarlet>
I used qutebrowser before, and then it became such a memory hog that I stopped using it.
<nekobit>
qutebrowser was ass
<nekobit>
i tell you mean i did kde development for a bit and tried maintaining an old program but everything at KDE is a disaster
<nekobit>
people love kde but under the hood its a rushed disaster
<remiliascarlet>
I like the color schemes of KDE, but hate everything else about it.
<nekobit>
for fucks sake, they dont even know if they want c++ stl or qr STL!!!
<nekobit>
breeze is pretty neat
<nekobit>
*qt
<remiliascarlet>
I use Krita and Kdenlive, these work nicely.
<nekobit>
krita and kdenlive are their nicest software (kdenlive is *ok*)
<nekobit>
even snappier than the Kde plasma
<nekobit>
after KDE 3 everyone got drunk or lefr
<nekobit>
left
<remiliascarlet>
I keep being told to change to alternatives, but DaVinci Resolve is proprietary, and Olive Video Editor is just too much to relearn, and still Qt.
<nekobit>
kdenlive is the best we have
<remiliascarlet>
And still in early development for years too.
<nekobit>
when i say bite the bullet and either use kdenlive or some adobe software i unfortunately mean it
<remiliascarlet>
Adobe doesn't exist to me.
<nekobit>
i feel you on that
<remiliascarlet>
They refuse to bring their proprietary software to Linux or BSD, then I just won't use it.
<nekobit>
well sadly its really high quality software with horribly incompetent marketing teams and CEOs
<nekobit>
im sure the people who make adobe think the same
<nekobit>
but its truly the marketers ruining it because linux "doesnt have the market share"
<nekobit>
and ofc it will be proprietary, just how stuff like that will always be
<remiliascarlet>
The other thing is, do you even need to use Adobe? GIMP, Krita, and Kdenlive do everything I need to do.
<nekobit>
GIMP? l. m. ao.
<nekobit>
Krita? Actually i do use Krita for a lot, love it
<remiliascarlet>
The only thing it would be useful would be for Illustrator, because every single business card printer requires me to submit .ai files.
<nekobit>
Kdenlive... its, okay.............
<remiliascarlet>
I use Krita for digital art, and GIMP for memes.
<nekobit>
i do use gimp for my maymay production
<nekobit>
and memes suck, gimp is accustomed to it then
<remiliascarlet>
Memes are part and parcel of internet culture.
<nekobit>
missed my point
<nekobit>
kdenlive; any editing beyond arranging clips, maybe adding simple effects, it kind of blows
<nekobit>
its good for quick stuff and all that
<nekobit>
but even those annoying popular linux youtube channels probably use adobe software (out of no respect, if anything)
<remiliascarlet>
And unless you're a professional film producer, you probably won't need much more.
<nekobit>
i think "convenience" comes out of adobe stuff if anything
<nekobit>
things people frequently do are shortcutted and efficient to do
<nekobit>
in foss software theres usually a crick in my neck while doing it
<remiliascarlet>
More like people being brainwashed since high school into using Adobe products.
<nekobit>
i actually used all foss stuff before i tried some adobe stuff for complex things
<nekobit>
i was brainwashed by gimp and its gimped layout
<nekobit>
donations help foss stuff because money really does motivate all sorts of people
<nekobit>
but so little money is involved in that
<nekobit>
and stuff like Manjaro happens
<remiliascarlet>
If you want to preserve privacy: "Your download will start soon..." ETA never.
<nekobit>
i couldnt give 2 rats ass about tracking shit.. its gross yeah and i love to avoid it, but its all bullshit for advertisers and "marketers" who think statistics will save the world and not genuine user feedback and communication from users
<nekobit>
but yeah i get your point
<remiliascarlet>
I avoid tracking more because I don't want to get my personal information in the hands of the types of people who can't even get their security right.
<nekobit>
thats a very good point too
<nekobit>
people view corporate "privacy" issues like theyre just a single hand and puppets zapping people and/or lending them drugs to write code that submits all the users files to the fbi
<nekobit>
its more like a company making terrible marketing decisions and all sorts of scummy advertisement rings + bad security and other issues
<remiliascarlet>
This is another reason why so many people here are against the MyNumber Card system the government pushes so hard for.
<remiliascarlet>
Not so long ago, somebody accidentally found an exploit where they scanned their card on their NFC reader, and could access somebody else's account through it.
<nekobit>
you can just put cutesy mascots on anything and the Japanese will fall for it
<remiliascarlet>
They tried with a rabbit mascot, and still under 10% of the population got a card.
<nekobit>
the site is so funny
<nekobit>
"A fairer and more just society"
<nekobit>
in my dreams
<remiliascarlet>
Then they tried to lure people with special discounts and 5000 points for a point card of choice, and only 18% adoption.
<remiliascarlet>
Then they had enough, and started threatening people by centralizing the health care system into the MyNumber card.
<remiliascarlet>
Even with that they didn't get everyone on board, so now they have to come up with a backup plan for those who don't have a MyNumber card, even though that "backup plan" has already existed for decades.
<nekobit>
seems like an interesting place to lice
<nekobit>
live
<nekobit>
i could never live there, it seems too crowded by nature
<SiFuh>
How ridiculous. I went to open a bank account and they said I need a marriage certificate. I asked why. He said proof you are married. I said that the visa says I am married, it even has spouse and her name on it, and she is standing right beside me. He said he doesn't make the rules and that he also needs my tax file number from all the countries I have ever worked in. WTH?
<SiFuh>
He kept on asking what is the account for? Apparently 'for money' isn't a good enough reason.
<SiFuh>
So I was not allowed to open an account.
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<remiliascarlet>
Heh, reminds me that from February I will no longer be able to use one of my bank accounts, because they will require you to use an iOS or Android app in order to do online banking, which is ridiculous.
<SiFuh>
Yes, that is what happened to me. My Australian bank account which I almost never use has a security key. The battery is almost flat. So when I asked to replace the key they said that I need to download an app that will replace the key. What is really, really, funny though is that the app doesn't work outside of Australia.
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<SiFuh>
Oh, and another thing. He said if I open an account for personal use it must strictly be used for personal use. If I am caught using it for business purposes I will have my account suspended and I will be fined. I said "So if I receive a salary from a business that you will suspend my account? He said no, business only. I said but that is business and it isn't any of your business to begin with. Money is
<SiFuh>
money regardless.
<SiFuh>
Maybe I just convert it all to gold
<remiliascarlet>
SiFuh: It can get worse. A decade ago I heard of some country introducing NFC-based payments, so the interviewer asked a bank owner "what shall somebody do if their phone gets robbed?" to which he responded with "just call the bank to tell them your phone has been robbed".
<remiliascarlet>
Literally like that!
<SiFuh>
Reminds me of that short story from Australia
<ppetrov^>
hi, been going through the TODO list for CRUX 3.8 and it all seems very nice. Only thing about prt-get: any plans of making it aware of new dependencies introduced when doing prt-get sysup?
<SiFuh>
There was a discussion about it awhile ago. Not sure if it was acted upon
<ppetrov^>
so, python2 will be gone
<SiFuh>
Should be that way
<ppetrov^>
well, good riddance
<ppetrov^>
(says the guy who still keeps gtk1)
<SiFuh>
gtk3 is blurr
<ppetrov^>
heh, don't get me started...
<SiFuh>
I do hope I offend them. They are all retards and no different from the twats at KDE ;-)
<r0ni>
gtkde wen
<ppetrov^>
r0ni, don't...
<ppetrov^>
:D
<SiFuh>
Heheh
<r0ni>
;)
<SiFuh>
They both lack efficiency and they just make ugly shit they they cover with flowers and sugar.
<ppetrov^>
GTK3 is so ugly, nothing can cover this
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: You can cover a pile of shit with more shit ;-)
<ppetrov^>
farkuhar, yep, you've mentioned your fork. Any chance of getting such functionality officially?
<ppetrov^>
SiFuh, true
<ppetrov^>
i have no idea why, but it really irk me how they tried to make GTK3 "interactive": e.g. fonts dim when window is inactive (what if I want to read sth from it? Scrollbars don't have handles or are too thin or disappear)
<ppetrov^>
I would not call Xfce "lightweight" anymore
<SiFuh>
The file manager sucks massively
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: they started discussing my fork over in #crux-devel, but if they receive more endorsements from early adopters and beta testers, it would make the decision easier.
<ppetrov^>
so, I jump back on the CRUX wagon and start using ;)
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<r0ni>
i'd been using the updated pkg-get, haven't looked at forks of prt-get yet
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: your troubles with Malaysian bank officials reminds me of the crummy translation I got from a Malaysian lawyer. What we wanted her to translate was "let the property pass to the next in the line of inheritance", but we got a mess of additional legal verbiage in the document that eventually went to the embassy.
<r0ni>
hell i'd use a alpha3.8 if one exists
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<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Hahahahahaha
<SiFuh>
To be 100% honest. Everytime this squirt of a man was opening his mouth and telling me bullshit, I was thinking how easy it would be to snap in half.
<SiFuh>
i was telling the wife "So we are in the jungle and this guys has found a Durian tree and we are hungry but because he found it, we can't have it. What do you think will happen to him if he said that to me?" And she said "Oh, yeah, I see now"
<SiFuh>
It's like the Vogon's from the Hitchikers Guide to Galaxy. It's just worthless nonsense that we must shovel through to get anything done
<SiFuh>
It says some of those files were modified 18 years ago.
<SiFuh>
Ahh. nevermind. I see what has happened
<remiliascarlet>
ppetrov^: GTK2 was peak GTK IMO.
<remiliascarlet>
I worked with GTK2 and GTK3, and GTK2 was so fun to develop with. And then GTK3 came along, and it was such a pain!
<ppetrov^>
remiliascarlet, I can bitch about GTK3 for hours... people here probably don't want to hear the same stuff over and over again
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: "people here" now includes nekobit, who might be interested in hearing your thoughts on CRUX compared to Slackware.
<ppetrov^>
heh, sure I'm open for a chat
<SiFuh>
I want to read ppetrov^ ripping into GTK :-P
<ppetrov^>
SiFuh, let me get in the right mood first
<ppetrov^>
maybe I'll write a blogpost and refer to it
<SiFuh>
^_^
<farkuhar>
nekobit was particularly interested in the possibility of binary package management as described in FS#1410. As someone who has packaged for both CRUX and Slackware, ppetrov^s opinion would be very welcome in the discussion.
<SiFuh>
Hehe, everytime farkuhar posts an FS# I think to myself. For fuck sake, what fucking shit do I have to click on now. Haha
<SiFuh>
Then I realised FS is subliminally telling me to curse ;-)
<farkuhar>
At least ppetrov^ admits ignorance rather than immediately inferring "passive aggressive" intent, as nekobit did when I suggested "join Flyspray and leave a comment"
<ppetrov^>
thanks, farkuhar. I'll read it carefully later
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Must have missed that when I was sleeping for a few moments
<ppetrov^>
farkuhar, I have no problem to say I don't know something. Usually I prefer not to bother people and fins out myself, but sometimes I just don't want to bother
<ppetrov^>
myself
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<ppetrov^>
k, gotta go. latez
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<SiFuh>
Damn! Wanted to read a GTK rant
<farkuhar>
He said he'd "write a blogpost and refer to it". Maybe that's easier to accomplish without the distractions of IRC.
<SiFuh>
If the finally result is good enough, we should convince him to write one about the Linux Kernel and one about KDE and one about systemd and so on.
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: Hahahahahaha
<SiFuh>
Then put them all into a book and get it published then he can retire as a millionaire ranter
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<remiliascarlet>
I wonder how CRUX would fare on a PinePhone.
<SiFuh>
Pretty bad without the GSM modem firmware ;-)
<SiFuh>
I and many others would love the see an OpenBSD phone
<SiFuh>
pf must be compulsary ;-)
<SiFuh>
All my phones that are android have firewalls
<SiFuh>
Oh not sure if you guys know yet, but solid state batteries are being used in some China phones so no more explosions
<remiliascarlet>
I actually compiled on that same phone before, although they're all small scale.
<disapper3nce>
SiFuh: mine is at 512G and I have to tv series.
<SiFuh>
disapper3nce: Yes, mine is called MUCORMYCOSIS. It is 8 TB and holds all my music, movies and TV series. MUCORMYCOSIS staarts with M so that means multimedia.
<SiFuh>
I have another 8 TB named DIPYLIDIUM. It starts with D so that is where all my data is.
<SiFuh>
And before I came to Asia, I backed up everything onto LTO5 tape cartridges
<disapper3nce>
I do have few large hdds for storage, but carrying it around is unrealistic.
<SiFuh>
Yeah, I agree. If you do want to carry them around, there is actually a USB drive I recommend
<SiFuh>
Corsair Flash Survivor
<disapper3nce>
they do have portable hdd cases. I might look into that also.
<disapper3nce>
satas in china is alot cheaper than usb drives tbh
<SiFuh>
disapper3nce: for the cases I recommend ugreen from China
<remiliascarlet>
Just make sure they won't just explode.
<disapper3nce>
lol, the only thing that I've bought from ugreen is a dp to hdmi cable
<SiFuh>
I ordered a 4.3" andro phone from China the moment I heard they had solid state batteries. I also orded a 10" tablet for my GPS in the truck. It is also solid state
<disapper3nce>
they are probably the most reliable company in china
<SiFuh>
I haven't seen junk from ugreen yet. But it is Chinese. There must be some junk that they produce
<ukky>
remiliascarlet: It seems there will be no more MIPS arch development, according to Wiki. The company switched to RISC-V arch.
<disapper3nce>
SiFuh: the chinese manufacture quality increased a lot in recent years. However, they still produce junk.
<SiFuh>
disapper3nce: Reminds me of a racist joke about Chinese people I heard when I was living in Kyrgyzstan. 'Chinese will eat everything that moves. If it doesn't move, they move it then they can eat it."
<SiFuh>
ukky: I want to see if the Russians can produce a RISC-V CPU higher than 32bits
<disapper3nce>
SiFuh: I remembered that chinese companies replicated a shitty version of tesla, and it caused multiple car accidents.
<disapper3nce>
huawei is even producing cars.
<SiFuh>
disapper3nce: That's because it is illegal to posses guns in China so the replica's weren't afraid to plow down citizens
<SiFuh>
The Huawei phones are pretty good too.
<ukky>
SiFuh: Russians cannot make 8086 nowdays
<SiFuh>
Why would they bother? 8086 was cheap garbage from the start
<SiFuh>
Alpha and Sparc were way superior
<ukky>
That was their tech limit
<SiFuh>
Russians and Germans had/have some of the best tech in the world
<ukky>
Are you kidding? Russian tech is oxymoron
<SiFuh>
Not kidding. Very not kidding.
<disapper3nce>
ukky: probably in weapon manufacturing
<SiFuh>
They had some of the best radio tech ever made
<SiFuh>
Do you know how hard it is to get Germanium Crystal Diodes in Australia these days?
<SiFuh>
Same with Geiger-Muller tubes. The best shit is from Japan or Russia
<ukky>
Russian weapons is also oxymoron. But they can build a lot of obsolete weapons.
<SiFuh>
ukky: I will politely disagree and then ask ppetrov^ to write a rant about it in a blog somewhere for his upcomming book.
lavaball has joined #crux
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: HOLY SHITAKE MUSHROOMS. I just clicked Eurobeat and all the plants in my garden just wilted.
<remiliascarlet>
What do you mean?
<SiFuh>
Going to apolgize to them
<SiFuh>
I searched Eurobeat online because I had never heard of it and now I wish I had never heard of it.
<SiFuh>
It reminds me of Sebastian Bach from Skidrow trying to rap on Cocaine to techno music with an orchestra
<SiFuh>
Goodbye Japan - Odyssey Eurobeat
ppetrov^ has joined #crux
<remiliascarlet>
I tend to like music with a high BPM rate in general, because I tend to hear those a lot in rhythm games.
<remiliascarlet>
It's significantly more challenging compared to the more "boring" songs.
<SiFuh>
Understood
<SiFuh>
I use to like training to Liu Kang vs Reptile from Mortal Kombat
<remiliascarlet>
Oh, seems like compiling Monero GUI Wallet with just "make release" make the compilation more stable.
<remiliascarlet>
And I got into rhythm games because of all the Touhou and Vocaloid songs they always have.
<remiliascarlet>
Vocaloid is a very popular text to vocals program that users of Nico Nico Douga have been using a lot to produce an abundance of songs since 2006, and they still use it to this day.
<SiFuh>
More popular than GTO?
<remiliascarlet>
GTO?
<SiFuh>
Great'a Teacher Onuzuka
<SiFuh>
GTO was popular here in Malaysia back in the day.
<remiliascarlet>
I don't know, I never measured that.
<remiliascarlet>
I do know that there's a constant flow of new Vocaloid songs.
<SiFuh>
It was Manga then a drama series then another drama series. Neither matched the Manga but the 2003 (If I recall) was the better of the drama
<remiliascarlet>
Makes sense.
<remiliascarlet>
Drama and anime are typically just advertisement material for the manga or video game (depending on which one is the source material).
<nekobit>
oh heh, yeah for some reason i read your message as passive aggressive at first, im new here so dont know what to expect from communities, esp when i get hardballed into an argument about the linux kernel...
<nekobit>
SiFuh: you shouldve listened to my rants from when i actually did KDE development for a little bit
<nekobit>
i shifted through pretty much all the code and helped myself not to puke
<nekobit>
ppetrov^: gtk fucked up everything, yeah :(
<nekobit>
for xfce
<nekobit>
farkuhar: i was really interested in taking an approach that all the major bsd's alongside void linux do regarding binaries
<nekobit>
for me, source package support first, binary second
<ppetrov^>
nekobit, I am stubborn enough to maintain my own ports for xfce 4.12, the last gtk2 version of the desktop
<ppetrov^>
4.14 was an abomination of mixed apps gtk2/gtk3
<nekobit>
i work on EFL sometimes where we always rant about GTK and whatever the hell goes on over there
<nekobit>
but efl has its own problems too, so im working with a dev on a new gui library cleaning up all of EFLs crust
<nekobit>
but that will take considerable time
<nekobit>
and a major focus on binding and abstracting the theming concept (but have an official lua theme script) which is what EFL does so incredibly
<ppetrov^>
efl? from Enlightenment project?
<nekobit>
yeah
<ppetrov^>
was a beautiful desktop
<ppetrov^>
too bad i hate dark themes
<nekobit>
i dont like the flat one that there is now, nor does raster the main dev, he just tried to "appeal"
<nekobit>
but that flat one lets you set color schemes
<ppetrov^>
oh boy
<ppetrov^>
flad design is a horrible trend
<ppetrov^>
there goes another rant from my side
<ppetrov^>
long story short: i want to know what is fucking clickable and what's not
<nekobit>
im mixed, but pure flat is atrocious, esp how E does it, even raster doesnt like it, and it DOES have that "clickable" issue too and i complained about it
<ppetrov^>
if a weather app need a cloud picture, just fucking use one, don't give me some shapeless blob
<ppetrov^>
:D
<nekobit>
now, hear me out, im a huge fan of how the waves have cooled nowadays in the design world, weve blended flat and that "aero" theme style, and mixed in shadows for depth and all sorts of things so it doesnt look like a literal childrens toy
<nekobit>
and tbh, flat was cool in the 90's :^)
<ppetrov^>
nekobit, yes, in the times of windows 3.11
<nekobit>
we started mostly flat with some lifting, then we went pure aero, then back to pure flat, then we found balance again
<nekobit>
x11 and plan9 too!
<nekobit>
when i create a window manager using our new toolkit, it wont be like E, nor will Ewm have a dock and stuff or file manager embedded.... it will instead just be a very powerful "modern" window manager and i have a paper with some ideas jotted
<nekobit>
larger focus on traditional unix window management
<nekobit>
the dock/panel will come later or it might not even exist
<ppetrov^>
any working name of the project?
<nekobit>
Fission
<nekobit>
huge focus on having *no* main library, allowing for creative binding to "modern" languages, even doing stuff like async and handling event loop on your own
<nekobit>
but we will have an official C api to begin with on top of our pseudo (C) api
<nekobit>
its kind of like opengl to a weird degree, you get all the functions you need, then you implement an abstraction with it
<nekobit>
we will have an official C abstraction on top of that, but our focus is documentation too (some EFL struggled at), meaning that internal C api is documented to help people bind to new languages
<nekobit>
this decision is because EFL is used by samsung and ive heard stories about how terrible samsung is with working with E... turns out in reality, Samsung programmers are too retarded for C :^)
<nekobit>
so i want to bind to some newer, simpler languages, like Zig, Rust, C++ and the sorts, without having to depend on a "friendly" C api like how everyone else does it
<SiFuh>
nekobit: Here you can be you, it livens up life as it should be
<nekobit>
hmm?
<SiFuh>
I think nekobit and ppetrov^ should write the rant together
<nekobit>
i can be me in other places too :)
<SiFuh>
And banned in seconds
<nekobit>
i would imagine a place like this would use Rizon honestly, libera chat has some surprisingly strict rules, 'long as they dont know
<nekobit>
i mean yeah idc if you say retard but some projects are anal about that language, i respect because some try to be professional
<nekobit>
but i hate professionalism in foss
<SiFuh>
Professionalism as in money making?
<nekobit>
professionalism as in .. "looking" professional
<SiFuh>
Or professionalism as in an expert
<nekobit>
at KDE it was all like that
<nekobit>
i didnt really feel like i got along with the kde devs too well because they were really tight about stuff
<nekobit>
but kde is funny too, like having a "KDE Eco" project, loookooool
<ppetrov^>
SiFuh, I will write it first, then send the draft to nekobit for comments and edition
<nekobit>
a rant on gtk?
<SiFuh>
When I dorve a Taxi. Some would comment about something unprofessional that I had done, like rolling through a stop sign. I'd inform them "A professional means they make money. It doesn't mean they are actually good at it"
<nekobit>
case in point
<nekobit>
its more like maintaining bullshit "work rules" if anything
<nekobit>
thats how foss projects are these days too, its sad
<SiFuh>
nekobit: 100% true
<nekobit>
pull request culture, github, centralization, etc. is becoming sadly more apparent
<SiFuh>
Can you imagine if CRUX had strict rules and banned anyone that insulted an OP?
<SiFuh>
The user base would be dead
<nekobit>
i imagined that if i joined here tbh, most libera chat channels kind of live like that
<nekobit>
chatting is a waste of time, people who heavily moderate those waste their timr
<nekobit>
even more
<SiFuh>
Back in the day you'd be banned in a Thai IRC channel for saying the workd 'suck'
<SiFuh>
That was the moment I exploded and I hunted down every channel op with scripts. I physically met them in real life and abused the shit out of them.
<nekobit>
IRC nowadays, especially in high profile "generic" channels, ESPECIALLY on libera, is full of these reddit "oldhead" people larping about how discord is horrible (they all use it) and windows=bad linux=good shit
<SiFuh>
I got banned from saying something like, "I bought a thick shake from McDonalds and it was so thick, I had trouble sucking it up through a straw"
<nekobit>
something something distro wars editor wars memes, funny xfce comics, and shit i found funny when i first learned about *NIX in general
<SiFuh>
So yeah, I flew to Thailand and hunted all the operators down
<nekobit>
lawl
<SiFuh>
It's not the first time I flew to another country to beat or teach someone
<SiFuh>
IRC needs to be lawless
<nekobit>
irc used to be a lot more lawless than it is now (source: my ass, please back me up here)
<SiFuh>
I grew up on IRC
<SiFuh>
I know exactly and can validate as a source
<nekobit>
ive just prodded around old irc logs out of curiosity and esp some older servers and they definitely were a lot more off the hinges and a more wild west if anything
<nekobit>
libera feels like a prison
<SiFuh>
I have logs for all my channels including this one that begin around the late 90's
<nekobit>
and i mean it when i say that if a libera op joined in here it would be an kline for you
<SiFuh>
CRUX was around 2001
<SiFuh>
And I'd fly to his home and break his fingers
<nekobit>
i used to be in a small wild channel and someone snitched and an op joined
<nekobit>
then they started being obnoxious and we just kinda trolled and acted like a generic old irc channel talking about technology and fun things, but all the fun got sucked out IMMEDIATELY
<SiFuh>
I like how CRUX, OpenBSD and other channels have a develop channel and a talk shit channel
<nekobit>
wheres the obsd one?
<SiFuh>
I like talk shit channels because I can abuse farkuhar and he doesn't cry about it :-P
<SiFuh>
#openbsd-social
<SiFuh>
It's dead too
<SiFuh>
You could fart and Kratoa would erupt and no one would wake
<nekobit>
half of liberas ops have pronouns listed and mastodon accounts in their ident rofl
<SiFuh>
I guess I will change from breaking to buying a meat cleaver
<ukky>
SiFuh: that's because nobody wants their fingers broken
<SiFuh>
:-P
<nekobit>
but freenode was "general purpose" to an extent iirc, then libera went way more technology focused
<SiFuh>
There was a guy called NETBSD that banned me from #SMD and I remember the day I met him and I remember the day he unbanned me :-P The year was 2001 and I flew to Khon Kaen and met him at MK in Oasis plaza (Now called Tukcom)!
<SiFuh>
I didn't know who he was but my friend said "Hey, that's NETBSD"
<SiFuh>
If someone said to me "My pronouns.." I would turn my back and walk away.
<nekobit>
hrt took over nerd communities like crack took over black neighborhoods in the 80s man
<SiFuh>
I like good crack
<SiFuh>
What is hrt?
<nekobit>
hormone replacement therapy
<SiFuh>
They are turning the friggin' frogs gay!
<SiFuh>
That stuff?
<nekobit>
lol yeah
<SiFuh>
Actually, I am not sure your age but this is a fact. I have seen it myself
<SiFuh>
Since the 70's I have seen what corporations for profit have done to this planet
<nekobit>
18, you'd be surprised, im just young man.
<SiFuh>
Don't worry though, you are the problem, because you breath too much oxygen and expel too much carbon.
<nekobit>
yeah its because i dont enable power saving utilities on windows 11 that im the problem with this earth
<SiFuh>
I don't know how anyone (Yes you farkuhar) can treat any of this shit seriously
<SiFuh>
Hahaha Watch him ban me :-)
<nekobit>
its pretty obvious that because i drive a gas powered car im the problem
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: How ban you? You're the one who had op status in this channel a few days ago.
<nekobit>
farkuhar: just curious if you saw my response on what i was motivated by, and if anything what i want to replicate regarding this
<nekobit>
ill create a bug and gitea account this evening hopefully after work
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: Links to the latest commits have been added on the OrphanedPorts page. thanks for the suggestion.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Hahaha
<ppetrov^>
farkuhar, that's really useful, thanks so much
<ppetrov^>
it's impressive, the responsiveness and dynamics we see here
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: Because we are alive and well and not dead
<farkuhar>
nekobit: I got your response. It will be interesting to see how the team responds to a renewed interest in binary packages.
<SiFuh>
Happy thanks giving by the way to all you Yakees
<nekobit>
was yesterday!! thank you
<SiFuh>
So jealous that you guys are/were eating Turkey.
<SiFuh>
Best poultry ever. It is actually my most favorite meat
<nekobit>
i also have a new, but strange look at distros, i feel like anyone interested in source based would really use Gentoo these days, even if its a complex mess sometimes portage is incredibly flexible. they say you have to really sell yourself these days, no?
<nekobit>
and i loved gentoo, but i did not like how rolling release by nature it was and how slow portage could be, but some people dont mind that much
<nekobit>
Ha, i remember being 14 in a literal garage spending a couple nights installing it on some a laptop, ending with XFCE, then 2 days later installing freebsd
<ukky>
nekobit: I recently switched to CRUX, after using Gentoo for 10 years
<nekobit>
its understable
<nekobit>
gentoo has a pretty rapid pace, but damn even portage was as slow as compiling alone
<nekobit>
its powerful but i hardly really used its use flags than i couldve, and sometimes things broke
<ppetrov^>
nekobit, what do you mean by Portage being "slow"?
<SiFuh>
Gentoo portage writers did a fscking amazing job though
<ppetrov^>
slow to respond, slow to load deps?
<nekobit>
but its monumental efforts to ensure it all works is incredible, as SiFuh said
<SiFuh>
It's just damned amazing
<nekobit>
nothing against gentoo, just dont feel like aping around with it anymore now that i mostly use openbsd
<SiFuh>
I admire it a lot
<nekobit>
same
<nekobit>
ppetrov^: portage can be quite slow, sometimes i run an update command to fail and have to sit there only for nothing to return, dependency conflicts were annoying because i sometimes had some software from ~amd64
<SiFuh>
I did install gento though to see if I'd commit suicide or at least try to and that didn't happen
<nekobit>
dependency conflicts happened more often when major things happened
<nekobit>
i didnt feel like putting up with it and put debian on
<nekobit>
it is much like maintaining an old car sometimes
<nekobit>
old car with a great engine
<SiFuh>
Hey! Leave my truck alone
<SiFuh>
My truck is old, over 30 years old and has a 1JZ Toyota engine in it ;-)
<ppetrov^>
nekobit, so how do you feel about CRUX in comparison? you do need to do your own maintaining
<nekobit>
i had to compile a few things on my own which i can package later
<nekobit>
but overall prt-get was pretty magic
<nekobit>
gentoo's maintenance involved lots of frustration, portage is TOO powerful for a mere mortal like me
<nekobit>
i loved recompiling certain things with some debug flags ticked
<nekobit>
thats why i love source based
<nekobit>
i esp love the mixed approach, and i want to see it in more than just void linux
<nekobit>
some people dont need to compile every little thing, gentoo does "-bin" packages, but imho its a bit of a hack, no?
<ppetrov^>
well, I never used Gentoo, so it's interesting to read you
<ppetrov^>
what attracted me to CRUX was the simplicity and the fact that you can read the whole handbook in a matter of hour or two
<nekobit>
use flags were incredible, but sometimes i believe they were "not truly needed" except for major cases like wayland/x11, audio libraries
<nekobit>
i love tweaking things but i didnt have the time to tweak lots of stuff and then put up with conflicts involving those tweaks
<nekobit>
but big use flags have conflicts later down the road
<ppetrov^>
nekobit, I have tried compiling the same program with default flags and "native"
<ppetrov^>
the program would run for couple of days, calculating evolution on a gene. The native run completed couple of hours faster
<SiFuh>
I liked Gentoo, I just didn't like the fact I was too stupid to know what everything means.
<SiFuh>
Right, going to buy the Panhard Rod Bar For Toyota Land Cruiser HZJ FZJ VDJ GRJ 70 76 71 79 78 and attempt to install it on my truck
<SiFuh>
My truck is an RJ70 with a 2" lift and everything is custom .
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: thanks for the exercise in going through the OrphanedPorts page. I almost forgot that portaudio had been dropped from contrib, and needed to be resurrected as a dependency of tenacity.
<SiFuh>
So it will be a over a 100 dollar mistake if it fails
<ppetrov^>
farkuhar, I think it's a very good idea to list what's been dropped and provide an easy to follow link to the port, so users don't start from scratch
<ppetrov^>
maybe make a "ports cemetery" section?
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: unmaintained?
<SiFuh>
"ports cemetery" sounds freaking cool though
<ppetrov^>
yes, like Stephen king's "Pets cemetery"
<SiFuh>
Hahaha shit, I should have known that
<ppetrov^>
farkuhar, there's no link to pango-compat that still needs adoption. But I suppose, if someone wants to take over maintenance, they'd dig it up
<ppetrov^>
also, are the dropped ports only from opt/ or there's stuff from contrib/?
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: pango-compat is in opt. All the rest were dropped from contrib, in some cases after having been moved from opt.
<farkuhar>
Because it's not permitted to have an opt port depending on a contrib port, we had to leave pango-compat in opt, but with nobody listed as Maintainer.
<ppetrov^>
ah, i see
<ppetrov^>
pidgin was also dropped but i don't see it there
<ppetrov^>
not a big deal
<farkuhar>
not intending to give any more ammunition to the haters of gtk{3,4} and bloated web browsers, but ever since the libxml2 update I keep running into build errors with webkitgtk. All the other dependents of libxml2 are rebuilding just fine. Hopefully the upstream devs will come up with a patch soon, like they did for libsoup.
<ukky>
random build errors?
<ppetrov^>
when i hear gtk3, i promise i'll behave from now on
<ppetrov^>
:)
<farkuhar>
ukky: here's the tail of my latest build log, which led me to blame libxml2 for the breakage. http://ix.io/4Mm1
<farkuhar>
For what it's worth, the timestamp of my last successful webkitgtk package is a few days before the timestamp of the libxml2 package.
<ukky>
The fix could be done, as the error is just "_xmlError *" vs "_xmlError const *"
<ukky>
You can add temporarily '-fpermissive' until upstream fixes the issue
<ukky>
Not sure if it fixes the build, but I would try using that flag
<farkuhar>
It's been 4 days since the creator of the gitlab issue #622 promised to "handle the change in the WebKit side", so there should be an upstream fix coming soon.