jaeger changed the topic of #crux to: CRUX 3.7 | Homepage: https://crux.nu/ | Ports: https://crux.nu/portdb/ https://crux.ninja/portdb/ | Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/crux/
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<remiliascarlet> disapper3nce: Creating a distro isn't hard compared to maintaining it.
<remiliascarlet> You're responsible for providing a large enough software repository, having multiple mirrors of that, be on top of the latest versions of each package that gets available, keep your documentation up to date, and so much more.
<remiliascarlet> The most annoying thing to an end user trying to install a source-based distro is outdated (or lack of) documentation.
<brian|lfs> ah I don't know still trying to create mine lol
<remiliascarlet> Artix: "doas pacman -R sudo" > "NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! YOU CAN'T DO THAT!!!! ALL THOSE PACKAGES DEPEND ON IT!!!!!" Crux: "doas prt-get remove sudo" > "As you wish."
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<brian|lfs> why would everything depend on sudo on archlinux that doesn't sound very secure
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<SiFuh> sudo needs a complete re-write or to be entirely replaced with opendoas
<remiliascarlet> Because Arch has been turning into yet another normie friendly distro, and normies tend to make bad decisions.
<remiliascarlet> Manjaro got popular, then people started noticing how much Manjaro sucks, but refused to leave the AUR behind, so they went to Arch and Artix, now they're doing everything to accomodate them.
<remiliascarlet> At least, that's my conspiracy theory.
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<ppetrov^> remiliascarlet, what's a 'normie' distro?
<SiFuh> Ubuntu :-P
<SiFuh> Knoppix
<SiFuh> I myself would define it as a distro that tells you what to do because you don't know how to do it. Often full of bloatware and automated tasks to make things appear more simple for the user.
<ppetrov^> mhm
<ppetrov^> well, Arch is still not like that, although a bunch of wannabe "hacker" teens use it
<SiFuh> I personally felt like my system was dirty, unclean, messy, not in order when I was messing around with Arch
<SiFuh> Then was suprised when they lazily added systemd
<ppetrov^> so it all went downhill since that
<ppetrov^> interesting thread
<SiFuh> I have a friend in Colombia that has been an Arch Linux user since pretty much day one. Maybe a year ago he switched to Artix so he could get out of using systemd. Not sure what his reasons were.
<ppetrov^> well, getting away from systemd?
<SiFuh> I mean the reasons why after all this time of using systemd did he want to stop using it.
<ppetrov^> ah... maybe it bit him too bad?
<SiFuh> I'll ask him tonight when he wakes up
<ppetrov^> have you tried Artix?
<ppetrov^> i am kinda curious about it, but dount I'll have the time
<SiFuh> Yes
<remiliascarlet> ppetrov^: All those distro's that cater to Windows and/or Mac users.
<remiliascarlet> Or rather "a wider audience", which is just code word for "dumb it down and/or censor it to the lowest common denomination".
<remiliascarlet> s/denomination/denominator
<remiliascarlet> ppetrov^: "well, getting away from systemd?" CRUX never adopted it.
<ppetrov^> remiliascarlet, yep
<remiliascarlet> OpenAI: "Sam Altman CEO, you're fired!" Microsoft a few days later: "Hey Sam Altman, wanna lead our AI department, which is OpenAI?"
<remiliascarlet> If I think about it, USA seems to be the only country among the first world countries where employers can just spontaneously fire you, or even fire you without even letting you know.
<remiliascarlet> In every other country, this would be considered a criminal act.
<SiFuh> remiliascarlet: I often thought about that as well
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<remiliascarlet> I was originally going to write a comment, but I'll let you guys make up your own mind on this one: https://media.infosec.exchange/infosec.exchange/media_attachments/files/111/440/264/447/436/942/original/cf6e126bcfd66fc2.jpg
<SiFuh> ppetrov^: "No systemd and like arch. For the good or for the worst i am not totally sure, seems somewhat a better option"
<SiFuh> My friend replied to why he switched
<ppetrov^> SiFuh, interesting. Thanks
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<SiFuh> ppetrov^: Yeah, I guess he doesn't really know ;-)
<farkuhar> The aforementioned GhostBSD user, who gave up in frustration after an update broke things, ended up installing BunsenLabs on his ThinkPad x230. He rationalized the decision this way: "a simple/clean system that does not use rolling release (I prefer LTS style releases over rolling or edge releases)"
<farkuhar> echoing remiliascarlet's comment about maintaining a distro being more difficult than the initial creation. If you don't insist on rolling release, you can save yourself some maintenance work.
<remiliascarlet> farkuhar: My experience with running any FreeBSD-based system as a laptop OS is that I can't get it out of sleep at all once I open the lid, and on some ThinkPad models the WiFi outright refuses to work too. So I rather recommend OpenBSD on laptops.
<remiliascarlet> Also, frozen release distro's require maintaining as well, it's just that the "testing" or "dev" or whatever other branch is technically a "rolling release", so you will still need to keep your repo's fresh.
<remiliascarlet> Or do it the Void Linux way, where the community submits updated Makefiles, and the Void Linux team merges it whenever they feel like doing so, which is commonly between in a few months and never.
<remiliascarlet> And if you're politically more right leaning, they will even kick you out of their IRC channel, mailing list, or wherever else you're on.
<remiliascarlet> And by "more right leaning", I mean "even a slightly bit more right than Joseph Stallin".
<remiliascarlet> Speaking of maintaining packages, can't the CRUX team ship the binary versions of LLVM like how they do with the Rust compiler? Compiling LLVM on a Core 2 Duo takes days!
<SiFuh> Wasn't Stalin full on super far left, so if I was slightly a bit right of Stalin, that would mean standed left wing, centraism, right and far right?
<remiliascarlet> That's the point, yes.
<SiFuh> Heh
<SiFuh> Now my room smells of fresh paint and that is worse than actually painting with is something really hae doing.
<ppetrov^> remiliascarlet, you can build packages on another machine and set up a PKG repo for the lappy using CRUX
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<remiliascarlet> ppetrov^: But then I need to compile on both.
<ppetrov^> no, you compile on the fast one and instal the ready packages with pkg-get on the lapy
<remiliascarlet> There is no pkg-get.
<ppetrov^> it's in opt
<remiliascarlet> Oh, didn't know that.
<ppetrov^> it's pretty neat, just make sure you use revdep, because your packages most likely also linked on something more than what's listed as dependencies (e.g. optional deps)
<remiliascarlet> How did I not know that? Looks like a total life saver!
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<ppetrov^> it is
<ppetrov^> and you know a out these, right: https://crux.nu/Wiki/PrtUtils
<remiliascarlet> So prt-get is for installing from source like on Gentoo, while pkg-get is for installing binaries like on the other big distro's?
<SiFuh> pkgadd does both :-)
<SiFuh> err pkgmk pkgadd
<remiliascarlet> Too many package managers!
<ppetrov^> not really
<ppetrov^> just enough
<SiFuh> But on the bright side, they don't conflict with eachother
<remiliascarlet> "Did you know that Linux has 115 mutually incompatible package managers?" "That's ridiculous, we need 1 universal package managers for all, we call it Flatpak!" A few weeks later: "Did you know that Linux has 116 mutually incompatible package managers?"
<SiFuh> remiliascarlet: I actually aliased pkgadd to pkg_add because it was annoying me coming from OpenBSD's world
<remiliascarlet> I would rather alias it the other way around, since on JP keybards the underbar key is located at the most annoying location imaginable.
<remiliascarlet> Sucks even more if you use Windows or DOS, because that's the same key that's also a backslash.
<SiFuh> I have to switch to a US keyboard when using a Vietnamese keyboard just to get numbers ;-)
<remiliascarlet> Windows users don't even know they have a backslash on their keyboards, because Windows renders it as the yen sign.
<remiliascarlet> I believe the French and Belgian keyboards also require holding the shift key to get numbers.
<remiliascarlet> And Vietnam was a French colony, so it makes sense.
<SiFuh> We have characters up there. So if we use the shift key they become capital letters ;-)
<remiliascarlet> Why are there 2 tilde keys?
<cruxbot> [contrib.git/3.7]: xmlsec: rebuild against libxml 2.12.0
<SiFuh> remiliascarlet: there isn't
<SiFuh> The second one is a tone marker
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<SiFuh> Xin chào, bằng tiếng Việt từ Malaysia
<george^> ppetrov^: revdep with llvm update :-)
<george^> hi guys :-)
<ppetrov^> george^, i don't get it
<george^> ppetrov^: usually mesa needs rebuild after an llvm update
<george^> at least last time to me :-)
<cruxbot> [core.git/3.7]: readline: update to 8.2.7
<cruxbot> [core.git/3.7]: gettext: update to 0.22.4
<cruxbot> [opt.git/3.7]: iwd: update to 2.9
<remiliascarlet> I don't like LLVM for its massive size, and it having produced too many unnecessary programming languages.
<remiliascarlet> There are good languages made with it, but the vast majority just get forgotten about after the initial announcement.
<cruxbot> [xorg.git/3.7]: libdrm: update to 2.4.118
<george^> ok
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<Guest9824> remiliascarlet: interesting video on BSD vulnerabilities. have encountered a fair number of bugs on my NetBSD journey, none of which were vulnerabilities. from time to time it can be a bit stressing for kernel to dump when doing important work.. but meh, got used to it. still i do have huge respect to NetBSD community.
<Guest9824> still using it on multiple physical machines and even more virtual machines.
<joe9> any assembler recommendations? Gas, Nasm, Fasm? I seem to like At&T syntax over the intel syntax too.
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<cruxbot> [contrib.git/3.7]: dua-cli: 2.20.1 -> 2.20.2
<cruxbot> [contrib.git/3.7]: handbrake: 1.6.1 -> 1.7.0
<cruxbot> [contrib.git/3.7]: p5-image-exiftool: 12.69 -> 12.70
<cruxbot> [contrib.git/3.7]: luajit: 2.1.0-1694285958 -> 2.1.1700008891
<cruxbot> [contrib.git/3.7]: python3-pygments: new dependency: python3-hatchling
<cruxbot> [contrib.git/3.7]: sccache: 0.7.2 -> 0.7.3
<cruxbot> [opt.git/3.7]: c-ares: 1.22.0 -> 1.22.1
<cruxbot> [contrib.git/3.7]: python3-rpds-py: updated to version 0.13.1
<cruxbot> [contrib.git/3.7]: pv: updated to version 1.8.5
<cruxbot> [contrib.git/3.7]: containerd: updated to version 1.7.9
<cruxbot> [contrib.git/3.7]: docker-buildx: updated to version 0.12.0
<cruxbot> [opt.git/3.7]: thunderbird-bin: updated to version 115.4.3
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