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<char[m]>
I was just looking at spec for the + function, and it mentions that it might signal a arithmetic-error, while incf does not. When would + signal arithmetic-error?
<phoe>
(+ most-positive-long-float most-positive-long-float) likely causes one
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<char[m]>
Very cool! Interestingly, incf has the same behaviour, though it is absent from the spec. I guess it is just assumed that incf expands to use +.
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<pillton>
char[m]: It seems that the exceptional situation you speak of is not part of the "kinds of information" that may appear in a "Exceptional Situations" section (CLHS 1.4.4.10) since the error you speak of occurs when evaluating the macro expansion rather than during the invocation of the INCF macro function.
<pillton>
I may be misinterpreting 1.4.4.10.
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<pillton>
It also seems that references in the See Also section are relevant to an operator according to 1.4.4.17.
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<beach>
char[m]: Unfortunately, that are many things left unspecified in the standard. The WSCL project was created in an attempt to fill those gaps, at least when all major Common Lisp implementations agree on what to do.
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<jackdaniel>
therefore all implementations agreed to rock, and we strive ever since ;)
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<judabuda>
phoe: Hey, how do i stop hunchentoot?
<phoe>
judabuda: do you have a reference to the old acceptor that you have created?
<phoe>
if yes, you can call a stop function on it
<phoe>
if not, that's a pity - try to remember it somewhere, e.g. via DEFPARAMETER
<phoe>
(the next time, after you restart Lisp, that is)
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<_death>
looks cool
<phoe>
not complete yet, I'll make proper announcements once it's somewhat working
<phoe>
(at which point I'll move it away from phoe-trash too)
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<phoe>
an exercise in functional programming too since I'm trying to keep everything immutable - when implementing a complex set of rules, like of a board game with several add-ons, it's important for me to know that no mutation can occur and each game state should be independently testable
<_death>
yeah, that makes sense
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<pjb>
thuna`: you would design a directory hierarchy for your project to help you navigate the sources. But for this, you could also implement navigation tools in emacs (in that case, it wouldn't matter how the sources are stored, your emacs code would manage that for you).
<phoe>
which also means that I get to bend CLOS in funny ways to resolve all sorts of circular backreferences that are theoretically illegal in functional programs but handy to have in Lisp
<pjb>
thuna`: for example, you could instead have a subdirectory per module, and keep both the sources, the resources and the tests of a module in the same directory.
<pjb>
thuna`: that said, I use subdirectories such as specifications analysis design sources tests documentation for my project modules.
<pjb>
thuna`: it depends also on the size of your project. If it's a hello world, you can put everything in the same directory, it won't matter.
<thuna`>
pjb: I wanted to seperate src and test to have src/packages.lisp and test/packages.lisp
<pjb>
thuna`: if it's a world simulator, you may need something more structured.
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<pjb>
thuna`: good point.
<pjb>
(that's what I do too).
<pjb>
I also have separate asd for the module and for its tests. So we can load a system without loading the test system.
<_death>
phoe: I don't think there needs to be any issue with circularity.. while it may require modification of a structure, that structure can be a copy
<_death>
phoe: if it's too much to copy, a different data structure may work better
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<phoe>
_death: mostly when I copy the original I also need to copy the children so that they also point at the copy
<pjb>
you don't need to copy the children, if you don't mutate them.
<pjb>
you only need to copy the nodes you mutate.
<_death>
right, so this suggests an indirection, like separating the references
<phoe>
if node A contains a child B that points to its parent A, then after copying A into A' I want its child B' to point back at A', not at A
<pjb>
Well, when you work with immutable datastructure, you should avoid back pointers.
<pjb>
or circles in general.
<_death>
nodes hither, edges thither
<phoe>
yes, and here I explicitly use them for programming convenience
<phoe>
and I'm kind of curious how far I can go without tripping over my own heels
<phoe>
I'll find out in due time, I guess
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<phoe>
I have an army object that contains a list of tiles in that army, and then for each tile I also want to know which army it belongs to
<phoe>
one option is to make another external mapping between army and some sort of IDs like integers, and have each tile store that ID
<phoe>
another option I've found is a backpointer, plus some extra stuff to handle that circularity while copying
<pjb>
no, for immutable data structures, better use external mappings.
<pjb>
I assume you will be doing backtracking?
<phoe>
not really - just a reference from children to parent
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<_death>
so you can keep the directed graph on its own.. it needn't care about node representation.. indeed you can use explicit IDs or interned representations
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<pjb>
phoe: I don't mean backlinking. Backtracking, as in, computing a new state, and if no good, backing up to the previous state to compute another new state.
<pjb>
When the state is big and new state only differ in a small part, you would use an immutable data structure, where the new state is build by copying and changing only a few nodes.
<_death>
pjb: backtracking would be easy to implement if there are no side effects.. but probably inefficient too
<pjb>
For this you must avoid backlinking.
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<pjb>
Eg. in a tree, you will in general copy only O(depth(tree)) nodes.
<pjb>
ie O(log(number of nodes))
<phoe>
pjb: I know what you mean, and I won't be doing backtracking
<pjb>
ok
<phoe>
but, yes, I won't really be doing any stuff that involves a lot of copying - it's mostly convenience stuff like "if this army has any tiles that are not listing this army as their owner, copy them and assign the owner to be this army" which will happen at most once per game
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<phoe>
and this is possible because a set of tiles can be created elsewhere and only then assigned to an army, which will then need to "fix" the backlinks
<pjb>
ok
<phoe>
once that's done, there's no more fixups needed
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<thuna`>
Is it a good idea to have a (defconstant +empty+ (gensym)) to mark "empty" values
<beach>
If I understand what you want to do, that's when I often do (LIST NIL) to get a unique CONS cell.
<phoe>
thuna`: if you need some sort of internal unbound marker, then yes, you can do it this way
<phoe>
although I'd rather (make-symbol (symbol-name '#:empty))
<phoe>
because that would be a little bit more meaningful than #:G7263
<phoe>
or just, well, (defconstant +empty+ '#:empty)
<thuna`>
Would (eq +empty+ '#:empty) be true?
<phoe>
except then you also need to guard against redefining it, so (alexandria:define-constant +empty+ '#:empty :test #'string=)
<phoe>
thuna`: no
<thuna`>
Alright then, that works
<phoe>
symbols created via #: are never eq to any other ones
<phoe>
and the alexandria version will also not complain upon redefinition like DEFCONSTANT would
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<Josh_2>
I love it when emacs just crashes
<Josh_2>
Thank you supersave
<Josh_2>
For supersaving
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<Josh_2>
And again...
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<thuna`>
Is is possible to shuffle around/modify an array without creating a new one?
<thuna`>
array's elements*
<jackdaniel>
you may iterate over it and do it manually
<aeth>
almost every array/sequence function has a start/end so you don't have to create a subseq or displace
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<aeth>
alternatively, you can create a function that returns VALUEs and a corresponding DEFSETF on VALUEs
<aeth>
so you could e.g. (setf (foo a) (foo b))
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<Josh_2>
thuna`: using setf you can modify it
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<aeth>
If the question is literally about shuffling, then ROTATEF
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<pjb>
arrays are mutable.
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<Josh_2>
Am I allowed to do something like this (defmethod ... :around (..args..) (if (<some pred> (call-next-method)) (restart-case (error ...) (do-a-thing (c) (<fix things>) (call-next-method))))) ?
<Josh_2>
I am doing it in one place and it seems to be working, but I'm trying it somewhere else and I keep getting the condition "invalid number of arguments"
<Bike>
i don't think there is any restriction on how many times you call-next-method, though it's not often done
<Josh_2>
In both instances the same method is called?
<Josh_2>
well the same 'next method' is called?
<Bike>
should be
<Josh_2>
Alright :thumbsup:
<Josh_2>
Guess I gotta try and figure out whats going on. Unfortunately the stack trace is almost completely bare
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<Josh_2>
huh
<Josh_2>
I think I figured it out :facepalm:
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<Josh_2>
Yep
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<Josh_2>
Odd question but is there a tool that I can use to change the package name in all of my project files?
<Josh_2>
I used a sort of placeholder name and now I want to change it, but the project is pretty large and I'd rather not go through and change the (in-packages ..) manually
<Alfr>
rename-package?
* Alfr
ducks.
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<Josh_2>
Thanks :joy:
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<Bike>
i honestly just use sed for that.
<_death>
editor macros
<Josh_2>
I have no experience with sed
<Josh_2>
:(
<Josh_2>
But I'm sure I can figure it out
<_death>
or occur-edit-mode..
<Bike>
`sed -i 's/in-package #:foo/in-package #:bar/' *.lisp` or so
<Josh_2>
well
<Josh_2>
thats easy enough
<Josh_2>
Thanks Bike
<Josh_2>
On a different topic I have a reasonable sized project here where I have lots of global variables and I wish I had made them slots in a sort of "config" class :(
<Josh_2>
That way I could have multiple "instances" (difference configurations) running at once
<Josh_2>
Retroactively going through and changing to this system will be a pita
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<Josh_2>
Right now I load a config file and set global variables from these options in the file
<Josh_2>
with a config class I could have many config files, or I could receive configs from an API and have many instances running :sob:
<pjb>
global variables are also dynamic variables.
<Josh_2>
Yes I know
<pjb>
So you can define a function that binds them, before calling the rest of the program.
<Josh_2>
But if I made it a class then I would be able to create subclasses and specialize certain aspects of the program
<pjb>
If you fork a thread, be sure to put them in the initial-bindings of the thread.
<pjb>
Sure, but this will be a PITA to update the program :-)
<Josh_2>
I have like 10k SLOC or something I'd have to go change
<pjb>
Refactoring may be laborious but it's always a good thing.
<Josh_2>
And well I'm not so great at writing unit tests so who knows what I'll break :joy
<Josh_2>
:joy:
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<jcowan>
What would be some good use cases for macros with keyword arguments?
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<_death>
the usual use cases for keyword arguments.. there is the gotcha that if you're going to evaluate them you probably want to do so according to the order specified by the user
<aeth>
keyword arguments are also the only way to have forwards-and-backwards compatibility if macros' extension of the lambda list also work like functions
<aeth>
although you'd be tempted to mess with the syntax more and break compatibility
<aeth>
but allow-other-keys is powerful
<aeth>
as long as you don't rename variables or change the syntax (where the keyword lambda list goes) you get full compatibility
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<aeth>
jcowan: also consider e.g. implementing something like CL:LOOP with keywords instead of with syntax
<aeth>
clauses like (for x :from 0 :below 32) or (:for x :from 0 :below 32)
<aeth>
it's extensible because it takes arbitrary clauses and it's extensible because you can just add new keywords (e.g. maybe you only had :to initially but now you also support :below)
<jcowan>
_death: Sounds like you'd have to process the keywords yourself (using &rest rather than &key) in order to get the order.
<_death>
you can have both &rest and &key
<pjb>
aeth: you can rename variables, but you need to specify the keywords.
<aeth>
pjb: right, sorry. disadvantage: you can't rename the variables once you want it to be stable (unless you want to create two that do the same thing); advantage: you can add new options without needing to order them or to come up with some kind of LOOP-like language